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RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:18:57 AM   
DarkSteven


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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

If 19 passes next week, the new law is promptly going to get slapped down anyway. That's a shame, because the whole war on drugs has been a massive, counterproductive, waste of money and ruined lives.


Not necessarily.  You're relying on Eric Holder, who said that he intends to prosecute anyway.  It's not that cut and dried - Obama stated a year ago that the DEA's absolute last priority was to prosecute marijuana in states that have it legal. So the DEA has been ordered hands off.  Suffice it to say that if I was Obama, Holder would right now be getting some instruction on the fact that cabinet members are not supposed to speak out contradicting the President's policies.

It's not as simple as you present.


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:20:32 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I don't have a problem with making it legal. 858,000 were arrested in the US last year for this. That is a huge strain on law enforcement. Passing this proposition in CA will not make it legal however. It will have to be done on a Federal level.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 10:21:50 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

If 19 passes next week, the new law is promptly going to get slapped down anyway. That's a shame, because the whole war on drugs has been a massive, counterproductive, waste of money and ruined lives.


Not necessarily.  You're relying on Eric Holder, who said that he intends to prosecute anyway.  It's not that cut and dried - Obama stated a year ago that the DEA's absolute last priority was to prosecute marijuana in states that have it legal. So the DEA has been ordered hands off.  Suffice it to say that if I was Obama, Holder would right now be getting some instruction on the fact that cabinet members are not supposed to speak out contradicting the President's policies.

It's not as simple as you present.


I thought the hands off was in relation to medicinal marijuana

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 10:35:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It is medical marijuana

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 10:42:07 AM   
playfulotter


Posts: 2195
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I have already sent in my absentee ballot and voted yes for this measure. I don't smoke it myself currently but have in the past. I just think it will clear up the court systems of overcrowding and it isn't any worse than alcohol....I think more people are out there causing accidents high on prescription medications more than pot...but that is besides the point as no one should drive impaired on any drug and alcohol is a drug to me.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 10:48:42 AM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 10:49:02 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Since you voted for the measure, what road side tests are there to detect pot usage?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to playfulotter)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 11:29:17 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		None...and that is one of the stumbling blocks.A blood test or hair folicle test can detect it in the system...and at what levels...but cannot determine when it was ingested/smoked.
Something else that is giving legislatures reason to pause is the increased potency of som of the newer strains...for myself I say legalise it....There will be no issue locking up Cheech or Chong as he drives down the road.Vidoe tape can clear up any burden of proof...someone that demonstrably high on dope is pretty fucking obvious to the naked eye.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 2:46:29 PM   
Carouselambra


Posts: 99
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.

Thank You Jesus.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 6:20:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I would like to think you are right, Steve, and that they'll just let it slide, but respecting the will of the people doesn't always go very far, just in the courts of the People's Republic of Kalifornia. I can't see the Feds shrugging their shoulders on this one.

Normally, my bbq's just make the neighbors downwind hungry. If this thing goes through, the next big stream of smoke from my backyard might take them right through silly-hungry-sleepy-stupid.


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:27:32 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		Well, I hope they do, but I won't hold my breath.


'ear

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:38:08 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.

What decent reason is there for keeping MDMA illegal?

I'm all for RELEGALIZING MJ.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to TheRaptorJesus)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:42:42 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.

What decent reason is there for keeping MDMA illegal?

I'm all for RELEGALIZING MJ.


It's not a GOOD reason, but out of any of those I listed, MDMA is related to some (very, very preventable) deaths and is the most prone to psychological dependence.

The fact that there has been a high profile death attributed to it adds to that. I'm 100% pro legalizing it, I'm just saying if any of those listed could be argued, I'd say MDMA is it.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:44:58 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		 I believe that if it is legal, more people will use it, just like alcohol. its legal at 21 to drink how many people actually remember their 21st? How many get so piss drunk they black out?

I say until we can determine a way like we have for alcohol to be determined in the system while doing things like driving or operating machinery, that it shouldnt be legal.

Legalizing it will make some people believe driving high while on pot okay, the more people do it the stupider they will become and the more often they will do it.

Did we not learn our lesson with alcohol and drunk driving? Are we still that collectively stupid to allow something to be come legal with no way to test for it or have legal ramifications if you are driving impaired, what they are, are they different then dui ramifications?

Making it legal wont empty the court houses because more people will be caught driving impaired and that will flood it.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:49:55 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		Tutz, almost anyone who wants to smoke pot these days does. Numbers won't rise that significantly except for maybe within people older than 30. There won't be a sharp rise in high driving.

Are some people in our society so stupid to think that a plant less harmful than tobacco should be illegal? Are some people stupid enough to think that painkillers are better than pot?

Apparently at least one person is.

< Message edited by TheRaptorJesus -- 10/29/2010 7:53:42 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 7:54:59 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.

What decent reason is there for keeping MDMA illegal?

I'm all for RELEGALIZING MJ.


It's not a GOOD reason, but out of any of those I listed, MDMA is related to some (very, very preventable) deaths and is the most prone to psychological dependence.

The fact that there has been a high profile death attributed to it adds to that. I'm 100% pro legalizing it, I'm just saying if any of those listed could be argued, I'd say MDMA is it.

Got it. It's unclear as to whether some of those deaths were due to MDMA-induced hyperthermia. DanceSafe (among other testers) has found that many samples of what were sold as MDMA were, in fact, other chemicals, including methamphetamine and caffeine. Hydration appears to be the key to safe use of MDMA.

I'm all for relegalizing the Sacraments, but I'd like to see them used under the watchful eyes of trained guides using the proper set and setting protocols developed by Stanislau Grof, among others. The peyote ceremony is also a good template. Speaking of peyote, I think that peyote cultivation needs to be encouraged, as the plants are quickly disappearing north of the border.

That egoist Leary fucked things up for everybody.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to TheRaptorJesus)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 8:04:37 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

 I believe that if it is legal, more people will use it, just like alcohol. its legal at 21 to drink how many people actually remember their 21st? How many get so piss drunk they black out?

I say until we can determine a way like we have for alcohol to be determined in the system while doing things like driving or operating machinery, that it shouldnt be legal.

Legalizing it will make some people believe driving high while on pot okay, the more people do it the stupider they will become and the more often they will do it.

Did we not learn our lesson with alcohol and drunk driving? Are we still that collectively stupid to allow something to be come legal with no way to test for it or have legal ramifications if you are driving impaired, what they are, are they different then dui ramifications?

Making it legal wont empty the court houses because more people will be caught driving impaired and that will flood it.

It's my guess that you have already made up your mind, and are impervious to contrary information (see cognitive dissinance but I'll give it a shot.

MJ use and driving

Have you ever used a cellphone whilst driving?


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 8:12:25 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

First pot, then psilocybin, then LSD, then MDMA should all be legalized, regulated, and have the be(raptor)jesus taxed out of them.

There is no decent argument for keeping any of those illegal, save perhaps MDMA which was recently made legal to use to treat soldiers with PTSD.

What decent reason is there for keeping MDMA illegal?

I'm all for RELEGALIZING MJ.


Got it. It's unclear as to whether some of those deaths were due to MDMA-induced hyperthermia. DanceSafe (among other testers) has found that many samples of what were sold as MDMA were, in fact, other chemicals, including methamphetamine and caffeine. Hydration appears to be the key to safe use of MDMA.

I'm all for relegalizing the Sacraments, but I'd like to see them used under the watchful eyes of trained guides using the proper set and setting protocols developed by Stanislau Grof, among others. The peyote ceremony is also a good template. Speaking of peyote, I think that peyote cultivation needs to be encouraged, as the plants are quickly disappearing north of the border.

That egoist Leary fucked things up for everybody.



Yeah, I know many people who trip that admire Leary and I have to smack them upside the head with a bit of reality. The man was a megalomaniac that made things much more difficult for people that give entheogens their proper respect.

And I'm all for education procedure along with the legalization of them. Psychedelics aren't party drugs or things that people can or should do on Friday night to have a good time. They're tools... the keys to unlocking the doors of perception.


_____________________________

What if your God... were a motherfucking DINOSAUR?!

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 8:20:23 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Hell, who knows how many bummers that asshole caused with his "Tibetan Book of the Dead" mumbo-jumbo. I actually got sucked into that shit way back around summer 69, a bit after I first became Experienced. Not completely, but enough so that I had to unlearn quite a bit of propaganda.

Kesey screwed the pooch, too, IMO, but at least his approach didn't require a "guru" or "shaman".

No, the psychedelics are not party drugs. They are, as you say, tools for gaing access... I remain ambivalent about the use of the word "entheogen".

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to TheRaptorJesus)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Legalize IT - 10/29/2010 8:49:59 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
It's my guess that you have already made up your mind, and are impervious to contrary information (see cognitive dissinance but I'll give it a shot.

MJ use and driving

Have you ever used a cellphone whilst driving?



Yes I have, and my ability to drive safely was impaired.

You really believe your source is unbiased? I do not believe the article, it was given less credibility by the fact the first thing you see on the page is a bright yellow sign that says OWN YOUR OWN MARIJUANA BUSINESS MAKE MILLIONS

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Tutz, almost anyone who wants to smoke pot these days does. Numbers won't rise that significantly except for maybe within people older than 30. There won't be a sharp rise in high driving.



I do believe it will go up, you seem to think that drug testing doesnt hinder ones choice in what they do? What about providing for themselves and their family? Many who do not have jobs will not chance smoking if they have to go for a drug test to get employed, many companys have a random drug test policy where they can instantly fire someone for being on drugs.

I do believe this hinders or at least causes pause with many people who would likely do drugs but have such a policy in effects.

I myself personally have never done any drugs that were not prescribed by a doctor to myself. I also do not take even those unless its absolutely necessary. My family however has had different Ideals and many of my friends growing up as well as most of the people i knew did some sort of illegal substance. Pot kills brain cells, it slows reaction time, it is not less harmless then tobacco. Tobacco the plant is VERY different then the products made from them. Smoking just tobacco has Significant differences then smoking any processed type of tobacco. The Differences is the chemicals ADDED to make the products addictive.

From my knowledge tobacco does not kill brain cells, it does not impair ones ability to drive. However I know first hand pot does have that affect. There have been deaths related to smoking pot.

The difference, when its related to drunk driving the news says that, when its related to pot they simply say "drugs were involved" not what type of drug.

I guarantee, that the number of accidents and fatalities involving smoking pot will increase if the drug becomes legal.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 40
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