RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict?

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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 8:30:40 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The emotional side of me hopes for a hate crime charge.

The logical side of me says that while those who recorded were wrong, they cannot be held responsible for the death of this student.

Thw whole idea of "hate crimes," troubles me. I do not think it is proper, nor Constitutional when some victims are given a different level of protection under the law.

I say charge them with the easiest applicable law for a criminal conviction, then let a civil jury decide what responsibility they bear in this tragic death.

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Post #: 21

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 8:55:52 PM

LuneRune

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Joined: 8/19/2008
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What they have to convince the jury of is that they would not have "dared people" to view the video and wouldnt have been just as motivated to say "my roommate is fucking an ugly chick, yay". That is about it in NJ, afaik.

It would not come close to meeting the standard of a Federal hate crime unless they knew it would drive him to suicide or other self destructive and violent act.

Yeah, you're right if that is all there is to it. I tend to think though that there is much more to it because there is a block of time in between his last two posts on the gay forum that he belonged to that suggests that the story did not end with the posting of the video. This kid went from sounding rational and reasonable to chucking himself off a bridge in a very, very short span of time. What could do that? What could someone say or threaten or do that could trigger that kind of anguish?

In the meantime I am rooting for the authortities who are investigating this, and really hope that they are able to piece together the last few hours of this young man's life and find the missing piece that will tell us why Tyler jumped.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 22

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 9:33:34 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What should be done? Try them as adults for whatever they can convict on and have that on their record. They'll pay for the rest of their lives.

Ummm......well......they are adults.

Are they? I dont know their ages nor the law in NJ regarding prosecuting as a juvenile vs adult. (And I doubt you did when you posted this.)

If you don't know anything about the story then why are you commenting on it?

They were both eighteen.

That makes them adults Willbeur, in New Jersey and every other state in the country.

But keep up the impressive work.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/2/2010 9:38:14 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 23

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 11:25:31 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What should be done? Try them as adults for whatever they can convict on and have that on their record. They'll pay for the rest of their lives.

Ummm......well......they are adults.

Are they? I dont know their ages nor the law in NJ regarding prosecuting as a juvenile vs adult. (And I doubt you did when you posted this.)

If you don't know anything about the story then why are you commenting on it?

They were both eighteen.

That makes them adults Willbeur, in New Jersey and every other state in the country.

But keep up the impressive work.

I see...so not knowing there ages means I dont know anything about the story. In that case you dont know anything about anything youve ever posted on, because you sure as hell dont know everything about anything.

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Post #: 24

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 4:16:55 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
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If convicted the 2 defendents should have the maximum sentence allowed for in New Jersey law regarding invasion of privacy.

Lawmaker seeks to stiffen invasion of privacy laws after Rutgers case
Friday, October 1, 2010 LAST UPDATED: FRIDAY OCTOBER 1, 2010, 5:17 PM
BY MATT FRIEDMAN

A state lawmaker wants to increase the penalty for invasion of privacy following the suicide of Tyler Clementi, a Rutgers student whose roommate broadcast his sexual encounter with another man on the internet.

Clementi’s roommate, Dharun Ravi, and Ravi’s friend, Molly Wei, have been charged with invasion of privacy.

Under New Jersey's invasion-of-privacy laws, it is a fourth-degree crime to collect or view images depicting nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that person's consent, the prosecutor said. It is a third-degree crime to transmit or distribute the images.

If the students are convicted on a third-degree offense, they could each face up to five years in prison under state law. Conviction on a fourth-degree crime could lead to probation or up to 18 months in prison.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/100110_Lawmaker_seeks_to_stiffen_invasion_of_privacy_laws_after_Rutgers_case.html

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Post #: 25

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 4:43:54 AM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
Such a sad sad case. No winners only losers. What would you decide?

Nothing.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 26

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 12:38:12 PM

Hillwilliam

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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Unfortunately, the only thing they will be able to get them on will be invasion of privacy and unlawful recording. For any type of manslaughter or worse, they would have to prove that the recording led to the suicide. It appears, initially, to be a slam dunk but you have to remember that just because B happened after A does not mean that A caused B.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 27

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 3:32:58 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thw whole idea of "hate crimes," troubles me. I do not think it is proper, nor Constitutional when some victims are given a different level of protection under the law.

I say charge them with the easiest applicable law for a criminal conviction, then let a civil jury decide what responsibility they bear in this tragic death.

I`m stunned you think minorities shouldnt have some sort of protection from bullying.

If anything, charge them with manslaughter and let a jury decide. Its clear that their actions resulted in his suicide.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 28

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 3:40:36 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thw whole idea of "hate crimes," troubles me. I do not think it is proper, nor Constitutional when some victims are given a different level of protection under the law.

I say charge them with the easiest applicable law for a criminal conviction, then let a civil jury decide what responsibility they bear in this tragic death.

I`m stunned you think minorities shouldnt have some sort of protection from bullying.

If anything, charge them with manslaughter and let a jury decide. Its clear that their actions resulted in his suicide.

1) Why just minorities? Anyone can be bullied.
2) No, its far from clear that their actions resulted in his suicide. One act doesnt drive someone that far. so how do you apportion guilt between what may have been the final push, his own psychology, others who might have bullied him? I dont mind letting a jury decide, but youve convicted them already.

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Post #: 29

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 3:56:46 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

1) Why just minorities? Anyone can be bullied.
2) No, its far from clear that their actions resulted in his suicide. One act doesnt drive someone that far. so how do you apportion guilt between what may have been the final push, his own psychology, others who might have bullied him? I dont mind letting a jury decide, but youve convicted them already.

1) You`re wrong
2) see 1)

I would explain why but since its you I cant be arsed.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 30

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 3:58:30 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

1) Why just minorities? Anyone can be bullied.
2) No, its far from clear that their actions resulted in his suicide. One act doesnt drive someone that far. so how do you apportion guilt between what may have been the final push, his own psychology, others who might have bullied him? I dont mind letting a jury decide, but youve convicted them already.

1) You`re wrong
2) see 1)

I would explain why but since its you I cant be arsed.

Since you dont apparently understand what bullying is "go arse yourself"

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Hear the lark
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Post #: 31

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 4:17:30 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since you dont apparently understand what bullying is "go arse yourself"

Okay brains, firstly hiding a webcam in someones room, then streaming them having sex online, not once but twice, is bullying for sure.

Secondly, if you think that the lad concerned didnt kill himself due to this incident, even if there had been other stuff going on in his life, you are dumber than I thought you were.

Frankly I didnt think you could be any dumber but you have surpassed yourself.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 32

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 4:36:30 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since you dont apparently understand what bullying is "go arse yourself"

Okay brains, firstly hiding a webcam in someones room, then streaming them having sex online, not once but twice, is bullying for sure.

Secondly, if you think that the lad concerned didnt kill himself due to this incident, even if there had been other stuff going on in his life, you are dumber than I thought you were.

Frankly I didnt think you could be any dumber but you have surpassed yourself.

You surpassed all of the idiots on this board when you said that only minorities can be bullied.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 33

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:00:38 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You surpassed all of the idiots on this board when you said that only minorities can be bullied.

Except anyone who can read, and you are obviously not one of them, will clearly spot that isnt what I said.

quote:

I`m stunned you think minorities shouldnt have some sort of protection from bullying.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 34

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:02:25 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You surpassed all of the idiots on this board when you said that only minorities can be bullied.

Except anyone who can read, and you are obviously not one of them, will clearly spot that isnt what I said.

quote:

I`m stunned you think minorities shouldnt have some sort of protection from bullying.

If that isnt what you meant you wouldnt have qualified your original statement that way. 3rd grade English.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Post #: 35

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:03:56 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Gentlemen! Please do not bully one another. You know what the consequence might be: one bullied person to commit suicide and the other person being charged with manslaughter. That would deprive CM of two frequent posters...

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 36

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:04:56 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Gentlemen! Please do not bully one another. You know what the consequence might be: one bullied person to commit suicide and the other person being charged with manslaughter. That would deprive CM of two frequent posters...

He wouldnt even be competent at suicide.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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Post #: 37

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:11:16 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since you dont apparently understand what bullying is "go arse yourself"

Okay brains, firstly hiding a webcam in someones room, then streaming them having sex online, not once but twice, is bullying for sure.

Secondly, if you think that the lad concerned didnt kill himself due to this incident, even if there had been other stuff going on in his life, you are dumber than I thought you were.

Frankly I didnt think you could be any dumber but you have surpassed yourself.

You surpassed all of the idiots on this board when you said that only minorities can be bullied.

He came no where close to saying that,
you misread it. to make a bad point and screwed it up
I would suggest your english comprehension is the one that needs work

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 38

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:13:21 PM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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At least he is polite; it says so in his nick.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 39

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:20:58 PM

peacefulplace

Posts: 157
Joined: 8/22/2010
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I sentence the offenders to the horrifying, terrible guilt and grief that this young man's parents feel about this incident. That is my verdict. There could be nothing worse.

How dare anyone invade another's privacy when a crime is not being committed? What kind of parents raised the children that did this deed is what I want to know.

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(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 40

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