RE: Another Tribute to Veterans

RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 5:40:40 AM)
When I joined the USAF as a teenager, I wasn't thinking about war or really stupid wars, I was thinking about tuition and travel benefits. Teenagers aren't known for thinking things through. The older wiser me wouldn't enlist, but is glad the younger me did. VA medical benefits: everything is free; nothing is available In August, I asked my primary care provider for a referral to the GYN so I could get an ultrasound for a chronic condition. In September, the GYN put in a referral to the closest facility that does this, which is 58 miles away from me. 58 miles is a LONG way in South Florida traffic. In October, having received a letter with directions to the West Palm Beach facility but no appointment, I called Radiology. The woman said she saw the referral but not the order, and that I needed to speak to Denise. I left a message for Denise, who did not return my call. Later in October, I sent a fax to my primary care provider, explaining that I had not received an appointment and would she please help. She did not reply. Monday, I saw my PCP. She looked up the referral and said it was stuck in Fee-Based Services. She left a message at Miami. I said that my referral was to WPB, would Miami be able to help? She said yes, they are connected. Yesterday, Miami called me and said I needed to speak to WPB, they are not connected. She did not have the extension. I called WPB and the system told me that I was # 27 to reach the operator. I stayed on hold for a while and when the system told me I was # 22, I left a call back number. The operator called me back and I got the extension for Fee-Based Services. This went into a loop - no person or machine picked up - I kept going back to the main recording. Sighing, I pressed 0 for the operator. When I finally got someone, I explained that the extension was not working, that it was in a loop and no one picked up and I did not get voice mail. He asked me if I would like him to send a tech for the (something). I said, "No, I would like to speak to someone at extension XXXX. So he transferred me, back into the loop! It was around noon, and I figured the person at extension XXXX was taking a lunch break - clever scheduling as this is the time her customers are also taking their breaks. I finally got a person at 3 PM. Pilar said that I did not need Fee-Based Services, I needed Fee-Based Services GYN and that she would leave them a message and to call Suzanne if I did not get a response by Friday. I am not holding my breath. Good thing my need for an ultrasound is not related to pregnancy!

LadyPact -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:27:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue On a related note, did you see the other day that someone's now been jailed in the UK for trolling? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that; on the one hand what the guy did was vile, and he was clearly dumber than a box of rocks, but on the other it's yet another nail in the coffin of free speech in the UK. Not that we ever had it in the first place, of course. One good thing we could take note of from America is a written constitution. This is off the topic, but if you have a link to the news story on that, I'd be very interested to see it.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:32:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama When I joined the USAF as a teenager, I wasn't thinking about war or really stupid wars, I was thinking about tuition and travel benefits. Teenagers aren't known for thinking things through. The older wiser me wouldn't enlist, but is glad the younger me did. VA medical benefits: everything is free; nothing is available What really grinds my gears, as I've said previously, is when vets can’t get the clinical and psychological services they require. Regardless of one’s attitude to war, the military, whatever, it should be a priority for a country to look after its serving citizens in the very best way it can. Or, if not the very best (I presume budgets rear their ugly heads everywhere these days), then at least a basic level of competent care. In the UK we’ve gone through several really stupid phases; phase one was (and the “voice” here is the near-clueless Ministry Of Defence (MoD) - “good lord, we’re fighting a war and we’re getting injured people coming back? How did that happen? We’ve given them guns for god’s sake, what's the bloody problem?” – to put it simply, there was little between the field nursing stations and the hospitals back home or in the Middle East. Result? Soldiers were injured, got good battlefield care, were stabilised, were then evac’d at high cost ... and then died waiting for ITU beds elsewhere. That took about 4 months to sort out. Phase Two was “these chaps have lost limbs! In a war! How did that happen?! What on earth are we expected to do about it?!” ... virtually no ramping up in aftercare and artificial limb (and wheelchair) design and production occurred, so there were huge bottlenecks. That took about 9 months to “sort”, although many would argue it’s still pretty woeful. Phase 3 was a corker: “We don't have enough beds in military hospitals in the UK to cope, so I’ve had a brilliant idea Jasper! The UK’s got the civilian NHS – what we’ll do is bump the returning vets to the top of every waiting list, so they get treated sooner! We’ll give the NHS a bit more money to help them cope of course” ... “I say Tarquin, what a super idea!” ... yeah, like that didn't cause huge resentment on the part of civilian patients, many of whom had been suffering for a long time, and didn't get up the noses of a lot of surgeons and others. Oh, and the “extra money” they allocated was only about 60% of what was actually being incurred in real terms, meaning that regular services were stretched to the limit and beyond. I think part of the problem with the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict was that it was all so rushed; no-one did any real estimates as to the likely cost (in money, not people – I presume they'd always do a force depletion estimate), and everyone in power at the time completely underestimated how long they'd be there for. But, even having made that mistake, they then (in the UK at least, I can’t speak about the US) didn't allocate anything like the resources they needed to, to either equipment (we had people fighting without even basic body armour in some areas at the start, and dying as a result) or longer term clinical care. Which brings us to the biggie; psychological care. Post fire-fight you're lucky if you get a 15 minute “briefing” along the lines of “if anyone thinks they're fucked up in the head as a result of last week’s punch-up, fuck off and see the padre”. At the end of your tour you will, if you're lucky, be informed you can see an army psychologist, where you'll almost certainly be told you “aren’t an immediate danger to yourself and others”. I don't agree with sending people to war/”conflict”, to police parts of the world we don't like, but if we’re going to send them then we have a moral obligation to look after them in mind and body. I’d also like to see the UK government to be more honest and accurate about the true cost of such actions – some estimates put the cost to the UK of the war at something in excess of 25% more than the stated cost. So far. It’s a fucking disgrace.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:40:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue On a related note, did you see the other day that someone's now been jailed in the UK for trolling? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that; on the one hand what the guy did was vile, and he was clearly dumber than a box of rocks, but on the other it's yet another nail in the coffin of free speech in the UK. Not that we ever had it in the first place, of course. One good thing we could take note of from America is a written constitution. This is off the topic, but if you have a link to the news story on that, I'd be very interested to see it. Not a problem, 2 ticks ... <googles> ... here you go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11650593 There are other articles elsewhere - google for "man jailed for trolling" and you should be there. Note that, in the UK, sending "malicious communications that are grossly offensive" is a criminal offence, since the 2003 Communications Act. The one that did somewhat annoy me was the chap who was being prosecuted (the last I saw) for being delayed at an airport, putting "I should come back and blow the bloody place up" on his twitter or Facebook page, and was then subsequently arrested for the "crime". In the troll's case I think the thick prat probably got his just desserts, although I do have several human rights/privacy issues with it; in the latter case I'm dumbfounded as to both the stupidity of the authorities, the waste of time, money and police resource, and the personal freedom/expression issues it raises.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:47:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue The one that did somewhat annoy me was the chap who was being prosecuted (the last I saw) for being delayed at an airport, putting "I should come back and blow the bloody place up" on his twitter or Facebook page, and was then subsequently arrested for the "crime". Here's details on that one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/7016266/Man-arrested-under-Terrorism-Act-for-Doncaster-airport-Twitter-joke.html I mean, really? FFS.

tazzygirl -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:53:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Approximately 86% of non-military blue-collar Americans have never left North America. I would love to know where you got your percentage from. I've seen figures that say that only 25% of Americans of any category have passports, so I can well believe that figure. But yes, a definitive reference would be smashing. Interesting. Up till 9/11, passports werent required for some destinations outside of the US... cruise ships didnt require them either. The US military can travel on their military ID. So, a bit silly using a passport percentage.

LadyPact -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 6:56:24 AM)
Very interesting reads. Thank you for sharing them.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 7:06:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Approximately 86% of non-military blue-collar Americans have never left North America. I would love to know where you got your percentage from. I've seen figures that say that only 25% of Americans of any category have passports, so I can well believe that figure. But yes, a definitive reference would be smashing. Interesting. Up till 9/11, passports werent required for some destinations outside of the US... cruise ships didnt require them either. The US military can travel on their military ID. So, a bit silly using a passport percentage. http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/ Now obviously, if there are places one can go without a passport then fine, it's not 100% accurate, granted. But it is a least an indication as to travel habits of Americans. And it's only 22% of the population. One could also argue that, in the case of cruise ships, if you're not leaving the ship at foreign ports (which I presume you'd not be able to do without a passport?) then you're not really "leaving the US" as such in the first place. But it's not something I want to argue over, I was merely curious. FYI: It wasn't me who made the original claim of 86% of the blue-collar, non-military population. But it doesn't seem hugely wide of the mark, given the passport percentages. Of course, being such a large and varied land, there is presumably less drive for many Americans to travel to other countries, but if I’m honest I would say that, given that travel does indeed broaden the mind, it would certainly seem reasonable that a less well-travelled populace would logically be a tad less open-minded? Maybe?

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 7:15:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Very interesting reads. Thank you for sharing them. Happy to help, as always. The more I read the Twitter one the more insane it sounds ... but we in the UK have a long and shameful history of using Acts of Parliament intended for one situation to operate as a blunt instrument in another. The latest are the raft of “Terrorism” laws brought in post 9/11, which have been used to a) hassle photographers, b) hassle various ethnic groups the Met don't like (not a great many terrorists from the Afro-Caribbean community, in fact, none so far, and yet those laws are being regularly used to and search young black males just down the road from where I live) and, in a number of almost surreally daft cases, hassle train spotters. http://www.libdemvoice.org/baker-innocent-trainspotters-hassled-under-antiterrorism-laws-9866.html I can’t find the latest figures for the total number of people stopped and questioned under the Terrorism laws, but I do recall it was in the order of 250,000+ the last time I looked. And the number of arrests for terrorist activities as a direct result of said stopping and questioning? None. Zero, Zilch. Not a sausage. Bugger all. What gets me is people who still don't think the UK needs a written constitution because we’re “protected by parliament and convention”. Yeah, that seems to be working a treat guys ...

Jaybeee -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 7:52:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee We ALL have feelings here, as human beings. Ah but trolls don't work that way and I genuinely had no idea whether you were trolling or not. You have to admit you do go in somewhat "full-on". Personally, I think that if one's trying to, if not persuade people, then at least offer an alternative viewpoint then it's generally a good idea not to start proceedings with a "hello, good evening and fuck you". Note however that I have done as much myself previously, upon occasion, depending upon my mood and/or the other person's initial statement. These days I try not to, at least, not if I can possibly avoid it. On a related note, did you see the other day that someone's now been jailed in the UK for trolling? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that; on the one hand what the guy did was vile, and he was clearly dumber than a box of rocks, but on the other it's yet another nail in the coffin of free speech in the UK. Not that we ever had it in the first place, of course. One good thing we could take note of from America is a written constitution. Yeah, but it's not actually my PROBLEM if someone's itty-bitty feelings are hurt. I'm here to exchange facts, not to play Net Nursemaid. I'm even less concerned that a few military scum take umbrage, like I said, I despise them all for the mere fact they signed up voluntarily, and at that point, they forfeited any and all rights to the decency I afford yourself or anyone else at the outset.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 8:03:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee We ALL have feelings here, as human beings. Ah but trolls don't work that way and I genuinely had no idea whether you were trolling or not. You have to admit you do go in somewhat "full-on". Personally, I think that if one's trying to, if not persuade people, then at least offer an alternative viewpoint then it's generally a good idea not to start proceedings with a "hello, good evening and fuck you". Note however that I have done as much myself previously, upon occasion, depending upon my mood and/or the other person's initial statement. These days I try not to, at least, not if I can possibly avoid it. Yeah, but it's not actually my PROBLEM if someone's itty-bitty feelings are hurt. I'm here to exchange facts, not to play Net Nursemaid. I'm even less concerned that a few military scum take umbrage, like I said, I despise them all for the mere fact they signed up voluntarily, and at that point, they forfeited any and all rights to the decency I afford yourself or anyone else at the outset. Hmmmmm. Well, I don't think you and I are ever going to agree on this one, so rather than bat it back and forth and get cross with each other I'll just say I don't agree and park it, if that's ok with you? Accepting of course that you don't agree either [;)] You do seem a jolly angry chap. I used to be similar (though not quite as aggressive), in terms of "it's the internet it's not real life and I’ll do whatever the fuck I want to", and in not caring or considering the effects my words might have on others. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know you, merely that I think you'd get a more full experience out of the whole thing if maybe you were a little more ... tolerant? Pleasant? Anyway, it's your call, not mine, so fair enough. One thing I would point out is that "facts" are themselves often (when talking in anything other than scientific absolutes, and there are precious few of those) a product of perception, upbringing, education, and a whole host of other factors. But you already knew that. “Nail em up! Nail some sense into em!”

Kirata -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 9:05:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I'm even less concerned that a few military scum take umbrage, like I said, I despise them all for the mere fact they signed up voluntarily, and at that point, they forfeited any and all rights to the decency I afford yourself or anyone else at the outset. I would be greatly appreciative if you would make a note to avoid affording me any sort of decency, then. I would find the conclusion that might be drawn by an observer to be offensive in the extreme. Thank you. K.

Jaybeee -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 10:05:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee We ALL have feelings here, as human beings. Ah but trolls don't work that way and I genuinely had no idea whether you were trolling or not. You have to admit you do go in somewhat "full-on". Personally, I think that if one's trying to, if not persuade people, then at least offer an alternative viewpoint then it's generally a good idea not to start proceedings with a "hello, good evening and fuck you". Note however that I have done as much myself previously, upon occasion, depending upon my mood and/or the other person's initial statement. These days I try not to, at least, not if I can possibly avoid it. Yeah, but it's not actually my PROBLEM if someone's itty-bitty feelings are hurt. I'm here to exchange facts, not to play Net Nursemaid. I'm even less concerned that a few military scum take umbrage, like I said, I despise them all for the mere fact they signed up voluntarily, and at that point, they forfeited any and all rights to the decency I afford yourself or anyone else at the outset. Hmmmmm. Well, I don't think you and I are ever going to agree on this one, so rather than bat it back and forth and get cross with each other I'll just say I don't agree and park it, if that's ok with you? Accepting of course that you don't agree either [;)] Very reasonable proposal that. You work your own magic, I'll work mine, and we respect the hell out of each other's right to do so!! :) quote: You do seem a jolly angry chap. Well, back in my younger days I was the stereotypical "Angry Young Man" railing against the many deprivations of life, but I'm told I've since lightened up 180, which I attribute both to those deprivations being lifted and to the delights conferred by life that begins at a "certain age", shall we say!!. I was actually surprised to learn that. And in any case, not only do I have every right to be angry at the mere presence of those who agreed to murder and actually HAVE murdered - and I can just see those awful, haunted eyes staring in apoplectic rage at the screen - as a decent human being I have failed in my DUTY to be angry at them, raging in fact!!! They've murdered poor men, women and children who have never even touched a firearm! The only reason I'm calm is because I own in a damn comfortable 4-bedder with a 50" HDTV and I have a gorgeous woman who doesn't mind me bringing back girls half my age and screwing them in front of her. I've been pacified. The creature comforts of this life have sedated me into a tranquil haze, thank you Stella Ar-fucking-tois. I'm not an 8-yr old orphan schoolgirl in Kandahar, waking up in her own piss, morning after morning, petrified that shrieking bomb dropped by an F-18 is going to end her days, or her 5yr old shellshocked brother wishing it would. Thanks to His grace, I wasn't born in a 3rd World shithole being blown to bits by "service personnel" who don't give a tapdancing fuck whether their mission is legitimate. Thanks also to Him, I developed the sanity and the bloodthirstLESSness not to be the guy in the cockpit of that F-18. So yeah, I'm human. I can't help feeling concerned for them. I see those adverts asking for £3 a month and know damn well if I signed up, less than 10% of my cash is going down the throats of those in need, and 90% down the throats of westerners of my OWN relative standard of living. Their assault of horrible images of suffering deadens you after a while, but doesn't stop me wincing every 10 ads or so. What about the Afghani orphans? They had the same right to life as the yuppies in the WTC. They didn't ask for the violence. But I've been overloaded with both western comforts and western coverage, so no, I'm not actually angry. BUT I FUCKING SHOULD BE, AND SO SHOULD WE ALL. (Ok, you can all take those worried looks off your faces now...) quote: I used to be similar (though not quite as aggressive), in terms of "it's the internet it's not real life and I’ll do whatever the fuck I want to", and in not caring or considering the effects my words might have on others. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know you, merely that I think you'd get a more full experience out of the whole thing if maybe you were a little more ... tolerant? Pleasant? Anyway, it's your call, not mine, so fair enough. I was just chatting with my slave about that just today; I think it's OFFline society where people wear masks of deception, not telling you what they mean and not really meaning what they're telling you. quote: “Nail em up! Nail some sense into em!” :)

popeye1250 -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 10:17:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama When I joined the USAF as a teenager, I wasn't thinking about war or really stupid wars, I was thinking about tuition and travel benefits. Teenagers aren't known for thinking things through. The older wiser me wouldn't enlist, but is glad the younger me did. VA medical benefits: everything is free; nothing is available In August, I asked my primary care provider for a referral to the GYN so I could get an ultrasound for a chronic condition. In September, the GYN put in a referral to the closest facility that does this, which is 58 miles away from me. 58 miles is a LONG way in South Florida traffic. In October, having received a letter with directions to the West Palm Beach facility but no appointment, I called Radiology. The woman said she saw the referral but not the order, and that I needed to speak to Denise. I left a message for Denise, who did not return my call. Later in October, I sent a fax to my primary care provider, explaining that I had not received an appointment and would she please help. She did not reply. Monday, I saw my PCP. She looked up the referral and said it was stuck in Fee-Based Services. She left a message at Miami. I said that my referral was to WPB, would Miami be able to help? She said yes, they are connected. Yesterday, Miami called me and said I needed to speak to WPB, they are not connected. She did not have the extension. I called WPB and the system told me that I was # 27 to reach the operator. I stayed on hold for a while and when the system told me I was # 22, I left a call back number. The operator called me back and I got the extension for Fee-Based Services. This went into a loop - no person or machine picked up - I kept going back to the main recording. Sighing, I pressed 0 for the operator. When I finally got someone, I explained that the extension was not working, that it was in a loop and no one picked up and I did not get voice mail. He asked me if I would like him to send a tech for the (something). I said, "No, I would like to speak to someone at extension XXXX. So he transferred me, back into the loop! It was around noon, and I figured the person at extension XXXX was taking a lunch break - clever scheduling as this is the time her customers are also taking their breaks. I finally got a person at 3 PM. Pilar said that I did not need Fee-Based Services, I needed Fee-Based Services GYN and that she would leave them a message and to call Suzanne if I did not get a response by Friday. I am not holding my breath. Good thing my need for an ultrasound is not related to pregnancy! Kalikshama, make a printout of the above and take it to your congressman's nearest district office. I'm sure they'll get it straightened out with one or two phone calls. "Hello, this is Congressman Shithammer's office and we're calling on behalf of one of our constituents." That's one of the reasons that they have district offices. And they have dedicated staffers onboard who do nothing but this kind of thing. Try it it works.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 10:30:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I was just chatting with my slave about that just today; I think it's OFFline society where people wear masks of deception, not telling you what they mean and not really meaning what they're telling you. The one thing I strive for these days is to be truly and genuinely honest in everything I do. I don't always succeed, most often in a work environment, where sadly I'm all too often called upon to prove, with working, that some fuckwit's concept of how a given thing should be done is the One True Way. I would love the freedom to more often tell such people they haven't the brains god gave a ball of cheese, and could they kindly fuck off, but I usually don't. Sadly, I’m limited to one “are you out of your mind?” per month. It’s a rejection of my human rights, I tell you. In most other respects I do try, wherever possible, to be as honest as I can be. As I say I don’t always succeed, but one should always strive, I feel. There’s as much learning in the trying as the succeeding, sometimes. Over time, I have tried to be less judgemental of others, when I feel they're wrong. Maybe I'm seeking an easy life, maybe I've lost the venom or fire I once had. But I have to say I'm a happier person for being more ... let's call it "restrained", in my dealings with others. In one sense I can see where you're probably right, because people tend to form an opinion, based on background, propaganda, society, etc, and then cling to it like a drowning man to a matchstick, and thus it’s so very rarely that anyone actually changes their mind. But, as I said, there's sometimes as much learning for me in the trying than there is in the succeeding.

tazzygirl -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 11:35:22 AM)
quote: I've been pacified. Amazingly enough, those who haunt you are not enough to pull you up out of that 4 bedder, and those in the beds, to go and do something for those people you claim to care so much about. Here, honey, something just for you. [sm=binky.gif] And, in case you didnt understand that.... Cry me a fucking river. If you arent part of the solution you are part of the problem. Whining on a message board that you cant get past the haunting images, yet can still brag about all the sex you can have... yeah, uh huh. [8\|]

Jaybeee -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 1:12:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I was just chatting with my slave about that just today; I think it's OFFline society where people wear masks of deception, not telling you what they mean and not really meaning what they're telling you. The one thing I strive for these days is to be truly and genuinely honest in everything I do. I don't always succeed, most often in a work environment, where sadly I'm all too often called upon to prove, with working, that some fuckwit's concept of how a given thing should be done is the One True Way. I would love the freedom to more often tell such people they haven't the brains god gave a ball of cheese, and could they kindly fuck off, but I usually don't. Sadly, I’m limited to one “are you out of your mind?” per month. It’s a rejection of my human rights, I tell you. Part of me feels a certain sorrow for you, having your rightful self-expression stifled. Another couldn't helping laughing QUITE out loud at the restriction being quantified... Feel free to start a "What I f\cking hate at work" thread, I'll be your first subscriber. quote: In most other respects I do try, wherever possible, to be as honest as I can be. As I say I don’t always succeed, but one should always strive, I feel. There’s as much learning in the trying as the succeeding, sometimes. More, in my experience. quote: Over time, I have tried to be less judgemental of others, when I feel they're wrong. Maybe I'm seeking an easy life, maybe I've lost the venom or fire I once had. But I have to say I'm a happier person for being more ... let's call it "restrained", in my dealings with others. In one sense I can see where you're probably right, because people tend to form an opinion, based on background, propaganda, society, etc, and then cling to it like a drowning man to a matchstick, and thus it’s so very rarely that anyone actually changes their mind. But, as I said, there's sometimes as much learning for me in the trying than there is in the succeeding. One parallel that sticks out in my mind is a series of convos with the 17 y.o son of my new neighbour. Big as a bull, soft-hearted as a baby, truly young, dumb, and full of cum. Much like myself now. Anyway, after a few months knowing him, and a few increasingly stern warnings about his demeanour, I've only just gotten him to realise that he'll elicit more information from adults by asking thoughfully-crafted questions, delivered in a heartfelt manner. As opposed to replying to my admission that his Mum's cake was "A little dry but still good" with, "What's cake supposed to be, fucking wet?" (He actually doesn't know cake is meant to be moist - the word and state that didn't occur to the lad) and in unpatriarchal style, I wasn't apt to educate the big boy) Does the same apply to me many moons later if I were to "switch styles", as it were?? I don't know. Not to be conceited, but I'm not sure what I'd learn that could actually be USEFUL. Run a search for question threads I started, they're pretty civilly worded.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 1:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee Part of me feels a certain sorrow for you, having your rightful self-expression stifled. Another couldn't helping laughing QUITE out loud at the limitation... Feel free to start a "What I f\cking hate at work" thread, I'll be your first subscriber. Heh. I do (mostly) enjoy very much what I do. I'm supposedly extremely good at it, though I'm rarely satisfied at what I do. I do just wish that, more often (as I say, I’m limited to one a month, give or take), I could cut through the "do you mind if I just point out ..." or the "that's a good point Frank, but have you considered ..." to add "THAT'LL NEVER WORK, PEOPLE WILL DIE, AND WE'LL ALL BE SUED, YOU OVER-PAID, UNDER-EXPERIENCED FUCKWIT!!!". quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: In most other respects I do try, wherever possible, to be as honest as I can be. As I say I don’t always succeed, but one should always strive, I feel. There’s as much learning in the trying as the succeeding, sometimes. More, in my experience. Agreed. quote: Over time, I have tried to be less judgemental of others, when I feel they're wrong. Maybe I'm seeking an easy life, maybe I've lost the venom or fire I once had. But I have to say I'm a happier person for being more ... let's call it "restrained", in my dealings with others. In one sense I can see where you're probably right, because people tend to form an opinion, based on background, propaganda, society, etc, and then cling to it like a drowning man to a matchstick, and thus it’s so very rarely that anyone actually changes their mind. But, as I said, there's sometimes as much learning for me in the trying than there is in the succeeding. quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee One parallel that sticks out in my mind is a series of convos with the 17 y.o son of my new neighbour. Big as a bull, soft-hearted as a baby, truly young, dumb, and full of cum. Much like myself now. Anyway, after a few months knowing him, and a few increasingly stern warnings about his demeanour, I've only just gotten him to realise that he'll elicit more information from adults by asking thoughfully-crafted questions, delivered in a heartfelt manner. As opposed to replying to my admission that his Mum's cake was "A little dry but still good" with, "What's cake supposed to be, fucking wet?" Does the same apply to me many moons later if I were to "switch styles", as it were?? I don't know. Not to be conceited, but I'm not sure what I'd learn that could actually be USEFUL. Run a search for question threads I started, they're pretty civilly worded. I would think so. You're clearly not thick. I just wonder if you're not doing yourself a disservice. Now of course that doesn't matter to you, as what other people on the remote old Interweb think of you and your opinions isn't of any interest to you, but to me it's much like the situation you describe observing with said 17 year-old, hence you mentioning it. And yes, I realise I've just laid myself open to "cheers dad" comments again, but I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about. You wouldn't necessarily learn any more "facts", as you put them, but you might get to know more people in a more friendly way and, being respected by them as a friend, they might listen to your voice slightly more when discussing difficult topics. At the very least you would cause less hurt to the people who're most hurt by these topics; namely those who have lost (and I mean the genuine ones, not some of the "Rah-Rah" hangers on/ghouls). I know (or at least I'm convinced thus far) you don't wish them any sadness, but the way you phrase things to them (or sometimes don't even consider whether they are or are not still grieving) doesn't make you look any better, nor advances your position one iota. I know you know best, for you. I'm just saying ... well I guess all I'm saying is it'd just be nicer if we all tried to be nicer, to one another. At least as a starting point, before jumping in with the "YOU FUCKWIT!!" stuff. Sweet Jesus. Now I'm sounding like a fucking Pepsi commercial. I hate you for that, you utter bastard [:(]

Jaybeee -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 3:44:30 PM)
(Lets forth a deafening, belching, James Brownesque "Ha!") [:D] That's one thing I've never understand with my (fellow) British menfolk (this ignorance possibly the result of my non-indigenous ancestry), namely this craven need not to appear like a live one-man impersonation of 'Hello' magazine, however chipper, chirpy and sunny their actual individual disposition. I suspect it stems from the playground ethos of, "You can't be shitting them up if you're standing there cracking up". There we have much to learn from our Yank cousins; too much pollyanna, as they put it, however sickly sweet and thickly trowelled on, is better than too little. So you can quit bemoaning your detrimental effect on Coca-Cola sales right now, because quite apart from the fact you're preaching to one of the dozen or so out of 60 million Brits on this island that actually LIKES a bit of optimism sunny side well and fucking truly up, you already admitted how nice life is when we're all a bit more pleasant to each other. Dunno if I ought to mention this, but I've had a few PM's in my inbox - one from a lady on this thread - thanking me for speaking up. There's one in particular, a very sweet one I am ashamed I haven't replied to yet (and I blame you Rapier for distracting me!!!), who of them all really does deserve a "Thank you" and a drink on my tab.

RapierFugue -> RE: Another Tribute to Veterans (11/17/2010 4:06:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee Dunno if I ought to mention this, but I've had a few PM's in my inbox - one from a lady on this thread - thanking me for speaking up. There's one in particular, a very sweet one I am ashamed I haven't replied to yet (and I blame you Rapier for distracting me!!!), who of them all really does deserve a "Thank you" and a drink on my tab. Hang on, let me get this straight - you're getting laid off my best endeavours at making you look even vaguely human?! That's wrong dude, massively wrong. My inbox is empty - I clearly don't have your charm [;)] "We're from the university of Wallamaloo - Bruce here is in charge of logical positivism ... ... and I'm in charge of the sheep dip"

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