RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (Full Version)

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asyouwish72 -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 6:05:18 PM)

Just wanted to say thank you to Invictus, JohnWarren, Pollux, and the other debunkers on here. There's a lot of wild-eyed conspiracy theories floating around in regards to 9/11 (and the moon landing, the Kennedy assassination, Pearl Harbor, etc.) but they don't really hold up so well if folks stop and think. Thanks for doing your parts to set the record straight.




tineetude -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 6:16:39 PM)

Let me correct myself, Alex Jones is out of Austin Texas.
He has a few web sites   www.infowars.com     www.prisonplanet.com     I believe from either of those you can link up to his daily radio broadcast, pre recorded or live depending on your time zone. I tell you this man puts his life on the line everyday to tell the people the truth, the least we can do it have a listen. If you don't like what you hear, don't go back.




Rule -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 6:33:35 PM)

I cannot get access to those websites.
 
9/11 is a scam. Humanity is led by a tight rope around the balls, blindfolded and with their hands cuffed behind their back. Anybody who denies that either does not want to know the bad news, or is very gullible, or is part of the conspiracy.




mistoferin -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 6:45:51 PM)

This reply is to the thread itself and to no one in particular. I sit here reading this in sheer amazement. This is not the first, nor I am sure it will be the last time that I sit pondering just exactly how seemingly intelligent people can so easily be sucked into the latest propaganda bullshit. I've watched it happen time and time again.

I don't trust this government anymore than I can throw it...not because I believe every conspiracy theory that floats across the internet....but because I am a realist. But...I am certainly not going to forfeit my American citizenship any day soon as quite frankly...I do still believe in this country and am proud to be an American. For those who think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence somewhere, I remind you that the government does not stop those wishing to immigrate FROM the USofA.




Pavel -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 7:12:04 PM)

Having seen other governments, and a couple of other countries, I'd really be amused to see everyone who threatens to leave the states, actually do so, and then proceed to compain about their new adopted lands.  I'm rather a fan of just policeing up anyone who makes such statements, and shipping them to Quebec.  Then again that could just be bitterness directed at my ex (seriously, somthing popped up that was sorta kinda not to her likeing "oh I'm so moving to europe/canada/whatever").

I'm really unimpressed by the conspiracy set.  They fall all seem to fall into the typical mindset that if one part of a story does not jive to their satisfaction, the whole entire situation is rendered false.  Of course, by disbelieveing their theories, anything you say to counter their assertions is discarded out of hand, as clearly you're one of "them."   Ultimately, the  conspriacy set relies on encountering people  who know even less on the topic than themselves, to properly "educate" them in the "truth."

When approaching a truth, or reality, you must ask all the questions, of everyone involved.  If you hold the conspriacy set to the same standard of proof as they hold to the rest of the world, I would think you'd find them lacking.

If the men in black really were out to supress whatever gibberish people cared to put out on the net, there'd be a lot less wackjob websites, and a whole lot more disappeared people.  Of course, I've seen the effiency that the US government works at, and I imagine you'd have to sign the 132-4B (petition to kill paranoid person living in his mother's basement) form in triplicate, and then resubmit it four or five times because you didn't intial in the correct places.

Still, if you insist on believeing the government is lying, and it's actually all some evil plot, then I'll let you in on a secret.  Bert did it.  %@$^ing muppets.




Invictus754 -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 7:12:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tineetude
Let me correct myself, Alex Jones is out of Austin Texas.
He has a few web sites   www.infowars.com     www.prisonplanet.com     I believe from either of those you can link up to his daily radio broadcast, pre recorded or live depending on your time zone. I tell you this man puts his life on the line everyday to tell the people the truth, the least we can do it have a listen. If you don't like what you hear, don't go back.


How convenient that Alex Jones - just by chance, I am sure - SELLS every one of his videos for only $25.95 each. 

I can not believe that Americans are so uneducated that they will believe ANYONE'S word who has a website or radio show.  Do you pick up the tabloids in the supermarket and say, "OHMYGOD, THE BAT BOY IS REAL! HERE'S HIS PICTURE!" or "Look!  here is a picture of President Clinton shaking an Alien's hand!  Alien's are real, I tell you!"

Their justification that Thermite was used is that there was a yellow substance dripping in a video?  Hello, have you seen ANY molten metal?  It's so damn hot it turns colors!  Solid Gold melts at 1070 degrees (the fire was estimated at 1600 degrees) and IT drips yellow...how do you know that someone didn't have gold bar stashed up there and it melted?  Crap there are a thousand different things that could melt and turn yellow but just because it is insinuated it is Thermite, IT MUST BE TRUE!  Nothing up my sleeve...presto!  Instant cover up.

C'mon people, it doesn't take a Ph.D. degree in Chemistry to ask for PROOF...just ask them for it, instead of bowing to their INSINUATION of wrongdoing...
quote:


Three  Tape special only $54.00!
Five    Tape special only $90.00!
Seven Tape special only $126.00!
Nine   Tape special only $162.00!


Trust me, this guy doesn't believe this crap anymore than I do...but he is making a lotta money off people who like to think the government is hiding something.

...but remember:
quote:

For a very limited time only each additional copy (limit 5) you purchase of this incredible "Dark Secrets" & "Order of Death" Combo DVD is only $9.95! Thats 60% off each additional copy!

Don't be left out!  This special is only going on for a limited time! 




DelightMachine -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 7:31:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I cannot get access to those websites.

 
That's because THEY don't WANT you to have access.

quote:

 
9/11 is a scam. Humanity is led by a tight rope around the balls, blindfolded and with their hands cuffed behind their back. Anybody who denies that either does not want to know the bad news, or is very gullible, or is part of the conspiracy.

Psssst! Rule!
It's worse than you think. The deniers all know the truth -- but they're part of the conspiracy too!!!
In fact, everyone posting on this thread except me and you are all part of the conspiracy as well!! 
And .... wait just a minute, Rule. Where were you on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001? .... Ooooooh. I get it. Post about the conspiracy like you're not a part of it at all, eh? Very tricky. Veeeeeeery tricky. I'm on to you now.




UtopianRanger -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 7:35:22 PM)

quote:

Who says this is one of the most heavily survailed buildings in America?  Do you have a list?  I would guess there are more cameras in a private building like the Sears Tower where the owners of the building want to catch the employees stealing rather than the US Government who you insinuate 'surpressed' our air defense system. 


By the sheer nature of its name/mission and all that it encumbers, anyone would come to the logical conclusion that after the Murrah building was taken down, the Pentagon is/was among the most surveiled buildings in the country. I mean after all, isn't it logical to assume that the worlds greatest super power has its defense/war planning headquarters equipped with the best and most sophisticated video surveillance.  My guess is the information regarding the actual number of hidden and exposed surveillance cameras is absolutely classified data. Surely you don't have any evidence that suggests in wasn't one of the most heavily surveiled buildings?

There is no way for me to offer concrete proof that it was one of the most surveiled buildings in the country, however, we do know that government buildings --- of the particular importance -- like the Pentagon are ''lock stock'' with video surveillance.

So with that being said.... again I ask, where's all the footage? And why haven't we seen the corresponding video that was confiscated from private buildings from across the street? There is absolutely no reason not to air this video before the public. I'd sure like to see it, wouldn't you? And I'm not talking about the bodies.

quote:

Are you going to be the first US President to order a rocket attack on a private U.S. aircraft with hundreds of private U.S. citizens onboard?


Absolutely, if you consider all th pertinent facts. I could make a decent argument just by applying Spock's quote ''The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'' in my rebuttal to this part of your post.

quote:

The president only had minutes to hear about the first hit before the second aircraft hit the Twin Towers, and there is a LOT of airspace around NYC that has airplanes flying around.  Are you just going to start shooting all the big ones down at random?


I think you missed this part of my post. I was speaking with regard to the jet that hit the Pentagon.

Flight 77 left Dulles International Airport approximately ten minutes after the two World Trade Center-bound jets left Logan International Airport in Boston {Much farther away}which crashed at 8:45 and 9:05 am respectively. However, flight 77 didn't supposedly hit the Pentagon until almost an hour after the first WTC jet hit, even though it had a much shorter distance to travel to reach its intended target.

You don't think they knew something was up when they couldn't find that plane for almost an hour after the first one had already crashed into the towers? Now that doesn't make very much sense, does it?

By the way.... I know there are many here who disagree. But in your disagreement.....please don't resort to name calling or personal attacks {Not talking about you Invictus you gave your opinion and spoke to the facts}. I live by the simple rule that I would never respond to any post in a way in which I could and/or would not do it face to face. Lets keep this friendly.


 - R




pollux -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 8:42:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I cannot get access to those websites.

 
That's because THEY don't WANT you to have access.



[:D]




wytchywoman -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 8:50:10 PM)

Please. All of you. We get enought grief from people outside the U.S.  I can cite you another thread where an "American" is busy trying his damned best to piss off the rest of the world while claiming:

"I only started this thread because no one can convince me that any other country can come close to doing all the "good" in this world."

I think that political discussions should not be conducted on a site where people own whips. Someone is going to get beaten down with those whips.






tineetude -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 8:51:12 PM)

           I tryed those links as well and don't want to go direct from here, sorry about that. Copy them and bring to browser and they open just fine.   http://www.infowars.com/    http://www.prisonplanet.com/   otherwise these should work
          Let me also add that I totally agree that you can immigrate out of the US, as well as in. It was my right and I chose to exit.
Also that there are others out there spreading the message, not only Alex Jones. It takes open ears to actually listen. For those who don't want to listen, or don't want to believe it possible that the US Govt. could do such horrible things....I honestly hope you are correct in your beliefs. I would rather be known as a fool then to have to live with those kind of atrocities.




pollux -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 8:52:11 PM)

I'm not sure just what propaganda it is you feel intelligent people are being suckered by, but in case you're addressing your post to people who think the official version of events is accurate...

It's possible to dislike or distrust the Bush administration and at the same time also believe 19 Muslim fanatics hijacked 4 airplanes on 9/11 and crashed 3 of them into American symbols of wealth and power.  The one doesn't rule out the other.  I don't see why so many people seem to have trouble maintaining both thoughts simultaneously.

I mean, it isn't like Islamic terrorists didn't ALREADY try to blow up the WTC once before, in 1993.  And it isn't like Bin Laden didn't declare Jihad against the US in 1996, and then spend the next five years bombing American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the US facilities at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, and the USS Cole.  Are we being asked to believe George Bush was behind all of that, too?






Pavel -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 8:53:27 PM)

Perhaps, but poltical discource is an essential part of living in what is deemed to be a free society.  It is through these dicussions, conversations, and dare I say conflicts that we gain perspectives on the world around us. 

That, and as a poltical science major, dicussions on current events make me hot.  Rawr.




MistyMenthal -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 9:27:40 PM)

quote:

I cannot get access to those websites.
 
9/11 is a scam. Humanity is led by a tight rope around the balls, blindfolded and with their hands cuffed behind their back. Anybody who denies that either does not want to know the bad news, or is very gullible, or is part of the conspiracy.  Rule

 
Care to Prove this theory?
 
KISS ME, Misty




colosubseeking -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 9:46:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

My teen has been an investigator and researcher on this very topic, she uncovered some footage almost 7 months ago and has been perusing files, photos, tapes, etc since then, many security tapes from places in the area were confiscated---we have come to the conclusion that there was NO plane, there could not be based on the evidence, to have had a plane it would have had to be going 200 mph travelling 100 feet and less above the ground---and we know that kind of damage that can do---there was no plane---it is her contention that the WTC represented the world NOT the US as it was "neutral territory"--the US sent a missile into the Pentagon to make the attacks US centric.


Ok, i'm not trying to start a flamewar or anything, but .... what the hell would you say to the families of the people who died aboard that plane? i have seen their families weeping on the 9/11 memorials, and tears like those are hard to fake...




darq -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 10:36:32 PM)

I just watched the video ...

To be perfectly honest, yeah, I am a little disturbed.

I dont really have any theories though ... I'm just disturbed.

Obviously things happen that we (the public) are not informed of. Obviously we are sometimes lied to. This video points out just enough to make you stop and go ... Hmmm, I wonder. But it doesnt answer any questions. Please just keep that firmly in mind ...




subtlesubie -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 10:44:56 PM)

   

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/general-discussion/2727-9-11-conspiracy.html?highlight=pentagon

Now shut-up already about it.




Gauge -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 11:05:25 PM)

I have read everything on here and I am stunned... just stunned that wild ideas and theories abound about that day. Look, the US never thought it would happen to us. We never thought that someone would be brash enough to attack us on our own soil. We basically all sat there in disbelief at what was happening on 9-11. To say that there was confusion is no doubt an understatement and I am sure things went very wrong. That does not mean that this was staged for the benefit of the American people to fuel an outcry for war.

The US knew about Hurricane Katrina long before it hit the Gulf coast and look what a complete clusterfuck that was. I have no doubt that there were things that would indicate that a conspiracy may exist but to offer theories rather than concrete proof does not make the theories true. Can I believe that the US response was slow to move? Sure I can. Can I believe that the President did not order planes shot down that were unaccounted for? You bet. Can I believe that the FAA was in a mass panic and that there were so many things going on at once that they lost a plane? Yep. Can I believe that our government might have had some foreknowledge of the potential attack? OK, yes I can. This does not add up to a conspiracy in my eyes... and I am not one to trust the government.

Questions abound and will always be there because no one really wants to admit to the general public that the system of defense of the country made mistakes. Mistakes... not back room deals and blind letter drops and covertly funded US sponsored terrorism. It isn't scary to ponder the conspiracy theories. It is far more terrifying for me to think that in case of a sudden need for the US to defend itself that it would take an extended period of time to jump to readiness. That scares the shit out of me... and it should.


Oh... just as a side note, the above paragraph was not a slam against the US military. I was never in the Armed Forces and I do not claim to know much, if anything, about the alert status of our troops at home.




subtoFemDommes -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 11:35:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: asyouwish72
Just wanted to say thank you to Invictus, JohnWarren, Pollux, and the other debunkers on here. There's a lot of wild-eyed conspiracy theories floating around in regards to 9/11 (and the moon landing, the Kennedy assassination, Pearl Harbor, etc.) but they don't really hold up so well if folks stop and think. Thanks for doing your parts to set the record straight.


Dittos, asyouwish72. 

I'm afraid that the Mistress and i would be worlds apart on that theory and having studied the collapse of the WTC (and listened to it's architect explain what happened) both my observation of the elements that lent themselves to it's compromise and the description of why it would fail that way and fall so quickly and vertically by him, made perfect sense.

In the case of "video evidence" of the object that hit the Pentagon; most estimates have it moving at 250 mph;  that's about 366 feet a second.  Even full 24 frame video surveillance cameras don't cover angles wide enough to have captured more than a few blurry frames of something like that.

For those who think the (very selectively shown) damage in that video should be more extensive, please do an image search for the other photos available and then read the following:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14

The planes hitting the WTC were hitting a paper bag compared with the structure of the Pentagon, where the plane was the paper bag.


And more:

quote:

TheAllegation9/11 Revealed suggests that American Airlines flight 77 was not hijacked and flown into the Pentagon but that, instead, “a drone Boeing 757 is used or a smaller, more manageable plane painted in American Airlines colors.” Facts:  This theory ignores the fact that the passenger and crew remains from American Airlines flight 77 were recovered at the Pentagon crash site.  A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77).  All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims, as reported in the Washington Post on November 21, 2001.  This provides irrefutable proof that American Airlines flight 77, not a drone or other aircraft, crashed into the Pentagon on September 11.  The Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers Allegation9/11 Revealed suggests that the collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers occurred because not the terrorists flew airliners filled with jet fuel into them, but because the towers were “pre-rigged with explosives.”  Facts:  The U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conducted an extremely thorough, three-year investigation into what caused the WTC twin towers to collapse, as explained on NIST’s WTC Web site.  Some 200 staff reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than one thousand people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they collapsed.  Its conclusion is that the twin towers collapsed because the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns and dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, which meant that the subsequent fire, which reached 1000 degrees Celsius, weakened the floors and columns to the point where they bowed and buckled, causing the towers to collapse


http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html

Yes, I know, this is from a State Department website, so it's all propaganda ... those rabid political groups and guys selling their "evidence" are far more believable.

No one every went broke selling the American public a conspiracy theory.  43 years after Kennedy there are still some who think "one guy with a crappy rifle could never have done that."  I've seen guys with crappy rifles shoot better than that.  Repeatedly.





pollux -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/24/2006 11:35:57 PM)

Gauge: this stuff is spreading like WILDFIRE.  Until a month or so ago I felt it was hardly worth the air to say "if you believe this, you're a freaking moron" in response to this crap.

But now -- people are buying it.  These videos are well-produced and they've got slick computer graphics and dramatic music and scary captions and they're being promoted by outfits like Air America.  And the administration hasn't exactly done itself any favors by squandering its credibility.  

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about all of this.  He is a 9/11 conspiracy nut.  I asked him a series of questions about his beliefs, each of which was harder for him to answer in a rational fashion.  After a while, we got down to brass tacks: he believes that there are 12 Jewish families who are manipulating world events for their own ends.  According to him, they are motivated by greed and a lust for power, and are seeking to bring about an apocalyptic nuclear war.  I asked him why they would do this, since a nuclear war would kill all the consumers and destroy the world's economy.  He replied that there is a cadre of interdimensional (or alien, it was never made clear) beings called Cassiopeans who are the *real* puppet masters and who are manipulating the 12 Jewish families for their own mysterious ends, which might be to bring about a heightened state of human consciousness.  Or, alternatively, maybe it's evil demons.   He's not quite sure.

He then went on a long anti-Bush pro-Hugo-Chavez tirade and ended with complaints about the "creeping fascism" that is overtaking the country.   He didn't find it ironic that the conspiracy websites that feed him this drivel have not been taken down, that endless books are currently being published about this, that discussions about these theories are taking place in public, that the US government is regularly and severely criticized by nearly everyone -- and that all of this happens without people being summarily snatched from their homes and executed by death squads.  Hell, we had the whole conversation about this and the government didn't have the COURTESY to send a SINGLE black helicopter.  Not that I could've seen it with its ultra-top-secret inviso-stealth technology that the US obtained from a crashed alien spacecraft.

What I didn't tell him was my belief that creeping fascism is not the worst problem we are facing.  Creeping stupidity is.





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