RE: The need to be rude?!?

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lizi -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 3:10:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Hi Bella We're talking past each other- I'll try again. Look- its not that my dictates aren't being followed- like Peon points out as well- it's the dictates of any reasonable guy. I'll throw out another analogy- Given who I am, and who my friends are-we don't frequent biker bars. Don't like the amount of drinking, the amount of macho posturing, fighting etc. I'm also not really interested in biker chicks- because the kind of woman that would like that kind of a guy- well she's not going to like me- and I'm probably not going to be too crazy about her- we have different values. Does this mean that I think biker bars should be shut down? Hell no- lots of people like them- I'm just not one of them. Doesn't make them wrong, just makes them not to my taste. I'm happier in a restaurant drinking a glass of wine or a good scotch. If I'm making the discovery that this site is the dating equivalent of a biker bar- then I'm going to go look elsewhere. If the women on this site are happy with the guys that they're meeting- fine. All I'm saying is that a reasonable guy is likely going to go someplace else when the women he meets are looking at him like he's a creep. In short- women in this site have the right to act however they please- but don't be surprised when it gets overrun by creeps after you've chased off all the reasonable guys. To expect anything else is just wishful thinking... Sam Some of the posters on this thread have pointed out that reasonable men don't seem to understand what unreasonable men will do, and the reasonable ones even seem to go so far as to disbelieve women when they tell them about the problems they can encounter. It's as though the reasonable men are rejecting out of hand what women are telling them simply because they don't do it, so other men must not either, therefore the end product must be that women are somehow fabricating these stories of rudeness. We aren't. My own man during a conversation we were having about my encounters of the rude kind, did not seem to believe me when I told him what I have experienced. He couldn't wrap his head around the fact that all men do not behave as he does. I can tell that he's trying to understand it now when we talk- he'll ask me questions, it's as though he has encountered a brand new topic that he has no knowledge of. He's having to learn it from the ground up....it's new territory for his brain to ponder. Saying that "it's the dicates of any reasonable guy" isn't really referencing the entire male population. The reasonable guy category is only a portion of men. Thinking that because you yourself and the men you know are reasonable, therefore the rest of men must be reasonable as well, is infuriatingly narrow minded. The women who responded to this thread by telling of their encounters of rudeness are more or less being disbelieved and called drama queens. Not everything is based upon what you know in your own experiences Samboct, how egocentric to think so. If women on this site are chasing off the reasonable men by not responding to emails then perhaps it is time to pay attention to what those women are saying. Many women have replied to this thread by saying that they are tired of playing roulette and responding politely to messages and then being punished in a rude way for doing so....therefore they don't respond anymore because it is upsetting. Trying to say that the second-hand rudeness of being silent to an email is equal to first-handedly experiencing an actively rude message is crap. One more thing...the quote referenced above speaks of bikers...do you actually know any Samboct? If you don't frequent the biker bars then how do you know that there is macho posturing and fighting? Replace the word biker in the above quote with any other racial group or subset of the human race and it's equally offensive. Stereotyping never helps your cause, just sayin... Many of the women here would do well to meet a biker, they're not the bottom of the barrel by any means. I've rarely met a group of men who are more gallant, helpful, honest and polite, and they are more than ready and willing to help out in any situation where they are needed. I am not a biker chick although I ride. I know plenty of bikers both male and female, from widely recognized clubs to weekend riders - your generalization left a bad taste in my mouth and is way off the mark.

WyldHrt -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 3:58:19 PM)
quote: As a matter of fact, most of you have never gotten me at all. You imply that I'm reacting out of anger and in most cases you couldn't be further from the truth but your quickness to judge and self-surefooted attitudes won't allow you to see what's really happening. I'm okay with that because I'll continue to do what I do for the reasons that I do..Each reason being possibly slightly different than the next for each individual. By all means don your tights, gather up your Merry Men and continue on, then. [:D]

WyldHrt -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:15:11 PM)
quote: quote: Maybe it went to your bulk mail. I'm probably outside of any filters you may have set. Yeah I forgot after coming into this thread for very mild amusement..I checked all of the mail controls :> Ummm... if not responding to polite cmails is rude, isn't the use of mail filters also rude? Surely some of the mail getting filtered to the bulk folder and deleted unread is 'polite', so how is using filters ok but not responding to unwanted mail rude? Were I using CM strictly as a dating site, I would have filters on my inbox and probably not even see about 75% of the mail I get. I don't use the filters because I correspond with many people from the forums that are outside my search criteria, and I don't want their mails to go to bulk. With the new mouseover feature (thank you, CM!) I don't have to open a mail to see what is in it. That being the case, what is the difference between filtering mail to bulk and deleting it unread from one's inbox? The recipient sees the same thing either way (deleted unread), so is xhe then justified in sending a nastygram due to 'rude' behavior?

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:24:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: As a matter of fact, most of you have never gotten me at all. You imply that I'm reacting out of anger and in most cases you couldn't be further from the truth but your quickness to judge and self-surefooted attitudes won't allow you to see what's really happening. I'm okay with that because I'll continue to do what I do for the reasons that I do..Each reason being possibly slightly different than the next for each individual. By all means don your tights, gather up your Merry Men and continue on, then. [:D] Fair enough but don't cry foul when I'm snarky to you again. If your not willing to rise above it your sure enough going to get dirty too.

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:27:17 PM)
quote: Ummm... if not responding to polite cmails is rude, isn't the use of mail filters also rude? Surely some of the mail getting filtered to the bulk folder and deleted unread is 'polite', so how is using filters ok but not responding to unwanted mail rude? Well I wanted to see what would happen..I usually don't nor did I intend to leave it on..Which a good bit ago were turned off again so the mail is free flowing. Your not as smaht of a kewkie as you think you are. The idea of using the email blocks is for those who feel so stressed that they can't deal and so I don't have to hear the whining anymore lol.

WyldHrt -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:36:02 PM)
quote: Well I wanted to see what would happen..I usually don't nor did I intend to leave it on..Which a good bit ago were turned off again so the mail is free flowing. Your not as smaht of a kewkie as you think you are. Believe it or not, my comment was not about you. It was a general question sparked by your exchange with LP about mail filters. As to my nick, it was a gift from a staff member. I did not request it. quote: The idea of using the email blocks is for those who feel so stressed that they can't deal and so I don't have to hear the whining anymore lol. Again, it is not all about you. Per CM, the filters are there to reduce the amount of unwanted mail that a person receives. Many people on the other side use them and even samboct advocated their use, hence my question of why using the mail filters is acceptable but not sending a reply is rude.

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:46:16 PM)
quote: Again, it is not all about you. Per CM, the filters are there to reduce the amount of unwanted mail that a person receives. Many people on the other side use them and even samboct advocated their use, hence my question of why using the mail filters is acceptable but not sending a reply is rude. I guess in a way it would still be rude..Kinda like not answering the phone when someone calls but it sure beats a lot of people going on and on about how uncomfortable it is. At least you'll be able to pick people who you want to talk to and not leave anyone hanging..I personally would suggest that they have a standard message that each person could customize based on their particular filter...Meaning for out of staters.."I'm sorry but you don't meet my criteria for in-state only..sorry. Your next email will unfortunately have to be sent to bulk"..Something like that...Something you might say maybe "I don't want to talk to you because your too fucking far away...Can't you get a fucking clue already?...If you contact me again I will have to call the authorities!" Ya know..something kind.

Twoshoes -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 4:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact While I agree with you that most of the folks who are on the collar chat side of things (non forum participants) probably aren't going to read it, there is still interesting discussion here. Why not allow folks from a different demographic than their own have information on what it's like from another perspective? quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I get that from you..no worries. You don't have a clue what I would or wouldn't do and for what reasons. You know what, you're both right. The information is useful, people are experimenting with new profiles, so I retract my previous statement.

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 5:00:11 PM)
quote: I retract my previous statement. Fair enough..No harm done.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 5:15:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct 4) It's an entirely different situation is you're trying to be picked out as a reasonable guy from a bunch of stalkers. First off, it can't be done. There can be the illusion of control on the part of the women who think they can do so- but it's like viewing a bunch of murderers and saying you can figure out who did it by looking at them. Yes, some men are unsavory and will be rejected out of hand. But the pool of men being considered will have individuals that know how to camouflage themselves well enough to be picked. In fact, they'll probably be picked before a guy like me- I don't have that kind of charm. It's not as bleak as that. On my social profile, a guy has to do one single thing to get me to write back and strike up a conversation. He has to actually mention that he participates in or is interested in talking about the vanilla hobby of interest that I spend most of the profile discussing. As long as he hasn't also included dick pictures or been gross and explicit, I will always be happy to write back for a chat. In my experience, every guy who has led off initial contact with a common interest in a shared non kinky hobby has been fine to talk to, and I have no qualms doing so. I can actually have a two way conversation with him. He listened to what I said first and he socially acknowledged me as another human being. That is critically important in making the determination between "real person who is cool to talk to" and "potentially crazy stalker who will send perpetual hate mail if I have any further contact encouraging him." By actually listening to what I said and responding to it in kind, he did not ignore me socially and attempt to use me as a one way fetish sex object with no interest in actually communicating or in anything I might have to say. That is a damn good sign, and one that always makes me feel safe continuing the conversation. I have never gotten a subsequent nastygram from a man who started out by socially acknowledging me and who spoke to me as another human being with shared vanilla interests, even if we're not compatible for play and I tell him so. The red flags are almost always there from the start, in my experience. The trolling one-liners, the propositions to a friends-only profile, all of this says very clearly to me that I am being socially ignored and not acknowledged as a human being by the person on the other end. That is a huge, huge red flag. There is no two way communication; it's very much a one-way transaction, with him ignoring me socially while pursuing his sexual goals. I don't care if a random stranger ignores me while pursuing his goals. That's his business. But dude, if your goal is being intimate with me, you're doing it wrong. Peon, so far, what percentage of people writing to me have so much as mentioned the vanilla hobby of interest that I spend pretty much the entire profile focusing on as the main reason I'm here on the site, and the main thing I very clearly stated that I'm looking for in the lifestyle?

WolfyMontgomery -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 5:24:01 PM)
For my first official post in the conversational forums, I think I'll just post an example of what a not-so-nice Dom-type likes to send to slave-types that might invoke "rude" responses. Names have been removed. "this will be total domination of ur life....what u'll wear (when u need to), what u eat, ur job, ur breeding, i'll need ur address/full name, social security number, bank account number, everything eventually....as my slave, u'll be caned, spanked, whipped, tortured, abused,branded, tattooed, u'll eat shit, drink piss, sell urself, do animals, ur daughter,sleep in a cage, do porn movies, model for magazines/websites and i'll take ur money.......is that what u want?email me nude pictures to **email address removed** height, weight, measurements, cupsize, full namehow do u have ur nails?" Now... this MIGHT not be such a bad post to some people (maybe? I dunno... seems pretty bad to me). Except for several very large and very obvious things that, if he'd bothered reading my profile, he would have known and would not have emailed me with this message: 1: I state in my profile that I am owned and loved by a caring Master.2: I am actively looking for "Friends Only" and nothing else. 3: I have Watersports on my Hard Limits (which for me includes both drinking piss AND eating shit, since apparently shit was too gross to even put on the kinks list) And in addition to those facts, there is also the fact that many of the things that he is "requiring" is very dangerous to do if one doesn't have full and complete trust in a person - which means GREAT BIG RED FLAG for a first expectation. You know, the whole Social Security Number part, my Bank Account Number, Doing illegal things like Beastiality and Incest (you did catch that "Do your Daughter" part, right?), Become a prostitute and all the money is his. I will freely admit that my reply was saying that his opening statement was a REALLY funny joke (as one such as I can only take something like that as such, because if one had read my profile he would know that 90% of his requests would be thought of as such), and then answered his question that Master was in a Silver mood at the time, and that was the color of my nails. Master approved of my reply through fits of giggles. He replied back telling me I shouldn't be so rude and blocked me. Granted I know I'm not exactly a nice person to people who send me those messages, but I don't really feel as if I should be to the sort of person who would totally disregard my limits/statements and such and still send that to me. The only nice thing I can say about this guy is that he asked me "is that what I want?", though he wouldn't have even needed to bother asking that if he'd taken a look at my profile and realized that it wasn't ahead of time. It is mostly the fact that Master and I actually like laughing at these emails that I haven't become bitter and sour over them. I can see how many women who ARE looking for their One (either Domme or sub/slave) would get cold and take everything she gets from any man with a grain of salt with emails like this. If I WAS single, I will admit that I probably would have been a bit bitchy at him then too, pointing out the very obvious things that he either ignored or overlooked. Wouldn't you? Just my two cents =)

CaringandReal -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 5:47:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I guess in a way it would still be rude..Kinda like not answering the phone when someone calls but it sure beats a lot of people going on and on about how uncomfortable it is. Ok, this made me LOL. You keep complaining about all the whining. But nobody, absolutely nobody, is holding a gun to you head and forcing you to read the single thread where said whining is all neatly localized. If you don't want to see any whining all you have to do is pass this irresitable little baby by, even though you've seen it's grown three pages since you last looked at it and its title is so bold and beckoning... "Just say No Click" to Whine, Icarys. It should be easier than quitting smoking (shouldn't it?)

PeonForHer -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 6:12:37 PM)
Did you ask him if he enjoyed cuddles and walks in the country?

WolfyMontgomery -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 6:38:28 PM)
You know, I should have. That would have been FUNNY. But then I might have given him the wrong message - i.e that I was interested in him in a relationship sense, which I wasn't and wouldn't have been even if he'd given me a message that sounded like Shakespeare came back from the dead and was fawning over me. Which would have been really sexy (pretty writing), and I should tell Master that he should do that bwahaha! I always try to be at least somewhat polite, and am always very upfront about what I am looking for - i.e good conversation, not smut. =P In some ways I got the feeling that he felt I was being rude because I wasn't calling him Sir or Master...

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 6:41:26 PM)
quote: Ok, this made me LOL. You keep complaining about all the whining. But nobody, absolutely nobody, is holding a gun to you head and forcing you to read the single thread where said whining is all neatly localized. If you don't want to see any whining all you have to do is pass this irresitable little baby by, even though you've seen it's grown three pages since you last looked at it and its title is so bold and beckoning... "Just say No Click" to Whine, Icarys. It should be easier than quitting smoking (shouldn't it?) Because there might be some good that comes out of it... If your too cowardly to face the world then that's your problem but please take a hint from your own journal and keep the whining to a minimum. That's also what I read from your profile....Don't you hate that in men? What makes you think it's attractive for a woman to do? I don't think the male hatred has died down any Caring. What the hell does smoking have to do with anything? I'm assuming to we can't be friends?[:D]

CaringandReal -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 7:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Don't take this the wrong way, but your impression of my profile is actually exactly what I hope that the people I don't want to contact me will think. I don't...It was just my take and I know you've stated that exact thing in your profile...the reason you do it that way but if your getting negative emails and have now closed down your profile..is it really working that well? In my opinion it's not because you don't seemed to thrilled about it. I think you might be missing out on possible friends as well and truthfully even possible mates that you might have knee-jerked blocked. Am I really that awful of a guy in your eyes that you wouldn't even want a possible friendship with me? It won't hurt my feelings..You can answer that if you like.[:D] Ah, now we get to heart of this. Ok, Several points. While my profile is hidden right now, it won't be forever. I'm just on a vacation, and like most people on vacations, enjoying the hell out of it. So yes, it's working for the purpose I intended it for: to de-stress. I'll be back in the trenches soon enough. :/ I'm honestly not looking for friendship from strangers on a personal-ad site. I'm looking for my next owner. I look for and find friends in other places, where I don't have to be suspicious or mistrusting of the offers of friendship. See DesFTP and others above me, I've had the same experiences as they describe, over and over. But in addition to regarding certain offers of friendship with suspcion, friendship in general is not something very high on my priorities list for this website. I understand it is different for other people. But it's just not me. I usually have a very good reason for blocking someone. It may be petty, like disliking the male-dom version of whining, but it is seldom knee-jerk. For instance, I blocked you (and also hid you on this forum) for many months for one simple but to me, compelling, reason. There was a thread (actually there were about twenty of them) where everybody and their cousin was chasing around, cruelly insulting, and bullying a new male dominant poster. I was one of the few people who stuck up for him. I did so because at times he expressed some very useful, profound, and correct (in my experience) ideas about master-and-slave relationships and I thought his words added something of considerable value to the forum, depspite the things he did that annoyed the hell out of people (including myself) and I didn't want to see him censored by a hysterical lynch mob who was, at the peak of this so crazy that he couldn't say a single word without them screaming about how evil and wrong that single word was. The hysteria over him, quite frankly was astonishing. I'd seldom seen emotions that obsessive rise that high, and I've been in some very, very bad forums. You were a part of that group, and well, bullies always seem to get frustrated if there is even one quiet person is sticking up for their chosen victim. I expected to be targeted, and I feared it, but I don't let fears stop me from doing what I thought was appropriate. And so I was. By you, and unprovoked--I had not said anything to you. You went to my profile, you dragged some personal info (as in related to me and not to the discussion at hand) from it and then posted it on the message board with some ridicule in an attempt, I thought, to "prove" that I was unreliable and my arguments invalid: character assassination, in other words, instead of addressing my message and arguing with it directly. That's when I decided you were not worth speaking with and I pre-emptively blocked you and hid you on the forum. I was hurt but I also don't like to engage with people who fight dirty, using tricks like this instead straightforwardly addressing what is actually being said. Months later, when this had blown over and the "undesirable one" had left stopped posting, I went back and tried to find some of those threads and re-read the social intereactions. I ran across the comments you had made about my profile, and while I was still very annoyed at you for having dragged my personal information into the public eye (I have enough of a problem with stalking and harassment as it is), my emotions had cooled a bit, so I unhid you. I wanted to see if you were going to get all jerkish again, or if this had been merely a situational thing. It had slipped my mind that I'd also blocked you at my profile, and when I eventually remembered I thought it was no big deal due to the following reasons: you'd been what I felt was clearly hostile to me and I didn't want to risk your tearing me a new asshole in private. And secondly, as I don't encourage or desire friendships on this website, and make that very clear, why should it matter to either of us if you're blocked or not blocked? So in answer to your question, yes, I suppose you _were_ that awful of a guy at one time. But primarily it wasn't a "bad guy--you're blocked/good guy--you're not" affair. It was more a "I need to continue doing what I am doing and I don't want to be intimidated from doing so" sort of thing. I know my own emotional limits, what I can take and of what sort and how much before I lose nerve or heart, and, as I didn't want the chance of your potentially further pressing on a sensitive nerve to influence me, I cut off my exposure to you. I hope this isn't TMI, but you did ask and I thought it deserved a decent explanation.

odysseyIndeed -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 7:22:51 PM)
He must be getting some sort of response because someone else posted that exact email in a thread that I read a week or two ago. I remember specifically because they were laughing when he asked "is that what u want?" i just can't imagine pasting that to just anyone new they see if they never get a nibble .. but maybe?

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 7:24:58 PM)
quote: I hope this isn't TMI, but you did ask and I thought it deserved a decent explanation. Actually it's not enough but I thank you for this much.. I would like to see what your talking about because honestly I don't remember that..I don't even remember having much of a conversation with you at all before you've recently started posting. So if your going to state things like that I would appreciate some proof.

Icarys -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 7:31:31 PM)
quote: Ah, now we get to heart of this. Ok, Several points. Okay what does this mean? You think this is about you? No while I did decide to post I promise you it had nothing to do with you...You were a side thought only.

CaringandReal -> RE: The need to be rude?!? (10/9/2010 7:31:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Ok, this made me LOL. You keep complaining about all the whining. But nobody, absolutely nobody, is holding a gun to you head and forcing you to read the single thread where said whining is all neatly localized. If you don't want to see any whining all you have to do is pass this irresitable little baby by, even though you've seen it's grown three pages since you last looked at it and its title is so bold and beckoning... "Just say No Click" to Whine, Icarys. It should be easier than quitting smoking (shouldn't it?) Because there might be some good that comes out of it... If your too cowardly to face the world then that's your problem but please take a hint from your own journal and keep the whining to a minimum. That's also what I read from your profile....Don't you hate that in men? What makes you think it's attractive for a woman to do? I don't think the male hatred has died down any Caring. What the hell does smoking have to do with anything? I'm assuming to we can't be friends?[:D] "Because there might be something good that comes out of it..." Nods. Like alienating me so deeply that I put you right back on hide? You certainly have an interesting idea of good. But who knows, in the grand scheme of things this might be the best thing you've ever done--at least from my perspective. This "whining" (I think that is quite a false representation of what is actually going on here--it reminds me so much of the men who used to say, before it became un-PC to do so, "She said she was raped? Aww, you KNOW the bitch wanted it!" ) is far out of your way. You do not come across it randomly, without desiring to, as I do when I you browse profiles or read those of the people who write you. You have to actively seek it out. Quiting smoking is hard to do because you are fighting a physical addition. I think that there are some emotional habits that are equally addictive. One of those, in my eyes, is reading and responding to things that they hate. Far from characterizing that as uncowardly, I choose to see it as obsessive and something that someone with far too much aggression and no clear idea of how to handle it taking out their frustrations on easy targets. I'm really sorry I wasted the time answering your earlier question. Well, maybe it'll help somebody else to read all that. I suppose my behavior sometimes seems a little baffling from the outside. At very least it'll provide some light amusement for the evening. After what you've written above, I assume you know the answer to your last question. Bye.

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