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ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Her description of the differences between the male and female experience was spot on.

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ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
Yes, I chose to show the exact opposites for a reason. We read over and over how few women like a man who “shows his belly” to every D-type that comes his way. I’m curious what the opinions would be for the other extreme. I’ve noticed recently that some of the more combative (is that the right word?) men who identify as being submissive posting here have a more aggressive attitude.

This is also why I asked for each person’s definition of aggressive and assertive. I’m starting to see that it really is down to interpretation.

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I'd happen to agree with your assessment regarding the combative stance of some males who post here. You're spot on with the term as a description.

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This is also why I asked for each person’s definition of aggressive and assertive. I’m starting to see that it really is down to interpretation.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Which takes us right back to what BonesFromAsh said on the matter.  Open to personal interpretation.

People do place their own connotations on words.  A very good example of this is the word "judgment" that gets thrown around here a lot.  I've written a number of posts on threads here that saying that the word isn't automatically linked to a negative context.  It's probably the same case here.  I might even go so far as to say that I think personal influence and association is how we view a number of words. 

In addition, we have to consider that a certain word has multiple meanings.  All of the definitions of a word can be correct, but we associate the word in our mind with the definition with the one that works for us to convey the meaning.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

To me assertive and aggressive are very similar in meaning. I think people use one word when they don't like the way a person is responding or saying and another when they want to agree in most cases.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
Look at that shit will ya..We agree..Is this #2 :)

On the last part I think some of us are more and less in-tune with an ability to use the correct definition when it's properly applicable. As in painting with a broad brush and using only one color.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
Ya know the type.."A leader, leads best when he follows first"..Next we'll be saying it's okay if the submissive leads the relationship because the Dominant says so..I can see it now.

The Dom is now subservient and the sub takes the reins..woohoo.

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This isn't my particular kink, but one successful dynamic I have seen in some of the long term femdom couples I know is that the dominant woman is very much a pampered princess and her submissive Knight takes charge of building the castle to make her happy and fighting all her dragons for her. He's the aggressive one, but there's no question who his aggression serves. He worships her soft femininity and is absolutely obedient and devoted. She graciously accepts his devotion and gives him direction and inspiration as he lives to serve her. This is a completely valid and workable model of a D/s relationship.

I'm not the pampered princess type of dominant, but I do delegate responsibility for managing areas of our shared life to my primary partner. I can overrule him on any decision he makes, but if I didn't believe he was intelligent and competent with sound judgment, I wouldn't have given him that responsibility in the first place. So I'm fairly unlikely to overrule him. He is better than me at organizational systems, so he balances the budget and keeps our social calendar. I am not an organized person by nature, but I like having things organized. Ergo it's his job to do it for me.

Effectively he does have the reins in some areas of our life. He drives the carriage, but the end result is that the carriage arrives at the destination I picked. He chooses the specific route based on his skill and experience and his knowledge of my general preferences, and he's quite good at it. If I had to micromanage him, I wouldn't want him serving me. So yes, he does lead when I say so, because I say so. Not because he is dominant, but because I believe him when he says that we need to do X in order to achieve the end goal that I desire. I like having competent submissives and I like delegating responsibility intelligently. It gets a hell of a lot more accomplished than if I trust no one and micromanage everything myself.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
Completely trading places while still retaining the title of Master or slave..as much as I believe in perspective lives, there is a line. You may say..."Hey, even that is subjective" but there comes a point when I'll call bullshit.

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ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
Completely trading places while still retaining the title of Master or slave..as much as I believe in perspective lives, there is a line. You may say..."Hey, even that is subjective" but there comes a point when I'll call bullshit.

The point at which you'll call bullshit is likely to be different from the point someone else will.  Some people would tell me I'm not a "real dom" because I don't micromanage.  There probably does come a point on the spectrum where 99.9% of people asked will say that this isn't a D/s relationship, or that the D/s dynamics are reversed.  But the most important point I think is this: are the people involved happy in the long term, and do they feel that they have a good D/s relationship?  Everything else is pretty much gravy. 

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I think it's been more than two in the entire history. There's got to be more in there somewhere. (I did just happen to read your opinion of a particular movie, so I can promise that it's at least three.)

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Even you say that an aggressive partner wouldn't especially work out well in your personal relationships, which I think it where BonesFromAsh was looking at from the beginning.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That kind of leadership can go so far that it can be compared to that of the sage in Taoism.  He 'does nothing, but everything is done through him'. I've heard of slaves in Greek and Roman history who led their masters and mistresses in that way - and the theme's even portrayed, in a light-hearted way, by P G Wodehouse in the relationship between Bertie Wooster and his (much wiser and more astute) butler, Jeeves.

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ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

Agreed. The better you are at leading, the less you have to do it. Sometimes giving a general direction and letting go gives the most efficient results.

During a scene, you can focus on micromanaging everything, but I don't see the reason to do so the rest of the time.