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Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 9:12:04 PM   
AquaticSub


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I am very maternal. I hope that Valyraen and I will have at least two children. However, at this time I have no intention of ever becoming pregnant. I truly want to have our child through adoption and Valyraen, he and his sibling being adopted themselves, has positively no problem with this.

People are often shocked by this, questioning why a maternal woman doesn't want to carry a child. The truth is, I really don't want to get pregnant. I have no desire in this world to give birth. I don't think the process is magical, I don't think it's required to create a bond between mother and child, and am physically unable to produce milk for an infant anyway - not that I really want to be a gummed at. Now, this is not to say that having biological children is wrong. I just feel no desire to actually do it myself and don't see the appeal to it that others do.

I want to adopt. I am unable to fathom the idea of a child being unwanted. It's hard to me to process that there are kids out there that need homes and people aren't scrambling to give them homes and beds and love. That's how I think and nobody is required to think the same as me. If everyone did, we'd stop making babies and that would lead to the species dying out!

I understand that not everyone is up for adopting a baby. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why do I take so much shit for wanting to adopt?

Men - I find this quite funny - tell me that I'm going to regret missing out on the experience of pregnancy and childbirth. Women tell me I'm selfish because I'm not giving Valyraen a baby. Well, I am. It just didn't come out of my womb and will probably be around 5+ years old since we don't feel like struggling to adopt an infant.

This just doesn't make sense to me. I really understand that some, maybe even most, people aren't up for adoption. But I don't understand why it's this horrible last resort thing. When I've called agencies, they wanted to know my hair and eye color to assure me that they could 'match me' with a baby. It's not a damn handbag, it's my child! I don't care he or she 'matches'! All the materials were assuring us that it was ok we are infertile, that we aren't 'wrong'.

I suspect I'm not fertile but we don't have a clue and don't intend to find out. I'd rather adopt a child who needs me than create one. And I just don't see what is so damn selfish about that. Have other people had this experience with the subject of adoption? If so, how have you handled it?

I know this probably sounds like a rant but I would like to gather more information. I fully intend to adopt and if this the crap I'm getting now, I want to know what I'm going to be dealing with when I'm actually in the process and having to explain "No, I'm not infertile, I just want to give a child a loving home".

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/24/2010 9:39:48 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 9:18:46 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		I don't see anything wrong with that.

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 9:38:04 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I actually believe that people who try to tell you that you're selfish over such things and say that you don't know what you're missing, don't know you and are being selfish themselves. I fully agree with you on how you think about this. I think you will actually have a harder time adopting than it is to get pregnant and give birth! That's easy although it can be tough on you... hell, just about anybody can. Not just anyone can adopt.

Not everyone needs to go through the process of squeezing out something huge from something forced to stretch to experience a new life, love and adore it. Most don't love being pregnant, but the new life. Anyone that can hold a newborn or any young child and say you can't love it as much or appreciate how this blessing came to be where they are... in your arms, life and heart as much if it didn't come from your body, doesn't understand love in my opinion.

Funny that even the adoption agencies can be fickle or work with people they must cater to in the personal needs to find a match in coloring, when it ought to be about loving another human being, providing a wonderful home and knowing the joys of parenthood.

Kudo's to you both for feeling as you do and I hope you find the rich blessings you seek!


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 9:53:30 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Aqua, I think a lot of you and think that you'd make a great mother.  From your description of Val, I think he'd make a good father too.  That said, I'll mention a couple of points:

1. A lot of damage can happen in five years.  I urge you to reconsider adopting a five year old.  He or she will have major behavioral issues and will strain a lot of things, including your marriage.
2. Just letting you know - adoption is not cheap.  I suggest that you check into empoloyers and see which ones provide benefits to defray some of the costs of adoption.

BTW, the men are right.  You are going to miss out on pregnancy and childbirth.  Frankly, I found it an awful experience and I only had to endure it secondhand.

I'm not convinced that you will be unable to breastfeed.  If you want, I'll give you a full examination in that area.

 


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 9:56:29 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		Aqua, I have similar plans because I know I cannot carry a child, I have never gotten any crap or grief over it like you explained. I believe its a because such a situation is far in the future,

I would suggest becoming foster parents first, It might be easier in the long run to adopt a child if you are foster parents. I know 2 women who were older and couldnt have children of their own, both ended up being able to adopt the children they fostered.

Im not sure this is the case, but it is a way for you to provide a loving home to children who need it while you look for or wait for the perfect child of your own.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:08:47 PM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Aqua, I think a lot of you and think that you'd make a great mother.  From your description of Val, I think he'd make a good father too.


Thank you so much.

quote:



That said, I'll mention a couple of points:

1. A lot of damage can happen in five years.  I urge you to reconsider adopting a five year old.  He or she will have major behavioral issues and will strain a lot of things, including your marriage.


This we know. And it's something we've talked about. There are certain things we can't deal with and some things we can. Our plan is base it on the child themselves. But I very want want to try to adopt an older child specifically because they are the ones most in need of loving homes. It may prove to be a bad decision but, for now at least, I have trouble with the idea of avoiding a child simply because they are older. Babies are easy to find homes for - there are lots of people who want babies. So I will probably only adopt a baby if a friend or friend of a friend becomes pregnant and does not want to keep the child.
quote:


2. Just letting you know - adoption is not cheap.  I suggest that you check into empoloyers and see which ones provide benefits to defray some of the costs of adoption.

This I know sadly. I have no idea if we'll be able to afford it. It is a source of great personal rage that I can be knocked up for free but have to pay through the nose to give an 'unwanted' child a home.
quote:


BTW, the men are right.  You are going to miss out on pregnancy and childbirth.  Frankly, I found it an awful experience and I only had to endure it secondhand.


LOL - That is true. I've been amused that none of the women have claimed that I'm missing out there. Just the men.
quote:


I'm not convinced that you will be unable to breastfeed.  If you want, I'll give you a full examination in that area.

 



That would be awesome. Pay particular attention to the milk ducts!


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:11:41 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

Aqua, I have similar plans because I know I cannot carry a child, I have never gotten any crap or grief over it like you explained. I believe its a because such a situation is far in the future,




Thank you for the advice and I hope that you don't ever experience the grief or crap I have. Though it's entirely possible that you won't because you can't carry. It seems like it's only ok to adopt if you can't carry a child since that is what people assume when they find out I want to adopt. It's when they realize/know that I have no intention of trying to have a biological child that they have a problem with me.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:17:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		What I am about to say does not reflect my personal view but you asked , in so many words, how anyone could think you selfish.

Well I can understand exactly that sentiment.

I can see a father or mother thinking why is she denying me the pleasure of a grandchild of my blood... I can see them not wanting to be forced to love a strangers child when you could and should provide them one of your own.

Again I am being realistic...not judgmental...I am not saying what is right or wrong but just pointing out human nature.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:27:44 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		It's not a stranger's child. It's my child. Blood and DNA means nothing to me.

And, for the record, it's not my parents who are saying this. It's people who are not related to me. So that answer really doesn't explain anything. The people who have said this are usually customers or co-workers or other people who aren't exactly friends but with whom I have regular contact.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:30:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But i wonder if your parents are thinking it?...Have you asked?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:35:30 PM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But i wonder if your parents are thinking it?...Have you asked?

Butch


A) Yes I have - many times. I love my parents and consult them about nearly everything. My Mother doesn't give a damn, my Father isn't thrilled but has repeatedly told me he will love and adore any baby I have through any means.

B) I'm not asking about them. I'm asking about people who are giving me shit for my choice. Since they don't care and my customers and co-workers aren't forced to love my child... well... doesn't really answer the question.

Now, you can believe my parents are thinking it without telling me all you want. That's another argument that people give me as to why I shouldn't adopt. Always given by people who haven't even met my parents.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/24/2010 10:38:07 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:36:25 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		Why does it have to be a strangers child? Why does dna play a part? Why does the fact that this child didnt come from my womb matter?

I was not raised by my birth parents, I was raised by grandparents, and my grandmother doesnt care if I give her grandchildren, shes never cared.

Not everyone thinks that you have to provide biological children, my family and friends are all for wanting to adopt, and adopting themselves.

I also recommend fostering again Aqua because the state does provide depending on the state money for fostering children.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:47:20 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Remember you asked a question... I added to it and you answered...you have covered the bases... but the very reason I gave you could be on the mind of others. If you don't want answers don't ask questions.

If you think your Dad is not thinking that very thing then so be it and I hope you are right… not thrilled is not a glowing stamp of approval. But of course they love you and will follow your wishes… but that does not mean they would not like it another way.

In any event you are honest, sincere and will make some child a good mother. Just don’t be so hard on people for seeing your situation differently than you.

The bottom line of course... it is none of their business and if they persist I would tell them so. I am only commenting because you asked for thoughts on the subject.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/24/2010 10:52:52 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:51:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Please... I am not defending my comments except to say people will think such things and I don't blame them.. in fact I understand these feelings right or wrong.

I would bet that the majority view of parents when faced with the situation the op is describing would think as I've described... but would also keep these thoughts to themselves.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:53:58 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Remember you asked a question... I added to it and you answered...you have covered the bases... but the very reason I gave you could be on the mind of others. If you don't want answers don't ask questions.

If you think your Dad is not thinking that very thing then so be it and I hope you are right… not thrilled is not a glowing stamp of approval. But of course they love you and will follow your wishes… but that does not mean they would not like it another way.

In any event you are honest, sincere and will make some child a good mother. Just don’t be so hard on people for seeing your situation differently than you.

The bottom line of course it is none of their business and if the persist I would tell them so. I am only commenting because you asked for thoughts on the subject.

Butch


I'm not sure you understand that situation. No offense but I'm dismissing your comments about my Dad since, if you knew him, you would know he is a man who says what is on his mind. If he felt forced, he would say so. Of course, you don't know him so you can't know that. I didn't mention my parents in my post, I really don't know you feel the need to bring them into this when they simply aren't part of the problem I'm asking about.

The only reason you could provide for people having issues with adopting was forcing them to love a stranger's child. The people who are giving me shit won't have anything to do with this child.

Can you give a reason for their behavior?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/24/2010 10:57:57 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:58:16 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		Thats Very odd because ive NEVER met anyone who would have an issue with adoption or with choosing adoption over having biological children except for 3 incompatible doms.

And Ive asked people their opinions and they told me they were being honest.

Im sure some might have been keeping their mouth shut to not hurt my feelings. However Im not sure all people or even the majority of people feel as you do.

It just seems more selfish/wrong to demand a child of your own, when their are thousands of children who need homes.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 10:59:27 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I would bet that the majority view of parents when faced with the situation the op is describing would think as I've described... but would also keep these thoughts to themselves.

Butch


Notice... not asking about parents or relatives. My family is supportive even if they have mixed feelings about it. It's people who will NOT be part of this child's life who are giving me shit.

Edited to add: I can completely understand family having mixed feelings and issues. What I don't understand are my customers, co-workers, etc who have issues with my choice in how to build my family.


< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/24/2010 11:01:26 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:10:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		First... it is a strangers child until you adopt him or her. I have no idea what was said to you or by you so I'll not comment further on the reason other than the one I already gave and you seem to not understand.

If it is not friends or relatives then I don't understand how or why your situation should or could come up in conversation unless you were the one to start it

You have your mind made up so I'll not argue with you... who am I to judge what is right or wrong for you...I wish you well.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/24/2010 11:12:06 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:15:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		ps.. you did not exclude your parents.. if you had I would not have mentioned them...they are people too. And remember there are many parents that are not yours... in fact all but two and they could be thinking the same thing... just as I did.

But please you must understand I am not saying it is right… just that it is thought.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:18:36 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		You really don't know how it could come up in casual conversation? Ok, let me enlighten you.


A:
Them: So what are you doing after work?
Me: Hanging out with my husband.
Them: You're married?
Me: Yeah, for about a year now.
Them: Aww, that's sweet. When are you doing to start going for kids?
Me: Actually we are planning to adopt....

B:
Them: So you've been married for awhile, when are you going for kids?
Me: Actually we are planning to adopt...

C:
Them: Oh my God I love my kids
Me: Aww, that's great to hear. I love kids.
Them: When are you going to have them?
Me: Not sure when I can afford it.
Them: What do you mean?
Me: Well we want to adopt so that is expensive...

Seriously, it's not that hard for this to come up with random people and it definitely comes up with coworkers.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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