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RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:39:11 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Anerin... on this issue... i could not agree with you more!

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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:42:00 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		In response to your post... look up the difference between spirituality and religion... and try to grasp.. in an elightened way... why many people do not follow a "formal religion" instead seeking a spiritual walk of life. There you will find where many of us here are coming from. You come across as an intelligent person.

http://www.examiner.com/spirituality-in-los-angeles/spiritual-but-not-religious

The above may help you. May also help you clean out your brushes.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:42:45 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Personally I just do not know why the US administration is putting up with this dangerous fool for he is obvious to the world at large and thought to be an embarassment and even a hindrance to any works towards peace and understanding between the cultures.


Has he actually broken any law yet?

PS: Genuine question coz I don't know. I thought (but I could be wrong) that he hadn’t, at least not as it was stated thus far?

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:47:38 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Would anyone like a glass of water?

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:49:40 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Would anyone like a glass of water?


"Never drink water. Fish fuck in it".

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 10:58:48 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Anerin... on this issue... i could not agree with you more!


That's twice now, I must be waking up !


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:00:38 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Would anyone like a glass of water?


"Never drink water. Fish fuck in it".


I would be more worried about urination and defacation, fuck juice is palatable


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:04:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Does a man break a law when he calls another man's mother a bitch and gets his nose busted as a result? Probably not, but the nose is still broken, and the man doing the punching sure feels better.

Just because you have the right to say something doesnt mean you have to say it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:08:39 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Just because you have the right to say something doesnt mean you have to say it.


No of course not, but if he hasn't broken any laws then you're moving (well the government would be, and the people for allowing it) into some very dangerous waters if they decide to make an issue of it.

You'd be back to “the State doesn't agree with what the individual says, so the individual will be silenced”. Which I have to say would be a massive price to pay.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:10:34 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Ah, in the UK you hit anybody in the head it is deemed to be a crime and apparently doing that in response to an insult no matter how grave does not seem to sway the law. That is if the law are involved or stick their noses in because they have nothing better to do.

But that is a point, I believe you in the US respect your law enforcers, when in the UK most dislike and disrespect our version of them. I used to respect them, but I have since learned not to.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:13:58 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Would anyone like a glass of water?



You're so funny sometimes, Hunky!!

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RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:15:20 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The Supreme Court has heard such a case against Phelps. The ruling is due 2011

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:16:45 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Ah, in the UK you hit anybody in the head it is deemed to be a crime and apparently doing that in response to an insult no matter how grave does not seem to sway the law.


Speaking personally, I wouldn't want it any other way. If someone insults you, you can insult them back or ignore them. Mere verbal insult is not just cause to do violence, although that's a personal opinion.

Also, verbal insults can be deemed assault under British law, depending on the severity and circumstance, and there are several other laws relating to verbal communication that can (depending on the circumstances) also come into play.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:18:00 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Supreme Court has heard such a case against Phelps. The ruling is due 2011


Ah thank you, I did not know.

I shall read up on that.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:35:22 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Ah, in the UK you hit anybody in the head it is deemed to be a crime and apparently doing that in response to an insult no matter how grave does not seem to sway the law.


Speaking personally, I wouldn't want it any other way. If someone insults you, you can insult them back or ignore them. Mere verbal insult is not just cause to do violence, although that's a personal opinion.

Also, verbal insults can be deemed assault under British law, depending on the severity and circumstance, and there are several other laws relating to verbal communication that can (depending on the circumstances) also come into play.



yep, anyone, and everyone should turn the other cheek if insulted, but it is yet again a case of because someone can do something, then should they, the result of these new ideas is tension and seething hatred as we all know the cops are too busy or too underfunded or the cps plain doesn't give a shit to do anything about insults. Basically for an insult to be taken seriously by the law, then it has to be said in front of lots of different people who are willing to testify in court. I don't know about you, but I am coming across more and more people now who simply say they don't want to get involved, so recourse to law is hampered even more.

An example, the recent news about fanatics burning poppies on armistice day, a grave insult to all those who fought and died for our country, what has happened about them, the media jumped on it and tried to milk it for all it was worth, now say the media were not present, no one heard about it except rumours that a bunch of fanatics had got a pasting for upsetting people, where is the harm there.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:41:31 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
An example, the recent news about fanatics burning poppies on armistice day, a grave insult to all those who fought and died for our country, what has happened about them, the media jumped on it and tried to milk it for all it was worth, now say the media were not present, no one heard about it except rumours that a bunch of fanatics had got a pasting for upsetting people, where is the harm there.



No-one has the right to do violence unto another simply because of their beliefs, regardless of how "fanatical" they are, presuming of course that their "fanaticism" remains within the law.

If someone wants to burn a poppy then that’s their business. If someone wants to burn the Union Flag then that’s their business. If someone wants to call me an arsehole* then that’s their business too.

(I’m presuming you meant you thought it was ok for people to punch out “fanatics”, although the sentence can be read 2 ways, so apologies if I’m just agreeing with you)

* I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear this, but amazingly that has happened to me before

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:45:30 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think we could unite to stop puppy burning....

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 11:51:08 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Personally I just do not know why the US administration is putting up with this dangerous fool for he is obvious to the world at large and thought to be an embarassment and even a hindrance to any works towards peace and understanding between the cultures.


Has he actually broken any law yet?

PS: Genuine question coz I don't know. I thought (but I could be wrong) that he hadn’t, at least not as it was stated thus far?



The Supreme Court is deciding on that.

There are some restrictions on protected speech.  "Fighting Words" are not protected.  Pornography is not protected.  Incitement to riot (shouting FIRE in a crowded theater) is not protected.  To give some examples.

In this case the WBC is violating the Harm principle.  They are deliberately causing emotional distress. 



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 12:05:43 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Personally I just do not know why the US administration is putting up with this dangerous fool for he is obvious to the world at large and thought to be an embarassment and even a hindrance to any works towards peace and understanding between the cultures.


Has he actually broken any law yet?

PS: Genuine question coz I don't know. I thought (but I could be wrong) that he hadn’t, at least not as it was stated thus far?



The Supreme Court is deciding on that.

There are some restrictions on protected speech.  "Fighting Words" are not protected.  Pornography is not protected.  Incitement to riot (shouting FIRE in a crowded theater) is not protected.  To give some examples.

In this case the WBC is violating the Harm principle.  They are deliberately causing emotional distress. 


I quite agree, but he does seem to be getting away with it so far. I'm reading up about that case (and the general situation on "free speech and freedom of expression"). Most of it seems pretty sensible so far, as your examples illustrate.

This Phelps character is a real charmer isn't he? Starts off well, doing civil rights legal work, then appears to go stark raving na-na ... the Carolene Brady case, perjury, a major case of the grumps against Sweden (Sweden, FFS! I mean what's not to like about Sweden? Not an Abba fan maybe?), pro-Saddam Hussein ... talk about racking up the offences!

Fascinating stuff.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Westboro Baptist Church Cheers Child Deaths - 11/20/2010 12:36:40 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

I quite agree, but he does seem to be getting away with it so far. I'm reading up about that case (and the general situation on "free speech and freedom of expression"). Most of it seems pretty sensible so far, as your examples illustrate.

This Phelps character is a real charmer isn't he? Starts off well, doing civil rights legal work, then appears to go stark raving na-na ... the Carolene Brady case, perjury, a major case of the grumps against Sweden (Sweden, FFS! I mean what's not to like about Sweden? Not an Abba fan maybe?), pro-Saddam Hussein ... talk about racking up the offences!

Fascinating stuff.



Oh yes, such a charmer. 

I live about 25 miles from Topeka. 

The KU Queers and Allies make money off of him every year, however, during Gay Pride Week.    And he receives a lovely "thank you" note for it.   

Part of the reason that he has been getting away with it is because of the number of lawyers in his family/congregation. 

Religion in Kansas is a bit screwed up anyways.  There is Phelps with the WBC and we have our own Pope, the Moonies wanted to move here.  The list goes on. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 100
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