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RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 2:10:15 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

really??? So which memo included the state regs limiting how much insurance companies can pay out in claims?

I'm not sure what you are referring to here, because as usual you posted nothing to verify it, and I'm not going to do your work for you by researching it myself.

So, if you want me to take it credibly show me some information backing it.

My guess is that the limitation is based on the amount of reserves the insurance company holds, which would have the effect of them not taking on clients they were unable to provide proper coverage for. In other words, not overextending themselves as the banks and mortgage companies did.

Yet, you want more deregulation after that mess.

So tell you what, provide me some links to back this point and explain your other two points and we can have a nice little discussion.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 41

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 2:32:36 PM

hertz

Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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I don't understand why there is an argument about this. Either it is a lie that the poor cannot get medical care, or it is a lie that they can. I still don't know which it is, and I don't understand why some of you believe different stuff than others about what should be a simple matter of fact.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 42

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 3:16:26 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I don't understand why there is an argument about this. Either it is a lie that the poor cannot get medical care, or it is a lie that they can. I still don't know which it is, and I don't understand why some of you believe different stuff than others about what should be a simple matter of fact.

Binary thinking is rarely accurate or helpful when talking about people.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 43

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 3:37:15 PM

hertz

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I'm not really talking about people though, am I? Either health care in the US is available to everyone, or it isn't. There's no halfway measure. It either is, or it is not.

Some people suggest that tens of millions of people in the US have no access to health care. fact, or fiction?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 44

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 3:39:46 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I'm not really talking about people though, am I? Either health care in the US is available to everyone, or it isn't. There's no halfway measure. It either is, or it is not.

Some people suggest that tens of millions of people in the US have no access to health care. fact, or fiction?

Yes, you are talking about people.

I think you are attempting to force the world into your own simplistic view, so that you can make political hay for you own reasons.

People don't like to be shoved and straight-jacketed into someone else's definitions, because reality, society and human nature is not always so easily forced into cookie cutters.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 11/5/2010 3:40:19 PM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 45

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 3:48:24 PM

hertz

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Maybe you could just answer the question instead of wandering off into some sort of pseudo-philosophical discussion about what the question means? I don't care what the question is about or how simple it is. I just would like it answered.

quote:

Some people suggest that tens of millions of people in the US have no access to health care. Fact, or fiction?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 46

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 3:51:50 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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I think it probaly depend's on what part of the USA you live in that depend's on how well one can get medical care without private insurance.In general though,I think the very dirt poor can get some form of charity healthcare.It's the middle class who are really screwed.Either they make too much money to get government healthcare or they make too little to be able to buy private health coverage.... In my local county where I live,those making under $900 a month can recieve medical care through the local county health department.They can see a regualr Doctor and get help.This dosen't pay for E.R. healthcare cost's though.There is also alot of private charity help in this area as well.... It really just depend's on your location I think.

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 47

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 4:19:04 PM

subrob1967

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Every state I know of has a program to help the poor without medical coverage, get the treatment they need, this is and should remain a state matter, and not one for the federal government.

If you're really that concerned about it, move to Massivetwoshitts, they'll be happy to cover you.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 48

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 4:47:13 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Maybe you could just answer the question instead of wandering off into some sort of pseudo-philosophical discussion about what the question means? I don't care what the question is about or how simple it is. I just would like it answered.

quote:

Some people suggest that tens of millions of people in the US have no access to health care. Fact, or fiction?

As with anything in the US it is not can poor get healthcare...or can the rich get better health care but can the majority afford adequate healthcare. It is now getting to where it is a financial burden that is limiting their quality of life. It is like being blackmailed or working and buying from the company store.

It is not about taking care of the poor, which we do, it is not about government entitlements… it is about decent, fair, affordable healthcare for the majority.

It does get to me a little bit when countries look down their noses at us because we don’t have free healthcare. Like anything else in this world it comes down to can we afford it at the government level. If we could we would but we can’t so we need to find alternative means that fit our nation not yours.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 49

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 4:57:42 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Maybe you could just answer the question instead of wandering off into some sort of pseudo-philosophical discussion about what the question means? I don't care what the question is about or how simple it is. I just would like it answered.

quote:

Some people suggest that tens of millions of people in the US have no access to health care. Fact, or fiction?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Just answer "yes" or "no"! We don't need any of your excuses - just answer yes or no!

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to hertz)

Post #: 50

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 5:20:38 PM

defiantbadgirl

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Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either.

Explain to me how a person can get health care without money or insurance. If you go to the ER because you don't have money or insurance, you are taken to court where you can lose your house if you own one and/or have your wages garnished. How does that not relate to money? Are you also saying that hospitals can't refuse to perform surgeries or provide cancer treatment to people without money or insurance? In Kansas, any non-disabled adult making over $200/month is not eligible for medicaid because they make too much money. People whose incomes are low enough to receive food stamps are told they make too much money to be eligible for medicaid. The health care plan passed by congress included a public option and medicaid income guidelines were reasonable, but the stupid senate refused to pass it. They came up with their own plan with no public option and income eligibility for medicaid was set much too low. Because of the senate, the new health care plan isn't good enough but it's better than nothing and republicans want to repeal it. I'm pretty sure the reason the house bill didn't pass in the senate is votes were bought. Nothing decent will ever get passed in the US because of big businesses buying votes. As soon as my Sir and I are finished with college, we're moving to Canada. As soon as we're eligible for Canadian citizenship, we are renouncing our US citizenship. I'm tired of being a citizen of and paying taxes in a country that doesn't give a shit about its people.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 51

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 5:37:45 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either.

Explain to me how a person can get health care without money or insurance. If you go to the ER because you don't have money or insurance, you are taken to court where you can lose your house if you own one and/or have your wages garnished. How does that not relate to money? Are you also saying that hospitals can't refuse to perform surgeries or provide cancer treatment to people without money or insurance? In Kansas, any non-disabled adult making over $200/month is not eligible for medicaid because they make too much money. People whose incomes are low enough to receive food stamps are told they make too much money to be eligible for medicaid. The health care plan passed by congress included a public option and medicaid income guidelines were reasonable, but the stupid senate refused to pass it. They came up with their own plan with no public option and income eligibility for medicaid was set much too low. Because of the senate, the new health care plan isn't good enough but it's better than nothing and republicans want to repeal it. I'm pretty sure the reason the house bill didn't pass in the senate is votes were bought. Nothing decent will ever get passed in the US because of big businesses buying votes. As soon as my Sir and I are finished with college, we're moving to Canada. As soon as we're eligible for Canadian citizenship, we are renouncing our US citizenship. I'm tired of being a citizen of and paying taxes in a country that doesn't give a shit about its people.

repeat: buh bye

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 52

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 6:36:39 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Every state I know of has a program to help the poor without medical coverage, get the treatment they need, this is and should remain a state matter, and not one for the federal government.

If you're really that concerned about it, move to Massivetwoshitts, they'll be happy to cover you.

If by "health care" you mean access to overburdened emergency rooms or hopelessly understaffed local clinics you are correct.But if when one says "health care" they are referring to quality preventive medical care,regular checkups and longterm treatments for cronic conditions the answer is a resounding NO.
Now my definiition of health care is not limited to having my head stitched after the car accident.....or being stabilized after a heart attack..That is basic ER care..not health care.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 53

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 7:09:13 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Every state I know of has a program to help the poor without medical coverage, get the treatment they need, this is and should remain a state matter, and not one for the federal government.

If you're really that concerned about it, move to Massivetwoshitts, they'll be happy to cover you.

If by "health care" you mean access to overburdened emergency rooms or hopelessly understaffed local clinics you are correct.But if when one says "health care" they are referring to quality preventive medical care,regular checkups and longterm treatments for cronic conditions the answer is a resounding NO.
Now my definiition of health care is not limited to having my head stitched after the car accident.....or being stabilized after a heart attack..That is basic ER care..not health care.

Bullshit, Indiana has a program called HSI or Health Services for the Indigent, which covers ALL medical bills 100% on ANY life threatening health problem, including chronic.

No they don't cover yearly check up's, if you're too poor to pay $60 for a yearly check up, I'd suggest you drop your internet, cable tv or cell phone for a month, instead of burdening the rest of us with the bill.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 54

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 7:22:53 PM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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The health care bill will not be repealed.

I doubt there will be blood in the streets over it.

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 55

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 7:23:36 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

So in Indiana as long as a condition threatens your life you can get treatemnt.....but if something just impacts your "quality" of life.....tough shit?
As I said we disagree on the definition of basic health care.One more disagreement amidst many.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 56

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 7:32:11 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

My guess is that the limitation is based on the amount of reserves the insurance company holds, which would have the effect of them not taking on clients they were unable to provide proper coverage for. In other words, not overextending themselves as the banks and mortgage companies did.

As I understand it, your guess is pretty close. Insurance lobbyists convinced state legislatures that such regulation was in the best interest of the consumer because it helped ensure the profitability and stability of the insurance companies.
Anything but the free market!!!
I read a lotta stuff, I hear a lotta stuff, I post a lotta opinions. A quick coupla googles didn't show this up. You want to opine it just ain't so, go right ahead. You want to search for something that looks factual that says it just ain't so, best of luck to you. But what we need is an insurance guy....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 57

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 8:46:41 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

Badgirl,that's not a bad idea.Canada is a nice country.Shoot,I could live in southern Ontario and still be close to my hometown of Rochester,NY.Only thing is it does get pretty cold up there,so bundle up!!!

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Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 58

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 8:55:10 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

The reality is that the entire healthcare bill is not going to be repealed.I say instead of scrapping the whole bill and starting over,work on trying to improve the health bill.The bill has some good thing's.Stick with what work's and enhance that.

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Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 59

RE: I am not buying it - 11/5/2010 9:42:15 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

The reality is that the entire healthcare bill is not going to be repealed

I bet your reality a couple months ago was that the dims would hold the House.

1. Many- including me and the attorneys general of almost half the states- say SCOTUS will repeal the mandate provision. Since, in their moonbat haste to pass this badly flawed bill, the Dims left out a severability clause. a finding that one part of it is unconstitutional probably means all of it is unconstitutional. In any case, killing the mandate necessitates repeal since the mandate is the only possible financial underpinning for the law.
2. McConnell and Boehner know they either kill this thing or seek employment elsewhere. Boehner definately has the power to defund it. He has already said, essentially: "Whatever it takes for as long as it takes".
3. The Republican House is going to go through every provision of this thing and require department head after department head to respond, under oath, committee by committee, to questions designed to show the American public exactly how bad it is. Every gaffe, every revelation, every detail, will be hammered, day after day after day after day, by every conservative talk show in the country; and, to a lesser extent, by Fox News. This will specifically include close scrutiny of every one of the (tens of) thousands of regulations as yet unwritten by HSS and others.The minority support this godawful legislation now enjoys will be driven down further.
4. Meanwhile, every bill the House passes will have one or more amendments gutting one or more pieces of this Frankenstein. 0bama0 will not be able to sign a resolution condemning pedophilia without also making making one more contribution to the death of a thousand cuts this thing will suffer.

All of this will take place against a backdrop of 24 democrat Senators, many from red/purple states, fearing for their political lives as 2012 approaches.

Finally, before you cry: "Foul" at brief synopsis of some of the tactics we will use to kill 0bama0Care, please take a deep breath and consider the lies, bribes, threats, and flat-out abuse of power by which this monstrosity was created. The dims used every weapon at their disposal to pass it; you cannot expect us to do less to kill it.

Which reminds me. The "doctor fix". New thread soon.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 60

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