Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (Full Version)

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Jaybeee -> Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 3:59:21 PM)

Hi, this question is ONLY to Masters, not mistresses or slaves, please (although if I've PM'ed you this link, then you're here by prior invitation regardless of status and so I DEFINITELY want your considered opinion). I've "Asked a Slave" a similar question and the results were pretty uninformative, so with that refinement in mind, here goes!

Do you see any conflict between how much love/affection you can lavish on a slave, and your dominance over her? If you are IN love, do you think there's a point at which too much lovey-dovey stuff, if it starts to cut into the 'stern' times, will lead to a loss of authority? This actually hasn't been my experience in the two relationships I've had since I dropped the whole societal bs about me wanting to be in an "equal" partnership; I've led and so far, I'd gotten the mix correct. But I can't say I was IN love either time; I get the feeling all the rules will be tossed out the window when I'm head over heels.

I ask this because, at heart, I'm a kind leader. I'm quite aware that from time to time, obedience MUST be blind without , authority must be stamped without tolerance of delay but on the whole, I wish to lead with transparency and with caring; I'm not a dictator. So - what have your experiences been, striking a balance between being in love with your slave, and being a Master?

I look forward to your thoughts, gentlemen (and a couple of dear ladies too!)

Jaybeee.



SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 4:06:26 PM)

I know you dont want a submissives/slaves opinion.

However I cannot blindly follow someone with out loving them deeply to the core.

I also cannot be in a relationship where my partner didnt love me in return.

So in my case, I cant have ANY dynamic with out love.



littlewonder -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 4:48:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I know you dont want a submissives/slaves opinion.

However I cannot blindly follow someone with out loving them deeply to the core.

I also cannot be in a relationship where my partner didnt love me in return.

So in my case, I cant have ANY dynamic with out love.



This...to the core.




jujubeeMB -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:04:25 PM)

Yeah, telling people not to post just makes them post.

I have a few questions for you, OP: if you fall madly in love with a slave, and lavish attention and love on her and your authority slips and you're both happy, then why do you care about the authority slipping? Who are you trying to prove something to? Is your level of authority and control more important than your happiness?

Just do what comes naturally. If it comes naturally, and everyone is happy, then it was meant to be, and there's nothing wrong with it. Hold back your feelings for fear of losing authority and you'll find that you'll never get to be head over heels, and that would truly be the loss.



DarkSteven -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:07:26 PM)

I'd love to answer, but I'm a Dom, not a Master, and therefore my response would be invalid.



BrokenSaint -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:14:35 PM)

It's a fine line. But there are so many variables involved, depending on how one looks at love in general, and the particulars of a specific love.

Can it lead to a loss of control? Sure. I'd figure that how likely that is to happen is more a function of the discipline one keeps over themselves rather than on another.

I haven't had much difficulty in that area. I tend towards an almost unhealthy amount of introspection and analysis of my own actions, makes it difficult to lose myself in most things. Allows for a kind of disconnect gap between actions and emotions, for lack of a better word. You may also find some insight from the gorean concept of a love slave as well.





jujubeeMB -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:14:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I'd love to answer, but I'm a Dom, not a Master, and therefore my response would be invalid.


See, this is why exclusivity is stupid. We don't get to hear excellent advice from Steven [;)]



NuevaVida -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:25:55 PM)

I'm answering anyway.  Responses to questions in all of the forums here benefit far more people than simply those asking the questions. There is no such thing as an "invitation only" question on a public message board.

That said, who better to answer the question as to what his authority level is when he loves me, than the person he loves?

The man's love for me runs deep.  He tells me this regularly, and his actions demonstrate it. It is his love for me that allows me to fully trust in his leadership of me, because it intensifies his vested interest.  The art is in his ability to love and lead.  While many owners, masters, and dominants can combine the two, many can not.  If someone can not effectively love and lead, then it's the person's skills that are lacking, not the element (of love) that makes authority lack.

My ex owner strongly felt a leader's abilities to lead would falter if he loved, too.  In retrospect, I can clearly see the issue was him - his inability to do both - and he justified that inability by deciding a universal truth (which was quite untrue) that a master should not love his slave.  By stating such a "truth," he could mask his inabilities.  Not so impressive, when you look at it that way.



Shadow-tiger -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:50:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Do you see any conflict between how much love/affection you can lavish on a slave, and your dominance over her? If you are IN love, do you think there's a point at which too much lovey-dovey stuff, if it starts to cut into the 'stern' times, will lead to a loss of authority? This actually hasn't been my experience in the two relationships I've had since I dropped the whole societal bs about me wanting to be in an "equal" partnership; I've led and so far, I'd gotten the mix correct. But I can't say I was IN love either time; I get the feeling all the rules will be tossed out the window when I'm head over heels.

Alright, I'll come into this fresh from the OP. For me love is an integral part of a relationship, especially if I'm going to take someone as a slave. In a sense for me, the way I interact with someone is an expression of my feelings. Or to put it simply, if I don't love or feel affection for my girl, I'm not going to have much interest in how she serves me. I'm guessing your worry is that you won't want to be stern, demanding, perhaps downright mean if you're in love.

Believe me, it's so much more fun that way! Because if you're pissed, it hits home that much more. So many things that can be shared when you get really close to someone. Although closeness doesn't imply love, for me they can be one and the same. Whether or not the rules change when you fall head over heels is dependent on what you really want deep down. You might find yourself being a bit more gentle, less demanding. You might find you're more so, but for different reasons. How will you know unless you try?

quote:

I ask this because, at heart, I'm a kind leader. I'm quite aware that from time to time, obedience MUST be blind without , authority must be stamped without tolerance of delay but on the whole, I wish to lead with transparency and with caring; I'm not a dictator.

See this right here I have to disagree with. I don't do blind obedience ever, it just doesn't ring true for me. Well alright, there might be a certain type of play where that comes in, but never in day to day life. And authority doesn't need to be wielded like a hammer, as being gentle, a little subtle and nothing but kind may achieve the same result without the submissive realizing it.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.



UniqueRaven -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 5:56:25 PM)

Honestly, I see this as - like so many things - up to the two involved in the relationship, and their compatibility.

I did have this situation with my previous Master. Over the years, he came to love me so much and placed me on a pedestal, that he was no longer able to control, guide, and "Master" me - which is a fundamental need of mine. So this did cause so stress between us, and ultimately contributed to our eventual separation. I need that firm hand, that strong support, and someone to provide that structure - structure that allows me to simply relax, be myself as a slave, and exist fully in his service.

So what does that mean for me? I can serve anyone. I can - I am capable of it. However, the best reason (for me), and the only reason I will serve someone again at this stage in my life is because I adore my Owner/Master, and have the other aspects of the Owner/property relationship in addition to simply service. So in that case, yes, I am seeking love - I want it - but I need a man who needs to be an Owner like I need to be a slave. And then when we're both in that authentic place of simply being ourselves in the power exchange and the structure, then love simply is just there - and isn't a worry or a concern.

This is why I haven't rushed into slavery again - well ok, I've rushed a couple of times, but I've been smart at figuring out when a situation wasn't right for me (smiles). And I've been happy about my development as a slave as a result.

Truly, worrying about love in an M/s relationship is just the same as worrying about protocol, or structure, or rituals, or anything else. You do what works for you and your slave - and don't worry about what falls by the wayside, as it's part of being human in an authentic, loving, relationship.



Shadow-tiger -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:04:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

So what does that mean for me? I can serve anyone. I can - I am capable of it. However, the best reason (for me), and the only reason I will serve someone again at this stage in my life is because I adore my Owner/Master, and have the other aspects of the Owner/property relationship in addition to simply service. So in that case, yes, I am seeking love - I want it - but I need a man who needs to be an Owner like I need to be a slave. And then when we're both in that authentic place of simply being ourselves in the power exchange and the structure, then love simply is just there - and isn't a worry or a concern.

Aha!! There's that thought construct I had laid bare by the prose of yon fair maiden! Thank you for sharing that. [:)]



UniqueRaven -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:13:15 PM)

Ye are welcome, M'Lord. [;)]



Nineveh -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:43:39 PM)

I find that if I truly love her that deepens the control.  I should be dominating from a loving, caring space anyway.  Even if I am doing things that she genuinely does not enjoy it's for her good, not just because I enjoy it.  



sexyred1 -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:47:52 PM)

Despite the OP's dire warning that subs and slave's replies are uninformative, I am so happy everyone decided to jump right in, which as it should be when someone tries to dom the message boards.

Like the other smart people, I don't feel that one thing has more or less to do with the other. You can have love and authority or one or the other. As always, there is no one way, despite the rabid craving for one as demonstrated by the constant stream of the same questions over and over again.



Daddysredhead -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:54:56 PM)

quote:

Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority?

 
In a word... yes.

I have been with DB for over 7 years.  He loves me very much and He still maintains authority.  It's really not that hard. 

(Oh, and I answered because I wanted to.  I'm a switch, so I reached into my bag of labels and pulled out the Master tag so it's all good.)  [;)]



jujubeeMB -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 6:59:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Despite the OP's dire warning that subs and slave's replies are uninformative, I am so happy everyone decided to jump right in, which as it should be when someone tries to dom the message boards.

Like the other smart people, I don't feel that one thing has more or less to do with the other. You can have love and authority or one or the other. As always, there is no one way, despite the rabid craving for one as demonstrated by the constant stream of the same questions over and over again.


I love this post. I've never thought of that trend as trying to "dom the message boards" but you're so totally right - that's exactly what it is. Now it's going to make me laugh more every time it happens [:)]

And then the other part, about the rabid craving for one true way...maybe everyone should be sent an email when they join CM that just explains that there is no one true way, and this isn't some super selective elite club that you have to follow the rules or you'll get kicked out. You pretty much get to be whatever you can possibly dream up, and then you get to hope that you match with someone.

Kudos for the nice post, red [;)]



sexyred1 -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 7:09:18 PM)

Thanks juju. What I am also finding intriguing is that this phenomenon is happening on the Introduction threads.

All these people are posting topics, not introductions, that others are replying to and when those OP's get upset at being able to control the posts, the mods have told us to just welcome them no matter what they are saying.

So apparently you are able to dom the message boards on Introductions. Who knew?



LadyPact -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 7:10:50 PM)

Tell you what.  I'll get off of your thread when you can explain to Me why you feel that you can dictate who answers.  You may be perfectly in charge of the person that you have collared, but you're certainly not the person giving the orders on a message board.

To answer the question, no, it hasn't been an issue for Me.  Why take away the very facets that the person that you are with was craving in a relationship to begin with?  If they didn't want someone to have authority over them, why didn't they seek out a vanilla person in the first place?  The same for those who engage in S/m.  It would kind of suck for a masochist who was in a relationship with someone who started out as a sadist, who then decides that they are too much in love with them to give them the pain that they crave.  That just leaves them unhappy and unfulfilled.

What you have to realize is, these things are an expression of love in the ways that they want.  A submissive sees the person in having authority over them as being loved.  The masochist sees the person giving them pain as an expression of love.  These things are how they want to be shown that they are loved.



Nineveh -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 7:40:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
What you have to realize is, these things are an expression of love in the ways that they want.  A submissive sees the person in having authority over them as being loved.  The masochist sees the person giving them pain as an expression of love.  These things are how they want to be shown that they are loved.



This is so simple that it should be self evident, but it seems like something that people miss a lot.



NuevaVida -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/18/2010 7:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
What you have to realize is, these things are an expression of love in the ways that they want.  A submissive sees the person in having authority over them as being loved.  The masochist sees the person giving them pain as an expression of love.  These things are how they want to be shown that they are loved.



This is so simple that it should be self evident, but it seems like something that people miss a lot.



True, but this is not universal. My ex owner did not show or admit one iota of love.  His authority over me was just that - a strict authority.  There was no love in it - neither stated nor implied.  Authority is not how I see my owner's love.



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