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RE: once again, limits - 11/3/2010 3:57:20 PM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

People who have never experienced marriage, let alone being deceived in a marriage, aren't really in a position to judge what others should do while in such a situation. It would be like me, who did not have kids, telling parents what they should and shouldn't do.

Hello NV - I totally disagree with you. While I may not be married, I sure do know what it is like to love someone wholeheartedly, be 100% committed to them for life, and to stand behind them, support them, and then be kicked in the teeth. That's not about marriage, that's about trust and love. The details are different, but the message is the same.

When a relationship is extremely damaged, both parties within it need to work on bringing it healthy again. It will never work if only one party is doing the work.

This, I think is right on the money - regardless of the nature of the relationship. Again, different details, same message.

For me, the decision to divorce tore my heart up, and was the toughest decision I've ever had to make. A lot of people who have never divorced like to throw around terms like "easily throw a marriage away" and "give up" and "take their commitments lightly," and they don't know what the hell they are talking about. I don't take those things personally; I simply disregard them as having no credibility. I used to feel the same, when I was sticking it out because of the seriousness in which I took my commitment. I was ignorant about it.

Sadly, people often throw stones when they don't see the deeper truth.

My ex husband broke the vows, by behaving as he did. By doing that and refusing accountability for it, he forfeited his right to hold me to those same vows. All bets were off. At that point, it was a matter of pursuing a happy and healthy life for myself - with or without him. Remaining in an ongoing abusive situation with no fix in sight was no longer an option for me. The next step for me was to accept accountability for allowing myself to be treated that way, and figure out how to not repeat that pattern ever again.

Now that, is brilliant.

Best wishes to you and yours,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 11/3/2010 4:00:08 PM >

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RE: once again, limits - 11/3/2010 8:48:43 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hello NV - I totally disagree with you. While I may not be married, I sure do know what it is like to love someone wholeheartedly, be 100% committed to them for life, and to stand behind them, support them, and then be kicked in the teeth. That's not about marriage, that's about trust and love. The details are different, but the message is the same.

Hi sunshinemiss,

Hey I completely understand where you're coming from. A strong commitment is a strong commitment. I think I was coming from the place where people talk about not taking vows seriously and then going on to quote vows they themselves have never said. I wonder sometimes if people are selective - "Till death do you part" is what people like to quote a lot, yet "I will love and honor you" seems to have become forgotten among the mix. We don't get to selectively choose vows, and if one partner decides to break a vow then the marriage as a whole is broken - either temporarily or permanently. People forget that the reason the marriage is in trouble to begin with, and even facing divorce, is because someone broke it...and broke a vow. Somehow the "victim" of that initial vow being broken becomes the bad guy, for dealing with the pain, anger and confusion of that vow being broken.

It was my error to limit it to marriage, but marriage vows are what were being examined here - the words people are being held to - as opposed to a commitment without the vows, rings, etc.

I hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

quote:

Sadly, people often throw stones when they don't see the deeper truth.

I think it's basic human nature to do so. But tossing rocks without truly understanding the depth of the situation causes me to dismiss those rocks as lacking credibility. Those kinds of rocks are made of rubber. More like super balls that bounce around, going nowhere.

quote:

Best wishes to you and yours,
sunshine

Thank you, and right back atcha.

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RE: once again, limits - 11/4/2010 1:22:16 AM

WyldHrt

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nm....

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 11/4/2010 1:39:59 AM >

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RE: once again, limits - 11/4/2010 5:21:54 AM

DesFIP

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What Paradox refuses to see is that marriage is a contract between two people. If I sign a contract to buy a car for $30,000 and the dealer then calls me up to say they don't have the one I agreed to buy, I do not still have to pay them $30,000 for nothing. Both sides must be committed to keeping the marriage healthy. In my case, I was the only one committed to it.

And as my daughter was extremely unstable at the time, and the divorce came with her psychiatrist's blessing, and as her recovery has surpassed what anyone ever believed could be the case, I will still say that divorcing him was the best thing I could have done. He demanded I choose between being a wife and a mother, by doing so he became a man I didn't like as her father, and could not respect as a wife. He broke the contract.

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RE: once again, limits - 11/5/2010 12:45:16 PM

CreativeDominant

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I stated in my earlier post what had happened with my marriage. So many people...including my ex-wife...thought the only reason I walked was due to a midlife crisis and that soon they would see "Doc" with a new car, new fucktoy, new house, etc., etc., etc.. Well, I have gotten a different vehicle in the last 10 years, used and I have had several submissives but that was not the reason...

As I stated, the reason began with her lack of commitment to making the marriage healthier (nice phrasing, nv...smiles). I believe in the commitments I make...that is why I take things cautiously, as any submissive who has dealth with me can tell you. In the last couple of years, some things have threatened to force a more cynical attitude on me but instead, I've chosen to grow...even though I lost WITH the growth. But I have learned that I don't walk away when things get tough and I've always chosen communication as a better tool rather than figuring things out by myself and coming to a significant decision without their input. (When you have a partner, isn't that what you are SUPPOSED to do?) But that does not mean I won't make the hard decision, even without input and yeah...tis horrible, terrible, hurtful, rough...but sometimes it is necessary.

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RE: once again, limits - 11/7/2010 9:55:35 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
But that does not mean I won't make the hard decision, even without input and yeah...tis horrible, terrible, hurtful, rough...but sometimes it is necessary.

Amen to that.

I gave a lot of thought to my divorce - before, during and after. I was 22 when we got married - too young to be making a life-long decision. I lacked the maturity and wisdom to understand what was required to grow a healthy relationship. I suspect this is the same for many others. I (silly me) thought we would last forever because we loved each other and wanted to last forever, however, I lacked the tools necessary. So did he.

Sadly, when one person makes the (excruciatingly tough) decision to divorce, it often means the other party does not want the divorce and doesn't take accountability for his/her share in the demise of the marriage. I'd suspect in the majority of divorces, both people are responsible, but (at least at first) only one understands the changes that need to be made but aren't happening. I personally refuse to resign myself to a life imprisoned in an unhealthy situation, simply because "I made my bed...." I owe myself better than to punish myself for a lifetime due to a bad decision.

It's easy to point to the person who decided to divorce and claim "They didn't take their vows seriously" but that's an accusation that is not based on the bigger picture. Just because the "offending" party fails to be accountable for their own broken vows, doesn't mean the person who chose to divorce is the bad guy. No one fully knows what goes on behind closed doors.

Like CD said, I also lost a lot in my decision to divorce. I lost everything in fact, but gained myself back. And that was the most important gain of all. I went through hell to get here, but I am better for it. Meanwhile my ex continues to spout his victimhood because I broke the vow of "as long as we both shall live." Until he understands the bigger picture of what happened between us, he'll never find peace and will always be the victim. If I continued to cling to the fact that he broke "I will love you and honor you," I would continue to be miserable, too.

In our case, we were separated but I really wanted things to work out. It wasn't until he quit his job and emptied our bank accounts that I felt forced to make the decision to divorce - a decision I didn't want to make. But I had to save myself.

So, I've taken what I've learned about myself, life, and relationships, and I apply them to my present and future. And I know if I'm ever again in the unfortunate position of my partner breaking vows, I will know how to communicate a resolution better, and have better tools to "fix" things, should he be willing to, also. And if he is unwilling, then I know I'd have another ridiculously tough decision to make.

Anyway, just some thoughts about divorce. Some of the comments made in this thread caused me to think about this, and I wanted to share my thoughts, for what they're worth. Decisions to divorce are rarely made lightly and are often the hardest decision anyone has had to make.

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