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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:08:07 PM   
JohnWarren


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I received an email a while back from someone asking for help with a problem, but her third-person talk was so confusing, I'm still not sure what she was asking.  I wrote back and asked her to clarify in standard English, and I haven't heard a word from her.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:14:03 PM   
Proprietrix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca
Thank you, everyone, for replying.  However, only Merc really answered the questions.


sniff, sniff 
I answered the question the best I could based on what I had seen a couple doing at my local munch.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:17:03 PM   
valeca


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Indeed you did.  My apologies for the oversight.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:23:15 PM   
Sunshine119


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika
 However, I have often wondered why do "Masters/Mistresses" use 3rd person. I have seen this a few times granted typically online.
 
Nika{Phoenix}


I think it is like referring to themselves in the royal "we" that the Queen of England uses...oooops!  She would actually be second person plural!  Lol.....drives me nuts as well.



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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:24:08 PM   
bignipples2share


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< just sitting back laughin' >

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 2:31:01 PM   
truesub4u


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I had seen tears post once about someone talking (Posting in 3rd person dialect)... and like tears... it makes me think someones got a mouse in their pocket. It's something I was asked to be open minded about once... tried for about 1 conversation... I couldn't stop laughing... and never tried it again. I know sometimes it's used by ones that do not practice its usage when they are posting. It's just how they're able to get things across. Reading it is harder than actually listening to it. 

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 3:20:26 PM   
WikedUncle


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quote:

How many of you, Dom* and sub alike, use it in real life?


Amusing thread. See my profile up front for my general view. Third person speech appears to be another example of life imitating art.

As far as I can tell, the idea that third person speech or writing reflected submission really got traction in Marine boot camp...an experience that lasts a few weeks of a Marine's life. In earlier times, affectations such as this just as often reflected dominance rather than submission, so even the Marine precedent is a tad shaky and probably not well-thought-out.

In good moments, I take the behaviour as one of the many psychological aids people use to shed  conventional ways of thinking, in this case by doing or demanding something they think they are supposed to do to show their identity. Presumably, people worth knowing will grow out of it. In less tolerant moments, I find it supremely irritating and write off those who do it.


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 3:28:06 PM   
Lashra


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I personally can't stand it and won't listen to it. I think its the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. If they want to be objectified that much why not call themselves *dog* or *pig* of *worm*. Most of those *this boy*  *this girl* are over the age of 18 of which they are adult, so why not act like one.

~Lashra

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 3:59:52 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
A lot of the annoyance factor for me personally is about consent.  Just because I'm kinky too, please do not automatically assume that I want to participate in *any* level of BDSM roleplaying with you.  I prefer to have social interactions with other adults in a normal polite fashion that has nothing to do with our respective D/s or sexual orientations.  So if you would not talk that way to the librarian or the bank teller in your everyday life, please don't do it to me either.  I do not consent to serve as a prop for any degree of "acting out" of D/s roles by strangers. 


You know, I've never quite been able to put my finger on why third person speech annoys me so much. I always felt it had to be more than just the grammar/ease of communication issue, but couldn't place it.

This struck such a chord with me...and now I understand the deeper reasons behind it's annoyance factor for me. While I respect the rights of others to live as they please, part of me is bugged by the aspect of being nonconsensually drawn into what I see as their personal reality.

I'm not sure, on my part, whether I feel this a reasonable stance for me to take, or not. It bears some serious scrutiny.

Thank you, Najakcharmer, for this insight.

Cin

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:18:55 PM   
fyreredsub


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greetings,

this slave finds when using third person, she is quickly reminded that Master and Mistress have control of all of her. she must think before she speaks which gives Master and Mistress control of her brain and thinking in oh so many ways.

Third person does give this girl a better acceptance of her place.

this one does not find it humilating at all, humbling, yes. 

Nor do Master and Mistress practice any sort of humilation.Even when being corrected by Master and Mistress, she is still called by a term of endearment.

wishing you well



< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 4/26/2006 4:27:29 PM >


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:21:29 PM   
fyreredsub


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this one did too,lol.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:44:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Mu amusing quirk on this is that I've always used third person, as long as I can remember.  It's only randomly, and usually in expressing annoyance or humor, but imagine my surprise in coming into bdsm and finding that some people use it as a tool in their submission and perceive people differently because of it!

I've known people who could use third person speech so gracefully that you wouldn't miss a beat.

And I've known people who might as well have been shouting "Lookit me and how SLAVELY I am using third person!" for all their third person/focusing on my submission they talked about.

Most people seem to fall into the latter category.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:45:52 PM   
valeca


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So, would that be a yes, you use it when the puter is off?

Not to be obtuse, but I'm aware that the communication/interaction between some people is limited to e-mail, IM's and other means of online communication, so I'm asking specifically if anyone uses it off-line.  Since you didn't actually state whether you're online or have face-to-face interactions, I'm left a little in the dark. I'll assume you meant "in all communication" to include face-to-face interaction. I do appreciate your taking the time to answer previously, and apologize for any mistake on my part.

Maybe it might be better for me to simply ask, does anyone use "3rd person speak" in the off-line, face-to-face interactions of daily life of BDSM, or in an off-line public setting?

And again, I'm not looking for the "I like it/I don't like it" answers, or an individual's reasons for using it.

< Message edited by valeca -- 4/26/2006 4:58:03 PM >


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:47:50 PM   
LadiesBladewing


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Properly used, third-person speech does not have to butcher the English language, nor does it have to be difficult to understand or annoying. I actually use it in areas not related to anything in the lifestyle, because professional technical documents and academic papers are always written in the 3rd person.

When I first started using 3rd-person speech, it was part of my monastic training, as I studied for my ordination, and, eventually, for my extended studies as a Justiciar for our Order. I learned many things about the value of separating oneself from situations through neutral, carefully structured language. When I came into the lifestyle, 3rd person speech was already something I was familiar with, including the self-discipline and focus that it required. During my years in service, I spoke in 3rd person at all times, used it in all written communication including internet, and used it publically as well (even with family and friends). Of course, my family and friends had already been exposed to it (and to periods of absolute silence lasting as long as a month at a time) as part of my spiritual disciplines, so nobody was horribly freaked out by it. My employers even provided me with work that I was able to do under the constraints of language and silence required -- and it was respected by my co-workers (yes, I worked for a wonderful and very unusually open company at the time... it wouldn't be possible in the job and with the company that I'm with now.)

For our servants who are charged to use 3rd-person speech, they are required to use it in all formal and casual conversations within the House, and in public as well. They are required to use it in all written and internet conversations, and in all public venues unless excused, though depending on their circumstances, they may be excused from using it at work, and may be excused from using it around family members (though it is much more likely that they will have limited contact with individuals who are not supportive of their life-choice while they are required to maintain that level of discipline. It isn't a permanent discipline in our House, and not every servant is required to go through it).

I can understand that some people may get annoyed with those who use 3rd person speech, especially because so many who use it do not bother to learn how to use it with any grammatical accuracy. It would be my suggestion that, for those who are assigned to use 3rd person speech, they do everything in their power to learn how to use it correctly and gracefully. To me, that would be a -big- part of the discipline of using it in the first place. Then, I would say to those who insist on being annoyed that, perhaps, they might want to consider that their annoyance is, in a way, a form of laziness -- they don't want to take the time to interpret what people are saying... they'd rather have it be -easy- to hold a conversation than to respect the discipline that the individual using 3rd person speech is attempting. Even if they are attempting it with poor grammar, at -least- they are making the attempt to do something that is challenging and that requires thought and dedication.

That being said, this abbess wishes each and every one of you a pleasant and worthwhile evening.

Lady Zephyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

...I have three questions.

How many of you, Dom* and sub alike, use it in real life?  I've seen some people get very defensive about their use of it along with the explanations as to why it's used, and it made me wonder if it is, in fact, a part of their dynamic or off-line personalities.

For those whose reasoning is because they're told to use it by their Dominant, does this same order apply when speaking off-line?

And finally, how many, if any, have used it in a public setting?



*I recognise that the number of Dominants who use it is significantly less than their submissive counterparts, but I have seen it used.



< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 4/26/2006 4:50:29 PM >


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:53:23 PM   
valeca


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Thank you, LZ, for the indepth answer!  You covered it all very nicely, and I appreciate your taking the time.

< Message edited by valeca -- 4/26/2006 4:59:20 PM >


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 4:59:38 PM   
lilithfyre


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greetings,
lilith is a real time slave.  Master and his slave do not do the online thing at all. (we met in real time) so yes she does communicate in public speaking in third person when she is with him. Now when she is at work it is first person due to the nature of her job. It is expected of lilith to speak in third person when she is with him regardless of who is around.

Be well,
lilithfyre
Owned by Master Ramius


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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 5:00:14 PM   
Phoenixandnika


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When Jason was first training me as a slave, keep in mind he is 2nd generation lifestyler.I cried when he told me I could ONLY speak 3rd person unless at work. Today I still remember tears streaming down my face because at first it was like he had taken my identity away. After several months of it being so hard it became natural. though I no longer speak 3rd person I do remember the mind set it put me in. Would I require of it a slave or submissive in my collar. Not unless being punished or if I thought they where forgetting their place. In truth I am not sure if I miss it or not. Some days I think that reminder would be good between Phoenix and I though it would take alot of getting used to again.
 
Nika{Phoenix}

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 5:13:12 PM   
ladylexington


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Third person has always bothered me. Reading everyone's posts helped me understand why. I'm never offended when a couple uses it while addressing each other, that's their business, their scene, and God knows we're all kinky.

I am bothered -- pissed off really -- when a person uses third person when addressing me. I see it as the bottom assuming that I wish to enter into his/her form of play. Where's the consent? And, if I am playing by the bottom's rules without negotiation, who's the top?

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 5:17:50 PM   
amaidiamond


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I used to spend a lot of time in the gorean rooms online, and spoke in the 3rd parson on VC there, then it became over the phone and gradually more and more, at the time I was exploring my nature and desires and decided to look deeper into the Gorean way of things, I would speand many hours of an evening in the rooms - then it started to slip out in my day to day life, I remember once being questioned on it in work because it had happened on a call with a customer and a few times with my father too, chuckles, so it was not a case of intentionally using it in day to day life, more that i had been putting my energys into thinking of myself in that way and it came through if that makes any sense.
When I was 18/19 I decided that the D/s side of things was far more for me however i have been known to slip into the third person, and I pretty much always beg in the third person, begging is one place it definatly feels more natural.

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RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... - 4/26/2006 5:45:09 PM   
bignipples2share


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I would love to see it stay in whatever household is requiring it and not having to bother with it. If they've truly taken the time to 'make it flow beautifully', fine, that would make a difference. I think if I were younger, maybe I would be more tolerant of watching someone else train their children. My point being, why would I want to see someone have their slaves talk in this manner? I dunno, maybe there should be a forum called, "We speak in third person here" and they can learn how to use it beautifully, so you don't have to figure out what the heck is being said.
I know I don't write as eloquently as most, but I can usually get my point across without everyone having to labor too hard.

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< Message edited by bignipples2share -- 4/26/2006 5:52:10 PM >

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