RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 9:09:28 AM)

quote:

MHOO314: Where is the passenger list?

 
Right here, directly from the Communist News Network (CNN):
 
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
 
Having attended a substantial number of memorial services for people very few were "covered". However I suggest if you doubt, google any of the names on the list and challenge the family as to the "real" death of the person. I'm sure they'll be happy to provide the appropriate figurative holes in the hands and side where the doubting Thomasa's can place their fingers.
 
As you read the names please, in whatever form appropriate to you, send you best thoughts to their families; and if you believe in an after life existence - to them.
 
Meanwhile this site is comprehensive factual information addressing many of the issues.
 
http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm
 
Make sure your seatbelts are securely fastened, keep your arms and legs inside the ride, and press the aluminum foil down securely on your head.



LadyKim -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 9:11:44 AM)

For those who wonder why the attack on the Pentagon didn't get the press that the Twin Towers got, why not take a look at Hurricane Katrina.  The coastal areas of Mississippi were left in splinters after the hurricane; however, the national nightly news service focused it's primary attention on New Orleans.  The news media spends it's time where there are people to talk to.  The fact that the Pentagon is a government facility specializing in sensative information which pretty much eliminates the idea that Dan Rather is going to be able to get someone to sit down and give him the scoop.  There WTC was a commercial enterprise filled with thousands of civilians, and the firefighters and police that rushed to save them loosing their own lives in the process.  More to see + more people to talk too = More news coverage.

It saddens me to see American's cheapening the loss of life on Sept. 11th.  It also seems to me that the people that want to lay the blame at the feet of the US government are really just supporting the efforts made by the terrorists that day (and every day since).  They hate our government...... our way of life.... having American's stand up and sing the same song the terrists do only builds their cause and support. 

The people who post about how they heard something on the news the day of the attack and never heard anything more about it.......  come on.   Our news is riddled with inaccuracies all the time.  Reporters speculate or report something they have 'heard' in order to be first to break the information.  It doesn't mean it is true.  Ex.  I worked for a company in Elgin, IL several years ago that had a fire that destroyed the building in the middle of the work day.  I was there watching the building burn, talking with co-workers.  That on the news, I heard 3 employees died in the blaze which was caused by arson, and their were no plans to reopen the business.   The facts were that no one died that day, the fire started from the electrical system over a paper archive area, and the company had already set up offices in the building next door we had planned to move into the next month anyway.  Two weeks later, there was a follow up report that discussed the effect the closing of the office had on the community; however, we were all back to work not even 1000 feet from the burned out building.   It should come as no surprise to any American that the news media wants the spectacular story...... even if they have to make something less stellar into one.

Thank you to those who have been able to provide links to evidence of the terrorists deeds.  Thank you to those who called the bs that has been spouted by people wanting to appear more informed on military proceedures than they really are.   Most of all........ Thank you to the men and women who serve our country in the military and other government functions.   Reading threads like this one makes me respect them even more for their willingness to lay down their lives for people that don't appreciate their sacrifices. 



subtoFemDommes -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 11:08:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros
there doesn't need to be any direct aid, a lot of how conspiricies actually work involves simply looking the wrong way at the right time.


Or, more to the point in the case of 9/11, covering up how inept the FBI and CIA were at ignoring their hardworking operatives in the field, not because of any vast conspiracy, but because of how cushy and protected and invulnerable the upper levels of the federal bureaucracy are no matter who's in office.

As others have pointed out here, the inefficiencies that exist in large government organizations (and most very large private ones) are so incredible, the shock should be when things go right, not when they go wrong. 

Having been in a position where the public perception was that we would have been the best in our field, while actually knowing what went on and how frequently those in charge covered up for each other, it shouldn't be surprising that there have been no firings of the officials who ignored, or wouldn't fund operations that were gathering information about activities leading up to 9/11.

And it's not.  But it is disgusting.



MHOO314 -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 12:07:07 PM)

First of all let Me apologize, I am far from cold, calloused and unthinking and feeling---I have looked at the myriad of links sent to Me and I do see another plane, to some degree I was missing information. It seems I have inflammed some and alienated others, for that--well I don't know what to say, but I still have My thoughts on certain things--I have and always will keep all human beings who are lost through war, nature, our own carelessness or the carelessness of others in My spiritual thoughts---for at the end of the day, it is indeed our human failings that seem to defeat us the most.

The opinions I have expressed are Mine and Mine alone.



LadyKim -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 2:00:57 PM)

I believe slavehandsome mentioned a professor at Clemson University trying to prove that it was not a commercial aircraft that crashed in to the WTC towers.

However, Purdue University (one of the foremost engineering colleges in the USA for Electrical, Mechanical, Industrial, Civil, AND Chemical Engineering) has studied the information and produced a publically available simulation using the information from the investigation.  Using LS-Dyna (a nonlinear finite simulator used for real world problems), which HAS PROVED the aircraft did strike the Pentagon.   

Here is a link to eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash, and a story of someone else present that day.  This link is to a story called "Hell On Earth" by a Unitarian Univerasalist Church intern minister when the American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon.  Here is another link to an eyewitness account of the aircraft going into the Pentagon by former Presidential Candidate,  Gary Bauer.



MHOO314 -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 2:21:14 PM)

IMHO, I think what we have learned here today, no matter what the feelings or beliefs, is that we have not nor will we ever forget--that those brave people did NOT die in vain and that we still come together collectively passionate about this event.



Moloch -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 2:28:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

I believe slavehandsome mentioned a professor at Clemson University trying to prove that it was not a commercial aircraft that crashed in to the WTC towers.

However, Purdue University (one of the foremost engineering colleges in the USA for Electrical, Mechanical, Industrial, Civil, AND Chemical Engineering) has studied the information and produced a publically available simulation using the information from the investigation.  Using LS-Dyna (a nonlinear finite simulator used for real world problems), which HAS PROVED the aircraft did strike the Pentagon.   

Here is a link to eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash, and a story of someone else present that day.  This link is to a story called "Hell On Earth" by a Unitarian Univerasalist Church intern minister when the American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon.  Here is another link to an eyewitness account of the aircraft going into the Pentagon by former Presidential Candidate,  Gary Bauer.



Im sure JW can back me up on this alot of  univericty porofessors tend to get full of themselves followed by getting full of shit then isolating themselves from the real world and spew their BS to their students like its the truth.



Gauge -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 2:41:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

I have read everything on here and I am stunned...
 
I am not one to trust the government.

You clearly do. Previously I listed as causes of denial: do not want to know the bad news, gullibility, or being part of the conspiracy. Now I would like to add naïveté.


Clearly I do not trust the government. I refer you to an archived thread on these boards called Revisionist History that I started. Don't make statements based on your unsubstantiated assumptions.

Offer tangible proof. Proof that removes doubt. You cannot do it and you know it. It is not a leap of faith that I must make in order to believe that my government orchestrated 9-11 in the light of the evidence to the contrary. Because you have some mysterious theories and half truths based on a manipulation of facts does not obligate me to believe you. Nor does it mean that I trust this government. It means that everything that can be documented, proven, evaluated, analyzed and dissected offers proof that things happened the way the government and independent agencies said they did.

You are not the be all and end all of truth. You are grossly misinformed and arrogant enough to call me naive? You have been called into account... prove what you are saying is true. Convince me that I am an ignorant lout. Show me how superior your knowledge is to my feeble brain. Do not ask me for belief based on manipulated facts. It is all based on how things are presented. Claims of conspiracy when the overwhelming evidence points to the contrary are just silly. However, if it makes you feel better and helps you get to bed thinking that way, more power to you... but don't throw around veiled insults in the name of proving your point. That will not fly with me.



JohnWarren -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 2:53:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyKim

I believe slavehandsome mentioned a professor at Clemson University trying to prove that it was not a commercial aircraft that crashed in to the WTC towers.

However, Purdue University (one of the foremost engineering colleges in the USA for Electrical, Mechanical, Industrial, Civil, AND Chemical Engineering) has studied the information and produced a publically available simulation using the information from the investigation.  Using LS-Dyna (a nonlinear finite simulator used for real world problems), which HAS PROVED the aircraft did strike the Pentagon.   

Here is a link to eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash, and a story of someone else present that day.  This link is to a story called "Hell On Earth" by a Unitarian Univerasalist Church intern minister when the American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon.  Here is another link to an eyewitness account of the aircraft going into the Pentagon by former Presidential Candidate,  Gary Bauer.



Im sure JW can back me up on this alot of  univericty porofessors tend to get full of themselves followed by getting full of shit then isolating themselves from the real world and spew their BS to their students like its the truth.


Some do, some don't.  In this case we have an identified individual with a recognizable, on-target vita vs an anonymous source who in the original comment was identified as a student.

It's easy to guess where I'd put my money



LadyKim -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 3:04:10 PM)

Moloch,

Having worked in a couple of major university settings (including the one I provided with the link to the LS-Dyna study showing the simulation with the information from the crash), I agree with you.  There are some  professors that lose touch with reality and get lost in their own hypothetical world.   However, I also know one of the men involved in this study, and he isn't one to spin his own reality.   I do not know the professor at Clemson, so I cannot say one way or the other  what world he lives in.



knees2you -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 3:19:26 PM)

quote:

First of all let Me apologize, I am far from cold, calloused and unthinking and feeling---I have looked at the myriad of links sent to Me and I do see another plane, to some degree I was missing information. It seems I have inflammed some and alienated others, for that--well I don't know what to say, but I still have My thoughts on certain things--I have and always will keep all human beings who are lost through war, nature, our own carelessness or the carelessness of others in My spiritual thoughts---for at the end of the day, it is indeed our human failings that seem to defeat us the most.

The opinions I have expressed are Mine and Mine alone. MHOO314

 
It's Ok,
I could have never thought that "Americans"
No mater what group they belonged to,
could have blown up the Building in
Oklahoma City...
 
I Believe that Americans have our own
Terrorists to deal with!
There called cereal Killers.
 
I Still remember the day Jeffery Dahmer
was in Court, saying that He should have
stayed with God.
 
Did he deserve to Die in Prison?
 
There is a Movie with Nicholas Cage
and Samuel Jackson called
"Kiss of Death"
 
One of the scenes shows Cage saying,
quote:

 "Clean up Your own backyard before
you go knocking on
your neighbors backdoor!"

 
Always, Ant[;)]



Rule -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 3:36:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
prove what you are saying is true. Convince me that I am an ignorant lout.


Oké. How about Flights 11 and 77 that did not have a destination, nor a tailnumber, nor an actual time of departure from the airport in the records of the Bureau of Traffic Safety? Nor was there any record of them deviating from their course? (see http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm) These planes never existed. Whatever occurred at the Pentagon or at WTC1 did not involve these two commercial airplanes. So anybody who testified that he saw such a plane hit the Pentagon or WTC1 is lying through the teeth. A simple google search suggests that at least some of them may be connected to G.W.B.

Edited because I erroneously once wrote Shanksville instead of WTC1.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 4:16:35 PM)

quote:

Rule: So anybody who testified that he saw such a plane hit the Pentagon or WTC1 is lying through the teeth.


People "lying through their teeth" regarding the Pentagon:

quote:

Witness Accounts of Wreckage Inside the Building


Witnesses described small pieces of plane debris in the building. Because of the fire, much of the debris was burned beyond recognition. Some pieces bore lime or yellow primer paint characteristic of internal aircraft parts. Larger pieces included seats, cockpit circuitry, and a landing gear. These accounts were drawn from Ron Harvey's excellent compilation and from my own research.

1) "Most of the wreckage was in very small pieces and most was carried out in drywall buckets. Some was large enough to identify -- including the tail number on the aircraft. I don't think there's any doubt about what it was and who owned it." (From a letter by an employee of the Pentagon)
http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/comments-general.html

2) "DC Matthew" wrote about his work inside the Pentagon: "After about 15 minutes shoveling up chunks of carpet and brick, I found a piece of circuit board, and a chunk of the plane. When I say a chunk of it, I mean a piece that was about 3 oz of twisted aluminum. The biggest piece I've seen so far is about the size of a refrigerator."
http://pub6.ezboard.com/foldmenonlinewhatdoyouthink.showPrevMessage?topicID=957.topic

3) While searching through wreckage inside the building, firefighters Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz "spotted an intact seat from the plane's cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached." Burkhammer also "spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane" within the building.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp

4) CMSgt. John Monaccio wrote: "I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area."
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon-email_20020316.html

5) ARFF Captain Michael Defina said: "The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear."
http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp

The Navy operations area, where the cockpit was discovered, was in C-ring near the punchout hole. Many witnesses also recalled seeing plane wreckage in A-E Drive next to the punchout hole. The following three items were mentioned: a piece of the nose fuselage or nose cone, a landing gear, and a tire tread.

6) Navy Lt. Commander David Tarantino described the A-E Drive punchout hole: "They found an area where fire surrounded a hole in a wall that was blown out. They heard cries from people who were trapped and saw a plane tire."
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/tarantino.txt

7) Lt. Kevin Schaeffer from the Navy Command Center recalled that "on a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings, a chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall."
http://www.pilotonline.com/special/911/pentagon3.html

8) "The nose of the plane just barely jutted out into A/E Drive (the street that runs around the inside of the building). It made a perfectly round, 5-foot hole in the wall. There was one set of landing gear (presumably from the nose) out in A/E Drive. But most of the plane's skin was in pieces not much bigger than a piece of notebook paper." (From a letter by an employee of the Pentagon)
http://www.humanunderground.com/11september/comments-general.html

9) "I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there." (Paul K. Carlton, Jr., U.S. Air Force surgeon general, quoted by Dean Murphy, "September 11: An Oral History," p. 216

10) Rep. Ted Tiahrt wrote: "In the C and B rings the plane had punched a hole you could a drive a truck around in, and I saw an airplane tire. It made it very real."
http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2002/09/09/story1.html

11) When LTC Victor Correa went back inside the Pentagon, "he found out what caused the horrific attack he survived earlier that morning; he saw the nose cone and the landing gear of the airliner."
http://www.army.mil/usar/news/2002/09-11anniv/herotellsall.html

More witness accounts may be found on Ron Harvey's website: http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/77/ffdd.html


Of course as these are all either Pentagon employees and/or military personal they all have a reason to lie. It's regrettable that someone you trust couldn't provide an up close and personal account.

This link will provide photos:  http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Can DNA evidence be fraudulent. If you were on the OJ jury maybe you think it can. In this case, the families providing the comparable DNA were "in on it" or "lying through their teeth"
quote:

A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 on-board American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers on-board American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims.


Where does Renee May's mother fit in the conspiracy?
quote:

At 9:12 am, approximately 10 minutes after the American Airlines flight 77 had been hijacked, passenger Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, to report that the plane had been hijacked and that the passengers had been herded to the back of the plane.


I would include Barbara Olson only for respect since obviously, as a wife of Ted Olson, solicitor general of the US at the time, she was "sacrificed".
quote:

Minutes later, passenger Barbara Olson called her husband Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States, also reporting that the flight had been hijacked, and that the hijackers had knives and box cutters.



Gauge -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 4:18:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
prove what you are saying is true. Convince me that I am an ignorant lout.


Oké. How about Flights 11 and 77 that did not have a destination, nor a tailnumber, nor an actual time of departure from the airport in the records of the Bureau of Traffic Safety? Nor was there any record of them deviating from their course? (see http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm) These planes never existed. Whatever occurred at the Pentagon or in Shanksville did not involve these two commercial airplanes. So anybody who testified that he saw such a plane hit the Pentagon or WTC1 is lying through the teeth. A simple google search suggests that at least some of them may be connected to G.W.B.


What you have once again provided is supposition. There is an agenda to the website that you offer... "Buy the DVD and see for yourself" that smacks of profiteering off of people that are inclined to believe what anyone writes on the Internet. This does nothing more than deny, inveigle, and obfuscate the truth and serves up no hard evidence. What I want you to do is to show me evidence from an unbiased source that refutes the clear, concise hard proof of the day's events. Do not wave a red herring at me and expect me to cave in and say you are completely right... don't insult my intelligence. One or two or even three anomalies does not prove a conspiracy. The involvement of thousands of people would have to have been enlisted in order to pull something like this off. I would dare say that on that large a scale that the odds of someone blowing the lid off of the entire thing would be quite likely. I highly doubt that the FAA was complicit to have their airplanes hijacked when the air travel industry has been on shaky ground and increased security measures has only served to exasperate the consumers. I would find it outlandish that the eye witnesses were all planted and controlled by some arm of a conspiracy. After careful interrogation of eye witnesses on that level you will find out that someone is lying. And I dare you to contact the families of the victims. You know, the ones that don't exist... those victims. And offer your theories to them. I am sure they would have words for you and they would not be compliments.

You need to convince me that the conspiracy exists. I do not need to acquiesce to the thin shreds of "proof" that you offer. You cannot impeach the clear evidence.



Rule -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 5:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

What you have once again provided is supposition. There is an agenda to the website that you offer...

Ehm, if what they say is not true about the Flights 11 and 77 I expect that they will be sued for libel. So I assume that what they say is true. If anybody can prove that the BTS on 9/11 did have the records that the quoted website asserts the BTS didn't, then I will revise my opinion.
And come on: everybody has an agenda. Some people want to earn a bit of money to provide for themselves and their family, others want to be gullible and believe that they live in a perfect world except for some terrorists and others again are searching for truths. What does it matter what agenda that website has? As long as nobody sues them for libel, nor proves that their assertions are wrong, it must be assumed that they are right.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
What I want you to do is to show me evidence from an unbiased source that refutes the clear, concise hard proof of the day's events.

What hard proof? What unbiased source? I have yet to find one witness supporting the official story that can be shown to be unbiased. Anybody who does know anything is quietly murdered. And there is plenty of evidence in the open. Them conspirators are so blatant about their activities that everybody thinks that on the one hand they are incredibly stupid (like the secret services and other officials) and on the other hand that they cannot be guilty for otherwise they would hide their wrongdoings.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
Do not wave a red herring at me and expect me to cave in and say you are completely right... don't insult my intelligence. One or two or even three anomalies does not prove a conspiracy.

There are no other herrings but red herrings, Gauge. Plenty of them. That you do not want to see them does not relate to your intelligence, but to your wish not to see them and to demand the impossible.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
The involvement of thousands of people would have to have been enlisted in order to pull something like this off. I would dare say that on that large a scale that the odds of someone blowing the lid off of the entire thing would be quite likely.

So? Say that 100,000 people are involved and that on average they are rewarded with 300,000 dollars. Then the total cost of the operation would be 30 billion dollars. To some groups that is peanuts. And what if somebody gets drunk and talks about his tiny part. Who would believe him?
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
I highly doubt that the FAA was complicit to have their airplanes hijacked when the air travel industry has been on shaky ground and increased security measures has only served to exasperate the consumers.

American Airlines Flight 11 and 77 according to the red herring I quoted never existed, so how could they be highjacked? You would do better to doubt your doubt. One of the most important goals of the conspiracy was to increase the control of the powers that are on their citizens. Don't you know that governments want to control their subjects totally? They succeeded admirably.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
I would find it outlandish that the eye witnesses were all planted and controlled by some arm of a conspiracy. After careful interrogation of eye witnesses on that level you will find out that someone is lying.

Oh? Never heard of perjury? Go right ahead finding outlandish whatever you like, the word perjury will not disappear from the dictionary.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
And I dare you to contact the families of the victims. You know, the ones that don't exist... those victims. And offer your theories to them. I am sure they would have words for you and they would not be compliments.

I am sure that you are right. At least one of the relatives of a supposed plane passenger was offered two million dollars. I am sure that for that amount of money they could spare three minutes to have words for anyone. Suppose they had to give it back otherwise... and gotten murdered to boot...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
You need to convince me that the conspiracy exists. I do not need to acquiesce to the thin shreds of "proof" that you offer. You cannot impeach the clear evidence.

I am sorry, but I do not have to do anything. You have issues. I don't. And if you want evidence, pinch yourself: that perhaps is evidence that you are awake. (On the other hand, some people are able to dream that they pinch themselves without waking up. So perhaps you are dreaming.) The only evidence anyone may ever believe is whether they are awake or not - and even then they may be dreaming it.



Gauge -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 5:37:43 PM)

quote:

You have issues. I don't.



I have issues? Of course I have issues, but it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. You have not taken the challenge of taking the proof and discrediting it. You are asking me to take the conspiracy theory and validate it in clear dichotomy to hard evidence. It is a wonderful idea that you have and there may indeed be questions left to be answered but you can't sell me a pig and call it a horse. Anomalies exist and that is what people have latched on to in the hopes of providing them a sense of justification for their own blatant paranoia.

You are correct that you do not have to do anything... your actions are speaking for themselves. Please, continue to believe your little pet theory... someone has got to be paranoid.



MistyMenthal -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 5:52:51 PM)

quote:

It's Ok,
I could have never thought that "Americans"
No mater what group they belonged to,
could have blown up the Building in
Oklahoma City...
 
I Believe that Americans have our own
Terrorists to deal with!
There called cereal Killers.
 
I Still remember the day Jeffery Dahmer
was in Court, saying that He should have
stayed with God.
 
Did he deserve to Die in Prison?
 
There is a Movie with Nicholas Cage
and Samuel Jackson called
"Kiss of Death"
 
One of the scenes shows Cage saying,

quote:

"Clean up Your own backyard before
you go knocking on
your neighbors backdoor!"


 
Always, Ant[;)]


Darling boy,
Yes this is sooo true!
 
For what ever reason that this Tragidy happened,
it happened!
 
I Believe that Our Government is Crooked.
Just like a rusty knife.[:@]
 
quote:

"But We Helped Get these Officals Elected!"
 
KISS ME, Misty
 



Rule -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 6:03:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

You have not taken the challenge of taking the proof and discrediting it.

I was not given that challenge. I was asked for some facts supporting part of the many conspiracy theories. I provided those facts. You called them red herrings, because you didn't want to hear them and that was the only way to discredit them. Now you are saying that you asked me to do the opposite: disproving something instead of proving something. If you are that confused about your own facts, you must be even more confused about facts that do not pertain to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
You are asking me to take the conspiracy theory and validate it in clear dichotomy to hard evidence. It is a wonderful idea that you have and there may indeed be questions left to be answered but you can't sell me a pig and call it a horse. Anomalies exist and that is what people have latched on to in the hopes of providing them a sense of justification for their own blatant paranoia.

Around 1967 or thereabouts someone discovered an anomaly on a graph and wrote next to it "Little green men?" It was the first discovered pulsar and since then hundreds or thousands of them have been discovered. There are also hundreds if not thousands of 9/11 anomalies. Red herrings, but you do not eat fish and therefore will never see them. My example was a random example; there are hundreds more: all anomalies, that you will discard one by one. In the above quote you talk like someone who has brainwashed himself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
You are correct that you do not have to do anything... your actions are speaking for themselves. Please, continue to believe your little pet theory... someone has got to be paranoid.

Thanks. Being paranoid is better than being insufficiently paranoid. [;)]



cariad -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 6:07:53 PM)

girl lost a brother in law in 9'11 and a friend of a friend lost her fiance` in it as well.  girl has on her website for her radio station some links to 9'11 and the Oklahoma Bombing.  to this day girl will NOT fly for anyone or anything unless she absolutely has to, because while they say "the airports are now safe to travel in," she knows they are not because of the lack of concern for safety when a friend who went to the States on business was handed a steak knife just weeks after the towers went down.

they got a passenger with a bomb in his shoe didn't they?

this brings up a topic she was going to post on irc in her rooms: Safety:  Is It O/our Responsibility or O/our Governments? Do Y/you Think Terrorism Only Affects T/those involved ? Do Y/you Think It Affects Everyone? Why/Why Not?

girl says it's everyone's responsibility because if we don't look out for ourselves and our fellow man, how can we expect anyone to help us stay safe and feel protected?

girl says: Terrorism affects everyone, everywhere no matter their age, race, religion, status in society or income.

we all need to be aware of what is going on around us and help those who can't help themselves ie: elderly, infirm etc.

if any of you wish to view the links at the stations website go to: http://members.fortunecity.com/maxxtraxxmusic and scroll down to find the links (girls cousin does her website and has a link on it as well.)

she apologizes for her rant but when she saw the topic, she was in tears remembering those who were lost not only to her but to all of  America, Canada and the other countries that lost loved ones.





Gauge -> RE: Sept. 911 Rare footage. What really happened at the Pentagon? (4/25/2006 10:27:56 PM)

quote:

I was not given that challenge. I was asked for some facts supporting part of the many conspiracy theories. I provided those facts. You called them red herrings, because you didn't want to hear them and that was the only way to discredit them. Now you are saying that you asked me to do the opposite: disproving something instead of proving something. If you are that confused about your own facts, you must be even more confused about facts that do not pertain to you.


I will ask this just one time... please, in the quotes below, show me where I haven't asked you to disprove the proven.



quote:

What I want you to do is to show me evidence from an unbiased source that refutes the clear, concise hard proof of the day's events.


quote:

 You need to convince me that the conspiracy exists. I do not need to acquiesce to the thin shreds of "proof" that you offer. You cannot impeach the clear evidence. 


quote:

 You are asking me to take the conspiracy theory and validate it in clear dichotomy to hard evidence. 


Now, I threw down the gauntlet and you have yet to disprove the facts. All I am asking for is for you to disprove everything that has been documented. You cannot point to a gap and say, "SEE???? CONSPIRACY!!!!!" and expect me to think that you have proven your claim. I do not believe that I am the one that is confused.

quote:

My example was a random example; there are hundreds more: all anomalies, that you will discard one by one. In the above quote you talk like someone who has brainwashed himself.


I have admitted that there were gaps and items that will never be explained. I have never discarded anything. What you point to is weak. The events of 9-11 caught this nation sleeping... it is that simple. Mistakes were made and although I cannot speak from personal knowledge of the military, I believe that the military acted the way it was designed to act. But that was slow in coming and maybe for a damn good reason. Maybe the delay was so the military and the government could be sure about what was happening before they shot down airplanes full of innocent people. Gaps in information do not disprove the abundance of evidence set forth in news reports, investigative reports and deep study into the facts. Does it raise a question as to why the gap is there? Sure it does, but people don't like to admit mistakes no matter who they are. That doesn't prove conspiracy. 

quote:

Thanks. Being paranoid is better than being insufficiently paranoid.


Insufficiently paranoid? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Did you ever bother looking up that thread I directed you to in my post? I do not trust this government. I am not a troglodyte. I do not try to immerse myself with nonsense when there is proof otherwise. In a court of law you would have been laughed out of a courtroom for presenting what you have offered in light of existing, real, documented, validated proof.

The best thing about banging your head into a brick wall is when you stop doing it. I am done with this stupidity. You believe what you want to believe and I will be content deceiving myself and we all can live happy lives.

[sm=banghead.gif]





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