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RE: once again, limits - 10/22/2010 11:02:14 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Cheating and lying are never ok, as several other people have said. They have nothing to do with limits, and no one should have to say that they're limits under any circumstances. Anyone who tells you that you should have clarified in the beginning that you had a hard limit of dishonesty should be summarily thrown off a building.

I'm running out of patience for the people on CM trying to pretend cheating has anything to do with poly. Poly should be something you are very, very honest about with your partner - no one should be unclear at any point about their needs on the issue, and if something changes, your partner should know about that immediately. Cheating involves lying and sneaking around, and has nothing to do with poly.


Thank you dear for confirming for me what I already knew.
Cheating and then lying about it is NOT poly and then lying is dishonesty and deception.

Some folk took a rather large leap of assuming in regards to my OP.
Thats ok...the forums/message boards are out there for anyone to say anything they blessed be want to.

But like I told another . . .  I know what I must do.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: once again, limits - 10/22/2010 11:12:30 AM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		Agreed, poly should be open and honest and up-front.

And by the way, the word for this...
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Anyone who tells you that you should have clarified in the beginning that you had a hard limit of dishonesty should be summarily thrown off a building.


...is 'defenestration'.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: once again, limits - 10/22/2010 2:25:26 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please
And by the way, the word for this...
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Anyone who tells you that you should have clarified in the beginning that you had a hard limit of dishonesty should be summarily thrown off a building.


...is 'defenestration'.


Lol! Oh my god, that's brilliant. I'm going to use that all the time now. Thanks switch

(in reply to switch2please)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: once again, limits - 10/23/2010 7:56:44 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

Agreed, poly should be open and honest and up-front.

And by the way, the word for this...
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Anyone who tells you that you should have clarified in the beginning that you had a hard limit of dishonesty should be summarily thrown off a building.


...is 'defenestration'.



I thought that applied solely to throwing them out a window, not to being tossed off the top of a building.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: once again, limits - 10/23/2010 9:21:55 AM   
xXsoumisXx


Posts: 339
Joined: 7/26/2009
From: USA
Status: offline 		You can require monogomay from a partner, regardless of the dynamic, you just have to find the right partner.
and Poly can be a hard limit, it is even a choice on this site, when checking all of those littlse boxes...
Honesty is kind of a given, in my opinion, you can't have a relationship without trust.

(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: once again, limits - 10/23/2010 9:24:03 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		It is always really low of someone to try to justify their dishonorable actions. I can't stand it when adults can't own what they do and try to play the blame game. Saying that monogamy and honesty weren't in your limits so they were fair game, is self-serving to the extreme. I am very sorry for your pain OP but from what you've posted here, I'd be glad I didn't invest yet more of my time into things.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: once again, limits - 10/23/2010 3:38:42 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

And by the way, the word for this...
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
Anyone who tells you that you should have clarified in the beginning that you had a hard limit of dishonesty should be summarily thrown off a building.

...is 'defenestration'.


I thought that applied solely to throwing them out a window, not to being tossed off the top of a building.


You're right, it is specific to throwing out of windows, but it was the first that came to mind.
If there is a word that applies to flinging someone off a building, I would be more than happy to add that to my vocabulary as well

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: once again, limits - 10/23/2010 10:54:07 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian

I have to say; Cheating is a lousy answer. Divorce is a much better answer.


Are you MAD? Divorce is a terrible answer. It's a last resort. It's painful, brutal, messy and extreme. Do this only if you absolutely hate the person you're with, have no chance of building a life with them, AND have a masochistic streak.

You're recommending a divorce based on a FORUM POSTING. Even if her story justified that step, your faith in mankind and in an angry woman's ability to have a clear perspective and/or to be honest about details is astounding.


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 3:38:00 PM   
almira


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		i'm trying to imagine someone not desiring honesty.  do some people actually enjoy being lied to?  i don't think honesty should be a limit that can be pushed.  i think it would be very hard submitting to someone who lies and you know they lie.

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 4:17:01 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian

I have to say; Cheating is a lousy answer. Divorce is a much better answer.


Are you MAD? Divorce is a terrible answer. It's a last resort. It's painful, brutal, messy and extreme. Do this only if you absolutely hate the person you're with, have no chance of building a life with them, AND have a masochistic streak.

You're recommending a divorce based on a FORUM POSTING. Even if her story justified that step, your faith in mankind and in an angry woman's ability to have a clear perspective and/or to be honest about details is astounding.



Are you serious? Why would she be MAD? She is right; divorce is vastly preferable to a relationship based in lying and cheating.

And her advice was probably not meant to address a forum posting; just the topic in general.

As for your comments about how divorce is so evil, and your generalization that you must hate the person first, or that the OP is out of control angry and that she does not have a clear perspective, they are all quite gothic and off the chart.

You obviously had a bad divorce or know of one because many divorces are amicable (mine was), I don't hate him, we exhausted our options for staying married and neither one of us cheated or lied.

As for the OP, I think she sounds very clear headed and thus, did not deserve to have you question her ability to think clearly.

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 5:57:05 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Some of the strongest marraiges that have lasted decades have many times within that marraige where the easy way out would have been divorce.  However, they pushed through and focused on reinventing their marraiges to remain together and the unit was stronger than it ever was.

I agree, divorce seems to be the easy answer in situations like this and on many levels it's what our society is -- when the going gets tough, just walk away.

I don't ever advocate strangers telling someone to get a divorce, for you could be telling two people to end something that they COULD possibly get over and become stronger because of same.  To me, divorce should be the LAST possible resort - not the first go too concept when it gets hard or someone disappoints or something gets broken. 

angel

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 6:17:41 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I do agree with you, angel, to a degree. I would always advocate working on issues; my husband and  I went to counseling for over a year before making our decision. We were married for 10 years.

So I get it; I am just saying that sometimes, people feel trapped in a situation where the other party will not try and that leaves it a one sided thing. And when that happens, divorce is better than living with someone in a terribly unhappy situation.

And definitely, too many people today give up too easily on relationships.

So after all is said and done, it depends on what the issue or issues are, whether divorce is the right thing.

No one goes into a marriage hoping it will fail.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 8:14:47 PM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian

I have to say; Cheating is a lousy answer. Divorce is a much better answer.


Are you MAD? Divorce is a terrible answer. It's a last resort. It's painful, brutal, messy and extreme. Do this only if you absolutely hate the person you're with, have no chance of building a life with them, AND have a masochistic streak.

You're recommending a divorce based on a FORUM POSTING. Even if her story justified that step, your faith in mankind and in an angry woman's ability to have a clear perspective and/or to be honest about details is astounding.


Are you mad?  Are you advocating someone staying with a betrayer, because the alternative is  brutal, messy and painful? Betrayal is  brutal, messy and painful. Especially when it's discovered.  And it's better to leave someone than it is to risk them being destroyed by the descovery that you aren't "there" with them anymore.

When people cheat on their spouses, what does this say for marriage? Why get married in the first place if you're going to cheat. If you have an open marriage, this is different, everyone knows what's going on, But cheating? Why do  you think it's called CHEATING?  I recommend divorce based on the hypocrisy and dishonesty of someone who is willing to betray someone who loves them, for what?  If the relationship is dead, and they feel the urge to be outside the marriage, be honest and terminate it.  If you absolutely hate the person you're with, cheat on them, and invalidate everything you ever shared with them. Make a mockery of your vows, and then throw them in your partner's face.  And if you love someone, have the balls to resist temptation if you went as far as to marry someone.  And if you have the nerve to tell another person your marriage is over, then you'd better terminate it, because if not, you're a liar 3 times over. Once to the spouse, once to the new partner, and once to yourself.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: once again, limits - 10/25/2010 8:17:24 PM   
SorceressJ


Posts: 2968
Joined: 7/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

I am monogamous.. ..Any Dom who lies to me or cheats will hit the curb, with my boot print on his ass, so fast it will make his Domly head spin. Lying and cheating are rock hard limits for me, and pushing them is not ever going to be acceptable.


{{{THIS}}}




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: once again, limits - 10/26/2010 4:03:03 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Honesty isn't a limit... it should be a GIVEN. If there is no honesty then there is no trust, without trust there is nothing in terms of a healthy relationship on offer. And to echo jujubee there, I'm Poly.... lies and cheating have NOTHING to do with Poly... such people are just liars and cheaters, whether they are doing so from a supposed Poly situation or a supposed mono one, same damn thing!

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
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(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: once again, limits - 10/26/2010 10:37:03 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		My condolences, OP. Without honesty you can't have trust. Without trust, love will wither and die. So without trust, you have nothing.

Cheating and lying are hard limits for most people, I'd imagine. They're what's known as "deal breakers". If you didn't tell him that before, tell him now.

Three and a half years is not that long, if you live a long life. So if you cut your losses now, you'll be alright. The longer you wait, the more damage that can be done by staying in a deteriorating relationship. And you'll never get that time back. Its his time as well as yours, that can be wasted. So sometimes love really does mean letting go.



Edited to add: I just now read Lizi's post, above. What she said.

It is unconscionable when someone uses excuses, instead of taking responsibility for their actions. When they try to put things off on you by saying there never was an expectation of honesty or of monogamy to begin with, or that these were limits they had a right to push or to break: that's a crock of shit. Don't put up with it.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 10/26/2010 11:10:05 AM >

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(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: once again, limits - 10/26/2010 10:44:03 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I agree, divorce seems to be the easy answer in situations like this and on many levels it's what our society is -- when the going gets tough, just walk away.

I don't ever advocate strangers telling someone to get a divorce, for you could be telling two people to end something that they COULD possibly get over and become stronger because of same.  To me, divorce should be the LAST possible resort - not the first go too concept when it gets hard or someone disappoints or something gets broken. 


Greetings angel,

In my opinion that's the downside of soliciting advice from outsiders. Oftentimes the suggestions are based upon their interpretation of a situation who's details are incomplete and the recommendations can be hit or miss. I concur with your sentiments and sincerely believe it is not my place to propose that anyone step away from a commitment. It's a decision the individual must make on their own. Sometimes questions are merely their desire to have a thought validated or disputed. In the end we each know where we stand and should accept responsibility for the choices made - both past and present. I recognize there are situations where irreconcilable differences make continuance an impossibility, however, the individual parties involved much reach this conclusion not well meaning strangers.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: once again, limits - 10/27/2010 1:17:47 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		RealSub58, sorry to hear about this. 
 
(nothing else to add, as others said it all)

(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: once again, limits - 10/27/2010 3:00:10 AM   
ultimatedomme


Posts: 26
Joined: 5/4/2008
Status: offline
If the OP has been disillusioned to the point where she is considering (or wondering) if something such as honestly can be made a limit, she has a problem that simply telling a perspective dominant, "honesty is a limit" ain't gonna solve.

Really, if you honestly can feel the need to state up front, "honesty is a limit" it means you're not in a place where you can trust. Any perspective relationship is likely doomed if honesty is a condition and not a given.



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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: once again, limits - 10/27/2010 5:02:58 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian


Are you mad?  Are you advocating someone staying with a betrayer, because the alternative is  brutal, messy and painful? Betrayal is  brutal, messy and painful. Especially when it's discovered.  And it's better to leave someone than it is to risk them being destroyed by the descovery that you aren't "there" with them anymore.




Actually, you're incorrect to state that divorce is the only answer. Many couples who have gone through this have gone through both marital and single therapy, they have addressed what are the underlying issues that caused the cheating and solved the problem, they recommit to each other and wind up with a relationship that is stronger afterward because of the fact that they worked on the previously unaddressed issues.

It's obvious that you are reacting out of past hurt and I am sorry for what you've gone through but that does not mean that you are correct to automatically push for destruction of the relationship and for dissolution of the family.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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