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I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 3:48:44 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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Okay,I have a question for conservative's.What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law?I will agree with the fact that I don't agree that America should be forced to buy health insurance or face a fine.If you want to repeal that part,go ahead.....otherwise,what else do you want to change.You want to go back to having sick people being denied health coverage?..... Just remember,Obama is still President and the Dem's do have a slim majority in the Senate... Don't expect any radical change's to the healthcare plan.... Again,just how much of this healthcare law are you Republican's looking to strip of this law you call "Obamacare"?All of it or some of it?

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Post #: 1

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 4:11:40 AM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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I want the government to stay the fuck out of my private life period, no health care, no medicare, no social security...Stick to your 18 enumerated powers and quit trying to regulate my life.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 2

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 5:36:55 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law?

Repeal it. Drive a wooden stake in its heart. Immerse it in holy water. Burn it to ashes. Shoot it in the head with a silver bullet.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 3

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 5:37:01 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
Status: offline

Gotta agree with subrob there. I've said here before, I'd be glad to give up everything I'd put into SSI so far, if they'd just let me not have to put anymore into it.

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 4

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 5:41:05 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law?

Repeal it. Drive a wooden stake in its heart. Immerse it in holy water. Burn it to ashes. Shoot it in the head with a silver bullet.

And replace it with?

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 5

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 5:49:13 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Start with portability and buying insurance across state lines. Add tort reform. Throw in some deregulation (are you aware that many states forbid insurance companies from paying more than a certain percentage (usually 60) of their gross out in claims?)

I'm happy right there.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 6

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 6:44:35 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

You do understand that without the individual mandate, all those other wonderful goodies fall apart as well, right, Charles? That's where the money comes from.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 7

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:06:56 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Start with portability and buying insurance across state lines. Add tort reform. Throw in some deregulation (are you aware that many states forbid insurance companies from paying more than a certain percentage (usually 60) of their gross out in claims?)

I'm happy right there.

This. Porability alone will significantly decrease healthcare costs. Competition has a funny way of decreasing the price of goods.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 8

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:36:18 PM

hertz

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Joined: 8/7/2010
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Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance?

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 9

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:39:00 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance?

You dont need insurance to receive treatment.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 10

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:42:57 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance?

Under the previous system, any child could get a government medical card, regardless of the parent's income, up to $40k or more a year (and double or triple that in some states) through a state-run, and federally funded program.

Adults, if they were disabled, or below the poverty line, had a very similar program, but the income levels were lower.

For the able-bodied adults, who made enough money, they had the choice of getting it from the company where they worked, or paying for it themselves, or going bare.

Anyone could receive medical care at any government owned hospital. They might attempt to collect, but if you filed "penury" paperwork, they would write it off.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 11

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:52:08 PM

hertz

Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie?

Found a useful resource here.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 12

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 2:55:39 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie?

Found a useful resource here.

Yes, its just a lie or arguments about inconvenience, stigma, etc.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/4/2010 2:56:07 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 13

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 3:01:06 PM

hertz

Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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So this is what?

quote:

They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life....

In the first two days, more than 1,500 men, women and children received free treatments worth $503,000 (£304,000). Thirty dentists pulled 471 teeth; 320 people were given standard issue spectacles; 80 had mammograms; dozens more had acupuncture, or saw kidney specialists. By the time the makeshift medical centre leaves town on Tuesday, staff expect to have dispensed $2m worth of treatments to 10,000 patients...

Although the Americans spend more on medicine than any nation on earth, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. Many of those who have jobs can't afford coverage, and even those with standard policies often find it doesn't cover commonplace procedures. California's unemployed – who rely on Medicaid – had their dental care axed last month...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html

Propaganda?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 14

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 3:06:25 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie?

A lot of it has to do with the fact that often times the very people who can take advantage of some programs, don't.

Like collecting taxes out of a paycheck, some people believe that if you make it mandatory, and take the "effort" out of applying and maintaining your paperwork for you, that is better.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 15

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 3:10:08 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

So this is what?

quote:

They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life....

In the first two days, more than 1,500 men, women and children received free treatments worth $503,000 (£304,000). Thirty dentists pulled 471 teeth; 320 people were given standard issue spectacles; 80 had mammograms; dozens more had acupuncture, or saw kidney specialists. By the time the makeshift medical centre leaves town on Tuesday, staff expect to have dispensed $2m worth of treatments to 10,000 patients...

Although the Americans spend more on medicine than any nation on earth, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. Many of those who have jobs can't afford coverage, and even those with standard policies often find it doesn't cover commonplace procedures. California's unemployed – who rely on Medicaid – had their dental care axed last month...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html

Propaganda?

Exactly

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 16

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 3:24:36 PM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

Greetings Charles....

The other big reason many conservatives and some other people do not like it is that they see it as the first major step to socialized, government run healthcare as it exists or existed in much of Europe and the former communist countries. The reason they don't want that is because it has been shown to not work as claimed and in most cases resulted in worse healthcare than exists in the US right now. This is why many countries have cut back what they were doing or as England has done, limit the amount they will spend on health care per year and decide who is worth treating more than superficially.

For example, I have a friend in England who was on the waiting list to get on the waiting list for an appointment to see a dentist. No, I am not joking. I am repeating what he told me. If he ever got an appointment the care would be free. He had already been on the current waiting list for more than a year the last time I talked to him about it. Free care you wait years to get is not good care. The government bureaucrats deciding when they have spent enough money on you so you don't get any more care is not good care. Governments cutting back how much care they will allot their citizens based on tax income is not good care.

Yes, I am in the no socialized/government run medicine camp for those reasons. It has nothing to do with my politics. It has everything to do with what works and what has proven to not work. No, I don't buy the arguments that the US can do the same thing better. I have heard a definition of insanity being doing exactly the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I don't believe the "We will do it right this time," argument. That trick has never worked.

Be well....

Malkinius

_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is community.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 17

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 4:04:13 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I don't exactly want a single payer system either.It does ration care and that's not good.I like to follow Canadian new's new's from time to time and it seem's the majority of Canadian's on the otherside of this debate.They want keep their healthcare system a public only system.They seem to frown upon private clinic's.I believe both side's of the debate are too extreme......An only sinle payer system dosen't work.... At the same time thoug,an all-for-profit system isn't exavtly the best answer either.Insurance companie's are in the buisness of making money,not helping people..... There must be some reasonable compromise.I am practical and realistic.It should be what work's best...... People should not be denied healthcare because of any prior health condtion's.That's immoral and wrong,period.There is no "window dressing" this issue and trying to make it seem like that's perfectly okay.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 18

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 4:39:06 PM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

Repeal the entire law and start from scratch. Everyone keeps saying that there are 30 million Americans without insurance. Work on getting those people coverage, and leave the rest of it alone.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 19

RE: I am not buying it - 11/4/2010 4:49:35 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie?

A lot of it has to do with the fact that often times the very people who can take advantage of some programs, don't.

Like collecting taxes out of a paycheck, some people believe that if you make it mandatory, and take the "effort" out of applying and maintaining your paperwork for you, that is better.

Firm

You mean the programs that many complain are social programs and should be defunded as well?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 20

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