DMFParadox
Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
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ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
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I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. If the man was a clinical sociopath, I feel your pain. My mom was one. Never diagnosed, but... take my word for it. She had custody. Not quite a marriage; but I still had to run away when I was a teenager. That truly sucks, DMFP, and I am sorry you had to go though it.
As for my former relationship, I'll not get too into details as I feel that I have said enough about something now long over. I am not qualified to diagnose, so I will not voice my suspicions but rather stick to the facts I have already stated.
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If he was not - if he was, as has been the overwhelming lay of the land in my experience of both sexes, equal victim of tragic circumstance - then I still am sorry. It's hard to find hard lines in these situations to lay blame, and I abhor the practice of it. There is no 'either or' here, as neither choice fits. As for blame, it no longer matters. I am now out of the toxic relationship that damned near killed me. My ex is now free to find someone who is a better match for him if he chooses to do so. We are both better off, and that is what matters.
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But in the latter case, it is my belief that it can be worked out, and yes, until death do you part.
This is probably going to be taken the wrong way, but you are speaking from the perspective of someone who has never spent years, yet alone nearly a decade, trying to 'fix' a dead marriage. The truth is that once the foundation of love and trust is truly destroyed, there is nothing to do but either get a divorce, or resign yourself to living the rest of your life in misery with a person that you cannot even stand to be around. When it got to that point for me, the choice was pretty clear.
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Sorry. Don't like it, don't be attracted to liars. Don't contribute to an abusive environment where suspicion and fear create liars.
Coming from someone who has more than once advocated lying, manipulation, and deception as dating techniques, this is really funny. You know the definition of 'liar', right? I fully admit that I fell for his lies and accepted his excuses; that's on me. As for an abusive environment and it creating liars, that is almost as funny. As I found out much later, this behavior had been going on for years before we ever met, and he was a very talented liar.
Lesson learned, and the reason that I now walk at the first sign of deception or BS head games from a potential partner.
BTW. The first lie he ever told me was his age, lol.
You're right; there's no black and white.
There's sociopaths - i.e., liars and 'takers' with no sense of other people's pain. Had I met you while still married, I'd have recommended you visit a professional and get a diagnosis... and then, because psychology is still the cargo cult of science, I'd have recommended you get 2 more. if 2 out of 3 said your man was a sociopath, that'd be enough to fit my definition. Key here is that based on your description, he was.
>>We are both better off
I don't know if I believe that. Too many people are dishonest with themselves about situations like these.
>>and that is what matters.
And your vows don't?
I read recently somewhere that women will judge a man in his 40's who's never been married more harshly than one who hasn't. The idea goes that someone who's never been married doesn't know how to commit. I had to laugh at that idea... thinking that someone who can break a vow that deep could ever be able to commit to a damn thing. Also ignoring the statistics on 2nd and 3rd marriages, for that matter... I go out of my way to avoid divorcees.
You keep saying "8 years" as if that's some kind of benchmark for an acceptably long level of patience. Marriage is forever. If you want marriage with an out, set up a lesser contract; marriage for 5 years, with option to extend. Or something. I could respect that; I don't accept that it's ok to leave a traditional marriage because you're unhappy. That's the opposite of the point of the whole thing, in sickness and in health.
>>Coming from someone who has more than once advocated lying, manipulation, and deception as dating techniques, this is really funny.
As attraction techniques. By the end of the 4-6th hour or so I know somebody, I'm way past the bullshit.
Lying can also be known as 'telling a good story.'
Manipulation can be known as 'deflecting too much information too soon'.
Deception is lying. You're repeating yourself. But to be complete, deception can also be known as 'triggering interest.'
I advocate them because they work; and more importantly, the alternatives don't work, except in rare circumstances. Practically every relationship started these days, during the initial meet&greet the man says unbelievable things, obscures his intent and pokes fun at the girl. He has to, in almost all instances. I wish life were easier than that - it's hard frickin' work - but it's just the way it is.
So when I say 'don't be attracted to liars', what I mean by that is to realize that's exactly what you're attracted to, so look for men who can spin a good joke, tell a good story, and still maintain their commitments. Have steady lives and are close to their family. Which are also many of the things women are attracted to, although to get them to the point where they can see how decent you are, you often have to lie to them and manipulate them into coming along for the ride. I'm over being bitter about it, really. I'm not over the toxic effects that the complete lack of acceptance our society has about this aspect of women has on almost every aspect of adult life.
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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight
"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe
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RE: once again, limits - 
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