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RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 5:58:58 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, it is true that America is new to the fact that enemies can bring terror to their shores, and that might have a large bearing on the sillyness we are comming to experience, for what America does, the UK usually follows almost blindly as it it truly were a lap dog to the US.


While I agree with you entirely, I would point out that, in the realm of "unnecessary security", the UK is actually well ahead of the US in certain respects. We are, for example, the most filmed, watched, and CCTV'd nation on earth, per person.

Yay! Go us!

Oh ... hang on ...

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:01:06 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, it is true that America is new to the fact that enemies can bring terror to their shores, and that might have a large bearing on the sillyness we are comming to experience, for what America does, the UK usually follows almost blindly as it it truly were a lap dog to the US. The US paranoia is affecting the UK and other countries around the world as I have heard it said America will not let any airlines into the US if they do not adequately search the passengers beforehand. So what America says, the world has to follow, but perhaps people are getting fed up of dancing to America's tune as indicated by UK based Aviation criticising the useless happenings at security check outs in UK airports.

Perhaps Americans need to be asking, why is it they are the focus of terrorist action and there compel their leaders to stop pissing people off as the security measures in place are eroding the freedom you once had and the terrorist will win always for an unhappy or pissed off populace unfree in their movement is just a good a reward for their threat.

Do you think the time will come where America will be seen as the world aggressor, not those that take action upon what they feel is injustice ?



Anerin,  cogent post.  I agree-  tho I also think  the top brass plays both sides against the middle.  Rotating the scape goats- and lame ideas.

This cocky protesting-  otherwise known as dissent-   is what we need.

In some ways I think the Aussies have more guts then the Americans.   (I hang on an Aussie board at times)

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:03:26 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, it is true that America is new to the fact that enemies can bring terror to their shores, and that might have a large bearing on the sillyness we are comming to experience, for what America does, the UK usually follows almost blindly as it it truly were a lap dog to the US.


While I agree with you entirely, I would point out that, in the realm of "unnecessary security", the UK is actually well ahead of the US in certain respects. We are, for example, the most filmed, watched, and CCTV'd nation on earth, per person.

Yay! Go us!

Oh ... hang on ...



Coffee on keyboard.   lol.

I agree...   the UK is more intrusive the USA,  but these ideas rotate-  I am in no hurry to have my town on lock down like London seems to be....

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:04:43 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

SO PA, let me ask you this -- do you think that the world should become stagnant and simply stop progressing? 

angel



quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

The world isn't going to stop progressing, the technology will keep moving forward.

angel 


Do you seriously consider that a national security system that is so inept that we are reduced to using $10,000 porno-scanners at every airport and lowest skilled workers to aggressively pull, poke, and grope people's sexual areas is "progression"? "moving forward"?

This actually hurts my head.

How much of this thread have you actually read? Did you read post # 170, or especially post #173? (post #s are at the bottom of the post)

And this among other videos ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQum39C8K9Y


Many people have tried to justify all this, but none yet have called it "progression."


Wow.



(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:12:56 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		FR


There is plenty of progress in the world, but this situation is indisputably pointing things in the opposite direction.

A $10,000 rickshaw would not be used as evidence of progress in transportation.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/24/2010 6:13:13 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:13:40 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Shakes my head, whatever.   I can see adding more to this thread will only bring on more stupid comments calling the scanners porno machines.  This is where i stop wasting my time.

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:15:12 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I agree...   the UK is more intrusive the USA,  but these ideas rotate-  I am in no hurry to have my town on lock down like London seems to be....


The difference is that, in the UK, people aren't generally aware of how under scrutiny they are, how often, and to what degree. We don't do "hordes of secret police and security", we do "cameras everywhere".

There’s an absolutely corking tale I could relate here but it’d be slightly off-topic, so it can wait for another day.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:17:48 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Shakes my head, whatever.   I can see adding more to this thread will only bring on more stupid comments calling the scanners porno machines.  This is where i stop wasting my time.



If you had actually read the numerous posts and creditable links explaining why these measures are both unnecessary and ineffective then you would not have wasted your time asking what has already been answered.


< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/24/2010 6:18:35 AM >

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:20:53 AM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		The failure with airport security is that it is item-focused rather than person-focused. We're searching for things that may be used to blow up planes rather than looking for the folks who want to blow up planes.

We don't have an organized group of children attempting to blow up our planes, yet we feel it necessary to screen them.

We don't have an organized group of nuns attempting to blow up our planes, yet we feel it necessary to screen them.

We don't have an organized group of the elderly attempting to blow up our planes, yet we feel it necessary to screen them.

Politically-correct security is not security. We know who wants to blow up our planes: 16 to 50 years old men, usually of Mideastern or African descent, travelling alone or with other men.

The solution: Pay extra attention to men travelling alone or groups of men. Redirect the resources currently being wasted screening children and the elderly to the problem of unscreened cargo.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:22:27 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Well, what does one expect of Aussies, but the best of British for the mentality that was originally sent out there was the ones the establishment didn't want here. Think strong active minds bent on survival better there on a rich Englishmans lands given by the crown in a hostile enviroment than wasting away in an oubliet which our prisons virtually were. The punishment of transportation was a cynical ploy to send free labour abroad, as records show stealing an a crust of bread to fend off starvation was enough for transportation to happen.

I fear looking into America from here you have become a scared bunch of people, totally at the mercy of the politicians and their ideas and belief in the departmental actions of the good 'ole US of A. I think maybe you have been brainwashed and are as not as free as you once were or think you are now.

The UK has never been free, we exist to serve, perhaps why on the whole we do not trust authority, for we have had centuries of history where the little man always gets squashed, education of the masses was the establishment's mistake, for we can now learn and discern things for ourselves independant of government and the establishments lies. I see it, our time will come and the politicians perhaps already know they are walking a fine line, royalty controlled, politicians will be next.

But it is a dangerous reflection on the societies we have become that a person who protests against governmental action is labelled a terrorist or dissenter, for it is a government ploy to expose a known agitator and gather evidence to show the populace about the dangers in their ranks and there aid instability and more support for themselves. But on the other hand it lets you all know there is a power greater than you that will not let you upset their status quo, you will pay for it to be created and you will pay for it as you are crushed beneath it, an effective war policy of creating dissent amongst the ranks so people end up not trusting one another.

Where this is no trust, it is hard for opposition in numbers to form.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:23:44 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I agree...   the UK is more intrusive the USA,  but these ideas rotate-  I am in no hurry to have my town on lock down like London seems to be....


The difference is that, in the UK, people aren't generally aware of how under scrutiny they are, how often, and to what degree. We don't do "hordes of secret police and security", we do "cameras everywhere".

There’s an absolutely corking tale I could relate here but it’d be slightly off-topic, so it can wait for another day.



Right now my generation is in charge.   We do not need this invasive stuff.  If a future generation wants it- then so be it.    (I guess, glunk)

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:29:18 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Well, what does one expect of Aussies, but the best of British for the mentality that was originally sent out there was the ones the establishment didn't want here. Think strong active minds bent on survival better there on a rich Englishmans lands given by the crown in a hostile enviroment than wasting away in an oubliet which our prisons virtually were. The punishment of transportation was a cynical ploy to send free labour abroad, as records show stealing an a crust of bread to fend off starvation was enough for transportation to happen.

I fear looking into America from here you have become a scared bunch of people, totally at the mercy of the politicians and their ideas and belief in the departmental actions of the good 'ole US of A. I think maybe you have been brainwashed and are as not as free as you once were or think you are now.

The UK has never been free, we exist to serve, perhaps why on the whole we do not trust authority, for we have had centuries of history where the little man always gets squashed, education of the masses was the establishment's mistake, for we can now learn and discern things for ourselves independant of government and the establishments lies. I see it, our time will come and the politicians perhaps already know they are walking a fine line, royalty controlled, politicians will be next.

But it is a dangerous reflection on the societies we have become that a person who protests against governmental action is labelled a terrorist or dissenter, for it is a government ploy to expose a known agitator and gather evidence to show the populace about the dangers in their ranks and there aid instability and more support for themselves. But on the other hand it lets you all know there is a power greater than you that will not let you upset their status quo, you will pay for it to be created and you will pay for it as you are crushed beneath it, an effective war policy of creating dissent amongst the ranks so people end up not trusting one another.

Where this is no trust, it is hard for opposition in numbers to form.



Brilliant post!   I agree with all of this.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:37:09 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, it is true that America is new to the fact that enemies can bring terror to their shores, and that might have a large bearing on the sillyness we are comming to experience, for what America does, the UK usually follows almost blindly as it it truly were a lap dog to the US.


While I agree with you entirely, I would point out that, in the realm of "unnecessary security", the UK is actually well ahead of the US in certain respects. We are, for example, the most filmed, watched, and CCTV'd nation on earth, per person.

Yay! Go us!

Oh ... hang on ...



Yes I know full well, and I notice in which way the cameras swing when I move into the local shopping precinct, but with knowledge of where they are I now don't look up and when I am out I am largely hidden in the colours I wear and a fedora on my head. The latter because it rains a lot here and I don't want my long hair getting wet, but it serves another purpose well and now with the cold, the beard is back.

But airports with their security I have to be prepoared to be hassled, as long hair, face fuzz hat and dark clothing is a recipe to get attention from the ss that work there looking for the obvious it seems and missing the unobvious as I have pointed out before, but hey security bods at airports only pub bouncers that failed to make the size, in other words, grunts hiding behind the badge of authority.

As you can probably deduce, I have no respect for authority for I can see right through them to the inadequate little turd beneath.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:42:41 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I went to a different DR a few weeks back for a 2nd opinion on a matter.   She had 2 freaken surveillance cameras in the waiting room- and security doors. 

I wont go back.



PA, cameras in the waiting room w/ security doors makes sense.
Doctors have drugs and cash.
They have expensive equiptment.

Those measures are there as much for your protection as for theirs.

edit: trim quotes

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 11/24/2010 6:46:11 AM >

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:47:54 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
I agree...   the UK is more intrusive the USA,  but these ideas rotate-  I am in no hurry to have my town on lock down like London seems to be....


The difference is that, in the UK, people aren't generally aware of how under scrutiny they are, how often, and to what degree. We don't do "hordes of secret police and security", we do "cameras everywhere".

There’s an absolutely corking tale I could relate here but it’d be slightly off-topic, so it can wait for another day.



There was a great interview Alan Moore did around the turn of the millennium, in which he said that he'd decided that the easiest way to show that Britain had become a futuristic utopia in V For Vendetta was to have surveillance cameras everywhere...

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 11/24/2010 6:48:59 AM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:49:43 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I went to a different DR a few weeks back for a 2nd opinion on a matter.   She had 2 freaken surveillance cameras in the waiting room- and security doors. 

I wont go back.



PA, cameras in the waiting room w/ security doors makes sense.
Doctors have drugs and cash.
They have expensive equiptment.

Those measures are there as much for your protection as for theirs.

edit: trim quotes


No they do not.

My regular DR is way more accommodating.  The wait room has an open feeling to it...

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 6:54:57 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
No they do not.

Your Doctor doesn't have a PC anywhere in his surgery? There isn't an autoclave or vaccine serums* in the nurse's station? Not even a sphyganometer or a speculum?


*(Eeeeeeeeeevil, of course, but valuable if in short supply.)

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 7:05:48 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I went to a different DR a few weeks back for a 2nd opinion on a matter.   She had 2 freaken surveillance cameras in the waiting room- and security doors. 

I wont go back.



PA, cameras in the waiting room w/ security doors makes sense.
Doctors have drugs and cash.
They have expensive equiptment.

Those measures are there as much for your protection as for theirs.

edit: trim quotes


Then the question should be asked, was it hell with things being stolen in the room before cameras were fitted.

Or is it now because we have the technology to provide security cameras we are really saying all our customers are potential criminals where before the advent of security cameras, people were just customers wanting to see a doctor.

The implementation of security devices that invade a persons privacy should always be questioned as to what was the precedent for their installation, if the answer is just in case, that is not good enough for then everyone becomes a suspect. Fine if you do no wrong you have nothing to fear, but being watched in case you do is implying you are not trusted, no matter how much business you have put the situations way.

Quite often here in the land of cctv, though cameras record actions happening, there is no authority nearby that can intervene, so one watches a sick movie of a person being beaten to a pulp and being left for dead, no police anywhere to be seen, it has happened.Quite often all a camera does is record, it is not there to stop crime, just record it happening and if clear enough, i.e. the perps. features are clear to see( unlikely) the police will might then act on the footage. And in some instances one can park their car in plain sight of cctv, and walk away satisfied your vehicle is protected only to come back and find it destroyed or gone. When informing the authorities about what has happened the report back that camera was actually broken, a dummy camera or whatever and that has happened.

CCTV is an insiduous way to watch the public at large and it does little to catch the hardened crook, but might have some success with drunken ribaldry in the town at night.

But one cannot help but wonder, all this footage when it is compiled and put on tv so the populace can view just how dangerous it is out there, thus making the need for authority and surveillance all the more.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 7:08:50 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I went to a different DR a few weeks back for a 2nd opinion on a matter.   She had 2 freaken surveillance cameras in the waiting room- and security doors. 

I wont go back.



PA, cameras in the waiting room w/ security doors makes sense.
Doctors have drugs and cash.
They have expensive equiptment.

Those measures are there as much for your protection as for theirs.

edit: trim quotes


No they do not.

My regular DR is way more accommodating.  The wait room has an open feeling to it...



You are of course entitled to your opinion.

This summer a doctor in my doctor's buildings office was broken into.
The person stole cash and computers.

He then set a fire to cover the crime.

My physician's group practice had to move; the damage to their building was $250,000 dollars.
All of the charts had water and smoke damage.
She had been my doctor since 1992 and she has no information on me.
The equiptment that was salvageable carries the odor of smoke.

You don't know why her office has these precautions, but in this day and age, they are reasonable.
Hospitals have security cameras and doors.
So do many apartment buildings.

Again, doctors offices have expensive and valuable equiptment, including prescription pads and drugs.

Over 15 years ago I was a home health aide.
At night our nurses had escorts because there was a misconception that they carried drugs with them.

As far as your valuables go:
Do you leave your doors open for just anyone to walk in?

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! - 11/24/2010 7:11:53 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I was forgetting prescription pads: very valuable for all the wrong reasons, sadly.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 220
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