RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (Full Version)

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RapierFugue -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 5:58:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Here is an idea........before anyone gets to fly, they must have a full background check and pay all the expenses of such. If you purchase a ticket and arrive at the airport without proof of passing said background check, your passage is denied, no refund of ticket purchase.


One of the techniques many security experts think would be better than the current system is one where you are "pre-checked". Of course you'd need biometric identification but the system's presumably not completely unworkable.

Or we could just do what the Israelis do and talk to people, using highly trained operatives, while they wait in line. But then that'd cost nowhere near as much, so I can't see the scanner & security people voting for that one.




LaTigresse -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:00:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

The thing is what many don't get is MOST people have no clue about the scanners because they haven't gone through them.  They are getting their information second nature instead of actually seeing if it will and does bother them.   I mean even on one of the busiest flying days in the US only 2% of people are having to deal with the scanners and pat downs and they are expected close to 2,000,000 Wednesday which means the same will probably be on Sunday.   So i can see why most people aren't overly concerned.  Its not happening to them. 


Ah well, so long as it's happening to some other poor sod that's fine then. I mean, other people aren't a priority are they, so fuck em [;)]


If we act like kids- will people treat us like adults?




What has your experience taught you?




barelynangel -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:02:14 AM)

Umm isn't that what the no fly list is all about?  




Aneirin -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:03:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

PA, these cases will go to the supreme court, there will be no jury at the very end.  Also, you would blame the government?  Yet you are having issue with regard to what they are trying to do to keep same from happening.  See this is where i see an issue.  People who would have no qualms suing or blaming the governmemt and yet moan and say the government should stay out of it.

It seems people want the best of both worlds, tell the government to stay out of it until something happens then its the governments fault and people want money from them and the principle concept of they should have done more.

angel


Angel.  There is no such thing as a random plane crash.   When ever there is a crash- an important person in on that plane that is bucking the system.  The Titanic, the Hindenburg- same deal.



PA, I have worked as ground crew, and I know things fly that perhaps shouldn't, but aside from an important control surface falling off or engines packing up, most occurances can be dealt with in flight, for aircraft are surprisingly tough structures and scared pilots tend to think best. But airline pilots are at best bus drivers, modern aircraft once off the ground can be flown automatic and even landed on automatic, perhaps not good for a pilots skills, that is where ex military fliers are the best, those that know how to fly by the seat of their pants.

Knowing what I know of aircraft, I am happy to fly, but what I know of airside security, that is the weak link in any security operation, for aircraft are not guarded on the ground and no one checks the credentials of those attending to the aircraft, say anyone can attach anything to the outside skin, inside an engine cowl  or even inside the baggage compartment when the luggage is loaded in, disrupt the aeroform structure, the airspeed and the elements will rip it apart in no time, it's only aluminium.

But I believe there has not yet been an instance of the proxy bomb on aircraft.




pahunkboy -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:06:42 AM)

Peons NEVER die in air crashes UNLESS a big shot is on the plane.

Gulf oil spill recovery exec dead in plane crash Tags: GULF OIL DISASTER An executive helping to guide BP's recovery from the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, a top Texas lawyer and his mother-in-law were killed in a small plane crash in waters off northern Florida, officials said Wednesday. James Patrick Black, 58, died about a mile from the Destin airport in the Florida Panhandle on Tuesday night, said BP spokeswoman Hejdi Feick.




pahunkboy -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:08:08 AM)

Recall another clean up dude who "drowned" in his hot tub?
aint that some happy shitt?




Aneirin -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:17:18 AM)

Well, I dont know on that one, the conspiratoral side of me suggests it is a possibility, but that shows a huge disregard for human life. If from internal America, it makes internal America the terrorists they tell the populace other people are, I was going to say I find it hard to believe people would hold human life in such disdain as to kill many just to get one, but hang on a minute, that's what terrorists do already so perhaps it is not so hard to believe and with that if it is true internal America  is performing these foul deeds, I guess that gives credance to those that believe 9/11 was an inside job.

But the question should be asked does anyone believe that anyone other than a foreign national would go to such lengths as to kill many people and disrupt other's lives for politics, business or religious ideals, if the answer to any one of those ideals is possibly, then the terrorist you seek is not always overseas.




RapierFugue -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:17:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Umm isn't that what the no fly list is all about?  


No, it isn't.




barelynangel -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:20:49 AM)

Ahh okay, i don't know much about the logistics of that. 




RapierFugue -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 6:37:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Ahh okay, i don't know much about the logistics of that. 


Ok, there are 2 main potentials, in terms of pre-screening. 1. Identifying the person and 2. Identifying them as a risk (or not, of course).

The no-fly list is a "positive exclusion" operation; "if your name's on the list you ain't getting in". What pre-screening does is to say "the people on this list are known low-risk (or even negative risk), verified individuals". So you would need a secure, biometric card (say) that identifies you. The technology to do this is known, mature, and works - your own military (and mine) use it for high-value installations, for example. Since the information on the card is keyed to your genetic code, and hard-coded, you can't "fake" the ID, because the checksums embedded in the card mean that, even if someone knew how to substitute one genetic sequence for another (highly unlikely) then they still wouldn't know in what form that information was encrypted. So that's stage one - I'd know, as a security person, that the person standing in front of me was you, definitely you.

Stage two is (ahead of time) you are background checked, and any anomalies are discussed or, if necessary, investigated. Note that the overwhelming majority of people would sail those checks without issue. So now you have a list of those who are authorised as safe, and the means to identify them when they present themselves.

So you end up with a "flight card" you just swipe at a barrier, identify yourself via biometrics, and that's you done. Sensibly, as a precaution, you could still operate the Israeli system too, while people are queuing - you ask a limited number of simple questions, some of which are designed to identify people as suspects directly, and some of which cause their panic reflex to trigger if they're lying (hence you need trained operatives to marshal the system, but it's not so much the answers to those other questions that matter, it's your reaction). Again, the overwhelming majority of people would fly those, without issue.

You end up with a system that's very fast, non-invasive, and above all is secure. You can then take the money saved and throw it at baggage scanning, which is still a very hit & miss affair, and very dependent on human monitoring - attempts to automate the process have proved fruitless thus far, on either density or atomic weight scans* for explosives. So you'd end up with speedily processed, happy, non-invaded passengers, and luggage that almost certainly doesn't contain a bomb.

Then you'd need to actually make airport entry secure, from a physical and employee check perspective, but that's not un-doable.

*I only know this latter thing coz it's what a mate of mine did his PhD in a couple of years back




pahunkboy -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 7:12:40 AM)

Deadlier Than Scanners: TSA To Spread Flesh-Eating Bacteria Now that the TSA’s new pat down procedures include reaching inside people’s clothing and directly touching their skin and genitals, communicable diseases are set to soar, with doctors warning of a new wave of infections that will pose a greater risk to public health than any statistical probability of being a victim of terrorism.




rulemylife -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 8:12:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

PA, I have worked as ground crew, and I know things fly that perhaps shouldn't, but aside from an important control surface falling off or engines packing up, most occurances can be dealt with in flight, for aircraft are surprisingly tough structures and scared pilots tend to think best. But airline pilots are at best bus drivers, modern aircraft once off the ground can be flown automatic and even landed on automatic, perhaps not good for a pilots skills, that is where ex military fliers are the best, those that know how to fly by the seat of their pants.



You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You worked on a ground crew?  What does that mean? 

You loaded baggage on airplanes, or tugged them around, or fueled them?

How did that make you an expert in what it takes to fly an aircraft?




allthatjaz -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 8:15:52 AM)

pahunkboy, I think your being a bit of an alarmist here.
I fly all the time. I was on a plane today in fact. I go through the scanner after I have removed my boots and emptied my pockets and if no alarm goes off, I walk over and pick up my bag, which has been through a separate scanner.
I see people setting off alarms and they are taken to one side and asked if they have anything in their pockets. Jewelry is the first thing they check because they know that, that's usually the culprit. If there is still a problem, they check inside of your collar and along the top of your jeans and pat down over your clothing. They do this with a clean set of gloves. If they don't use a clean set of gloves then they are breaking health and safety regulations.
If all else fails they will escort you to a private room and strip search you (with a witness present) under caution (so your allowed a lawyer) and under very strict regulations.




RapierFugue -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 8:19:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
pahunkboy, I think your being a bit of an alarmist here.


That's twice today you've made me smile [:D]




allthatjaz -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 8:22:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
pahunkboy, I think your being a bit of an alarmist here.


That's twice today you've made me smile [:D]


I aim to bring a little laughter into peoples lives [;)]




RapierFugue -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 8:35:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
pahunkboy, I think your being a bit of an alarmist here.


That's twice today you've made me smile [:D]


I aim to bring a little laughter into peoples lives [;)]

Well you've certainly managed that today [:D]




pahunkboy -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 1:09:36 PM)

The truth is... that we ALL are going to die!


-just sayn-




Lucylastic -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 1:11:40 PM)

I think that is the most reliable thing you have ever said Hunky




Moonhead -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 1:16:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
One of the techniques many security experts think would be better than the current system is one where you are "pre-checked". Of course you'd need biometric identification but the system's presumably not completely unworkable.


There's plenty of evil islamofascist terrorists biometric identification wouldn't work on though: how are they going to fingerprint or get retinal photos of that Abu Hamza chap?




takemeforyourown -> RE: Don't bloody well touch me!!! (11/25/2010 1:26:20 PM)

Shall I pay the fine then, if they single me out for a pat-down and I refuse? No! I have a better idea. I think I shall strip off all my clothes in front of everyone. Nothing says, "can't touch this" like a naked mommy-body in the middle of an airport. I don't think there would be any reason for them to touch me after that, nor would they probably want to. hee hee




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