RE: Sharing

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daddysprop247 -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 12:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 ... if a Dominant just flat out doesn't want another to touch what is his, okay then, but that's not a defining factor of possessiveness... To clarify my previous post in relation to this comment of yours... I think that many of us use the word "possessive" to denote the degree of protectiveness that we feel over the things that we own. It is an emphasis for those possessions we are most guarded about losing. Does that help? oh you were quite clear. not only is a Dominant who shares what he owns not possessive of his property, but he is also not protective of it and does not value or cherish it. because if he did, he wouldn't dare do such a thing. i think i got the message. my original confusion stands, as well as the resulting sense of offense.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 12:19:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine Greetings daddysprop, In the past I had a real issue with this subject. Sharing myself wasn't hard for me to fathom and I did so in other relationships. However, in terms of power exchanges I had a very difficult time embracing the idea of Him bringing in another party (female) and allowing her to become a part of our dynamic. Casual occurrences wouldn't have bothered me, but the permanence was a major stickler. I'm certain the caveat was the emotional element that could spring up and it was something I feared. Strangely enough when I've been told that sharing was not a possibility some part of me was disappointed. Of course my attraction to the whole thing was based upon my perceptions not the other persons. What compelled me to rethink my stance was the realization that the situations where it was not a factor provided a nifty out that allowed me to maintain control over an aspect of my slavery without ever having it called into question. Perhaps I'm in the minority in this respect, but I've stopped avoiding the things I find uncomfortable in prospects. Instead of quickly dismissing something as a deal breaker I ask myself what I gain by grasping the reins in that area. Theoretically I realize that it will have to be ceded, but I've come to accept the latitude isn't given across the board and it is truthfully in response to the impact the dominant party has upon me. What's most interesting is my unwillingness to embark upon supposedly safe paths in deference for those that force me to address internal conflicts and heightened risks that would typically send me scurrying in the opposite direction. Much like you've mentioned in your response, the notion of having to do what I would not do is more liberating than the option of never facing my fear of it at all. It is a demonstration of His possession and the strength of His will. Namaste, ~porcelaine greetings porcelaine, i just wanted to think you for this post, as it gave me much to mull over and in some respects re-think. our journeys have more in common than i realized. those Masters...that power of theirs, the overwhelming force of their will...it can be terrifying at times. that is where i meditate and hope for the strength to endure, as well as the will to grow.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 12:31:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Of course, value and risk are entirely subjective. For me, I see someone who is careless with their belongings as someone who doesn't place much value on them. Others, however, often feel that ownership is pointless unless you make the most of what it is that you own and use it to the fullest. Sharing does not imply carelessness. While prop and I usually don't agree on things, here is one where I believe we do - if only in part. I share her offense at the notion that sharing his prized possession means he is being careless with it. He's been sharing me to varying degrees from scenes to allowing me to sleep and form relationships with others for years. So far, I don't appear to be ruined like a sweater improperly cleaned. And, unlike the sweater, I can be talked to and we can figure out what went wrong and fix it. No need to toss me in a bag for Goodwill. While I do have things that I do not share, you have to remember that I am not a ring. I have a voice, I have two feet, two hands and I am fully capable of saying "No, this is not what Valyraen agreed to", picking up the phone and getting a ride out. I am much more capable than a diamond ring.

TreasureKY -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 3:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 ... if a Dominant just flat out doesn't want another to touch what is his, okay then, but that's not a defining factor of possessiveness... To clarify my previous post in relation to this comment of yours... I think that many of us use the word "possessive" to denote the degree of protectiveness that we feel over the things that we own. It is an emphasis for those possessions we are most guarded about losing. Does that help? oh you were quite clear. not only is a Dominant who shares what he owns not possessive of his property, but he is also not protective of it and does not value or cherish it. because if he did, he wouldn't dare do such a thing. i think i got the message. my original confusion stands, as well as the resulting sense of offense. You seem to be very sensitive to perceived offense when it comes to how you see things, but don't appear to grant others the right to feel differently. You questioned the logic of a dominant not wishing to share being referred to as "possessive". I could have taken offense at your comments... believed that you were implying that a dominant who doesn't share isn't truly possessive because they aren't using their submissive the way that you think they should by sharing them with others the way your daddy does. The fact is that I simply tried to explained to you how I often use the term "possessive". I did not judge and say that I was right and all others were wrong. I stated that value and risk are subjective... meaning we all get to decide what is right for us. quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Of course, value and risk are entirely subjective. For me, I see someone who is careless with their belongings as someone who doesn't place much value on them. Others, however, often feel that ownership is pointless unless you make the most of what it is that you own and use it to the fullest. Sharing does not imply carelessness. I think that I was clear in saying that for me, sharing a valued possession is a risk. That isn't making a value judgment on anyone else. I didn't say that everyone must share my thoughts on value and risk... I admitted that they subjective terms. There's no need to be offended.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 3:20:23 PM)
I believe it's your wording that causes the offense. It doesn't allow for sharing that isn't careless. Just because it's someone personal opinion doesn't mean that others can't be offended by the notion. For an extreme example: I'm offended by the opinion that homosexuals caused the 9/11 attack. It's an opinion but it's one that I find offensive - like the idea that all sharing is inherently careless. Please understand I am not comparing those two opinions in any way, only making an extreme example of how opinions can be offensive despite them only being personal opinions.

TreasureKY -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 4:13:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I believe it's your wording that causes the offense. It doesn't allow for sharing that isn't careless. Just because it's someone personal opinion doesn't mean that others can't be offended by the notion. For an extreme example: I'm offended by the opinion that homosexuals caused the 9/11 attack. It's an opinion but it's one that I find offensive - like the idea that all sharing is inherently careless. Please understand I am not comparing those two opinions in any way, only making an extreme example of how opinions can be offensive despite them only being personal opinions. Ah well... I wouldn't be offended by your example. I'd just think they were idiots. [;)] I do get what you're saying, though. But this is where it gets hard in trying to post something from a personal standpoint. My intention isn't to disparage others for thinking differently, merely to explain my position. I do feel I left much room for others to have their own value systems. I was very careful to say, "Personally, those things that I value most, I treat with great care and do not risk damage or loss" and "For me, I see someone who is careless with their belongings as someone who doesn't place much value on them." I suppose someone who really cares about how I value things might take offense. In fact, I sought a partner who has the same values so there wouldn't be a problem. But for the general population, it's okay if people disagree with me and what I believe... I don't take offense. I like to think that I'm capable of disagreeing with someone... even disapprove of how they see things... yet still respect their right to feel what they do. I suppose it's a bit naive to hope for the same in return, but I'm an eternal optimist. [:)]

AquaticSub -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 4:21:29 PM)
It's really the idea that they are being careless. You really do not seem to be acknowledging any sharing that isn't careless. I do agree with you that if I saw someone being careless, I would assume that they don't place much value on the object in question. It's simply that Val must be being careless. If you feel that all sharing is careless, then yes, I do find your opinion both ignorant of poly and open relationships and offensive. Doesn't rile me up by any means since - after all - you are just another poster on the forum and it doesn't change my opinion of you as a poster - I enjoy your posts overall. This is just an area where we vehemently disagree and I particularly dislike the notion that my owner is careless with me because he shares me. However I am secure in the knowledge that if you met him, you would be hard pressed to find anything careless about how he cares for me. [:)] ETA - I don't find you particularly naive. We just clearly have very different experiences in terms of sharing that has led us to have very different but strong opinions. [:)]

WolfyMontgomery -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 5:52:42 PM)
Different people show their possessiveness and protectiveness in different ways. And sometimes the same person will show multiple ways of revealing that possessiveness, just at different times pertaining to his mood. To use the kid with a toy example: A. Billy got a brand new action figure of some kind. He loves it and is very possessive of it, it's his. A friend asks if he can see it, and so Billy says, "Yes, because it's such an awesome toy I want to share it with you so you can know how awesome it is. But be careful with it, it's MINE." <-- An example of possessiveness and protectiveness in sharing. B. Billy got a brand new action figure of some kind. He loves it and is very possessive of it, it's his. A friend asks if he can see it, and Billy shakes his head, "No, it's MINE, and I don't want to share it, an accident might happen, you could damage it, and I want it all to myself." <-- An example of possessiveness and protectiveness in NOT sharing. In some ways, the not sharing is also something of a "greedy" feeling, wanting something all to yourself - but at the same time a lot of people really like it when that greed is focused on them. And it is something that makes some relationships work quite well. Master is a bit of both, depending on his mood. There are times when he wants to show off how awesome his woman is, and enjoy the show of showing me off - where he is protective and possessive in showing off his property, making the rules on what others can do to me and standing guard to make sure his property isn't damaged in any way. And other times he feels greedy and wants me all to himself, and takes me for himself, and even if we're at a swingers club at the time, will go, "No, she's MINE, and I'm not going to share her tonight." And often then goes and does me in public just so that anyone watching knows just how much HIS I really am ;D

HisEvelyn -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 9:06:04 PM)
I don't think people who share are careless in any way. If that dynamic works for them, then good for them. All I really know is how my Master expresses his possessiveness, which is very much in the 'MINE, no one else can touch" camp. And that makes me feel very secure. I don't think I ever really considered how one can be possessive and still share before. I think I always assumed that if people shared, there wasn't that same possessiveness or level of love and commitment. Mostly due to my lack of experience in such a situation. The only time I ever experienced a guy willing to share me was one who had no respect for me, no love. He essentially considered me a fucktoy to play with, that he could pass around his friends. I didn't even realize what he was doing until years later, when a few of his former friends told me about how he'd offered me to them a few times for kicks. I had always thought that he and I just occasionally enjoyed a threesome or two, not that he was essentially acting as my pimp without money involved. So I really want to thank those who do practice sharing in their loving relationships who participate in this discussion. It's given me a whole other level of intimacy to think about and ponder. I really enjoy learning about new perspectives and new ways to approach relationships. While I still don't feel sharing is something I could handle in my own relationships, I have a new understanding of yours. Thank you.

TreasureKY -> RE: Sharing (11/27/2010 11:10:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub It's really the idea that they are being careless. You really do not seem to be acknowledging any sharing that isn't careless. I do agree with you that if I saw someone being careless, I would assume that they don't place much value on the object in question. It's simply that Val must be being careless. Ahhh... I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to make it sound as if there were no way for anyone to share anything without being careless. Determining value and risk is not going to be the same for each person, and not necessarily even for the same person in all circumstances. And I'm sure I would find that Val takes very good care of you because you've always shown yourself to be well cared for. [:D]

DesFIP -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 6:52:21 AM)
My problem with possessiveness meaning sharing is that unless he's right there overseeing it, he does not possess her at the moment someone else is using her. There is always a risk that the other person will be careless in his usage of her leading to unintended damage which the original possessor did not want. Similar to lending your car to a friend and it coming back with a scratch on it. You certainly did not foresee it being permanently scratched when you lent it, but it is a possibility. No matter what happens after, the scratch remains. The friendship may end as a result but that won't repair the damage. Being the car in question, my belief in others is probably not strong enough for our relationship to survive me being permanently damaged because he lent me to someone who was careless with me. It's easy to say that the relationship would survive anything but we see relationships end everyday. Would my resentment of him loaning me out and allowing me therefore to be harmed be stronger than my trust in him? Would his guilt in misjudging who he loaned me to and allowing me to be harmed overwhelm his ability to handle being the boss? I don't know and certainly when we both would be suffering from negative emotions, the strong possibility of the relationship ending as a result is a high risk.

jujubeeMB -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 1:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP There is always a risk that the other person will be careless in his usage of her leading to unintended damage which the original possessor did not want. Similar to lending your car to a friend and it coming back with a scratch on it. You certainly did not foresee it being permanently scratched when you lent it, but it is a possibility. No matter what happens after, the scratch remains. I can tell you firsthand that this does happen. I've got a "scratch" that no one intended to cause (and everyone was very sorry about after) but will always sort of be there. It didn't ruin my trust in my Dom, but it did cause me to be permanently nervous about being shared.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 3:27:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP My problem with possessiveness meaning sharing is that unless he's right there overseeing it, he does not possess her at the moment someone else is using her. Nor is he there at work, where a few customers have made sexual comments and touched me in a situation where it was completely out of line. It's much safer for me to be shared with one person at a time who he knows, who I know, who we both feel comfortable with yet having to work is a fact of life for us. Very few on this board would have an issue with him allowing/having me to hold down a job. While there are some power dynamics where the owner is always there and the property is never alone.... I would wilt beyond belief in one of those. In our lives, Valyraen possesses me just as much when another is using me as he does any other time. Because all it takes is me hearing his ringtone and everything stops. quote: There is always a risk that the other person will be careless in his usage of her leading to unintended damage which the original possessor did not want. Similar to lending your car to a friend and it coming back with a scratch on it. You certainly did not foresee it being permanently scratched when you lent it, but it is a possibility. No matter what happens after, the scratch remains. The friendship may end as a result but that won't repair the damage. I would not lend a car to someone with whom my friendship would be ruined if the car got screwed up. I just wouldn't. That strikes me as careless. But I do loan my car - to those I am confident would do everything they could to repair the damage. We take the same approach with me. quote: I don't know and certainly when we both would be suffering from negative emotions, the strong possibility of the relationship ending as a result is a high risk. I think if it's a high risk depends entirely on the people involved. For us... we've made it through someone returning me damaged, a lot more than we forsaw and ya know... my new coat of paint and tune-up is coming along pretty nicely. I feel more like I'm being upgraded than fixed. Kinda a "Well, the speakers that came standard blew. Let's put in a frikkin' sweet sound system while we're mucking about in there!" [;)]

KatyLied -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 4:33:19 PM)
quote: I don't know and certainly when we both would be suffering from negative emotions, the strong possibility of the relationship ending as a result is a high risk. I am strongly, intensely monogamous. I truly can not get my head around any sort of swinging or poly or sharing situation. I think that people who dig that stuff are simply differently wired and it does not represent the risk to them that it does to someone who is wired for monogamy. For instance, in a sharing scenario I would be concerned about things like emotional attachment, what if I like the other guy more than I like my dominant? What if he is able to exercise some sort of control over me that extends beyond the encounter? What if I want him to exercise more control? To me, it is like inviting an unknown, scary element into a relationship. A huge risk.

jujubeeMB -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 8:40:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub For us... we've made it through someone returning me damaged, a lot more than we forsaw and ya know... my new coat of paint and tune-up is coming along pretty nicely. I feel more like I'm being upgraded than fixed. Kinda a "Well, the speakers that came standard blew. Let's put in a frikkin' sweet sound system while we're mucking about in there!" [;)] Can I ask you how you've come to feel that way about it? Just from someone with a similar experience (getting damaged a bit, getting repaired in stages), I'd love to know what you and your Dom did to make it into a positive experience, both psychologically and emotionally. I'm in a great place right now, but I would love to know if there's something more I can be doing to make accidental "damaging" moments into something good for myself. I realize this is a bizarre question, but you seem to feel pretty positive about it.

graceadieu -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 8:51:46 PM)
Well, we both enjoy having a good time with another woman, so that certainly wouldn't be an issue. But he's not into swinging, so I'd be surprised if he suggested that. It's just not something we do. If for some reason he wanted to... I guess we'd cross that bridge when we came to it.

NuevaVida -> RE: Sharing (11/28/2010 10:08:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida For some, being possessive means "All mine and for no one else to touch." yes, i've read that, but i just don't get the logic. if a Dominant just flat out doesn't want another to touch what is his, okay then, but that's not a defining factor of possessiveness. it's no biggie, just something i've often heard expressed when it comes to this topic that's always left me scratching my head. Daddy would probably describe possessiveness as "Mine, ALL mine, and hence i'll do what i please with it." And in my case, he'd say "Mine, ALL mine, and I want to be totally selfish with it, therefore no other man is touching it." Which is, of course, doing what he pleases.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Sharing (11/29/2010 8:59:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY You seem to be very sensitive to perceived offense when it comes to how you see things, but don't appear to grant others the right to feel differently. You questioned the logic of a dominant not wishing to share being referred to as "possessive". I could have taken offense at your comments... believed that you were implying that a dominant who doesn't share isn't truly possessive because they aren't using their submissive the way that you think they should by sharing them with others the way your daddy does... The fact is that I simply tried to explained to you how I often use the term "possessive". I did not judge and say that I was right and all others were wrong. I stated that value and risk are subjective... meaning we all get to decide what is right for us. I think that I was clear in saying that for me, sharing a valued possession is a risk. That isn't making a value judgment on anyone else. I didn't say that everyone must share my thoughts on value and risk... I admitted that they subjective terms. There's no need to be offended. of course we all get to decide what is right for us. and i'm sure you didn't intend any offense by your comments, but hopefully now you can see why they were taken that way. as for someone taking offense by my comments here, that would be rather difficult as i never implied that someone must share in order to truly be possessive. that wouldn't even make sense, as my entire point is that sharing or not does not define possessiveness. whereas your comments made it clear that you feel not being shared was not only a sign of a Dominant's possessiveness over his submissive, but a sign that he is protective and values her as well...which can only mean that you feel Dominant who does decide to share his property with others is not so protective and does not value what is his. you recognize the right of others to live as they please and do what is best for them, but that is the way you personally read the situation. we all make judgments, every single day, and that is no crime...the reality is also sometimes we will offend others with those judgments. that's just life.

Elisabella -> RE: Sharing (11/29/2010 3:01:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana 3-Again, this is all kinds of fucked up, but the very fact that she doesn't like this idea is kinda what makes it so hot. I mean shit, I own her ass. But yeah, the fact that she is doing something she doesn't like, that she is only doing it to please and satisfy me, that in a million years she would never do this otherwise, isn't that the root of slavery? And ya know what? As much as she wouldn't care for the act (And she wouldn't. She would only comply to obedient), my grasping at the root controls, reaching as far as I can within and yanking, yeah, that'll make her hot too. Just a hypothetical question here - what if you two did try it...and she ended up loving it, and wanting to do it more? Would that affect your relationship? Would you still find it hot?

HisManegirl -> RE: Sharing (11/29/2010 8:12:37 PM)
Darksteven- why does it seem easier for a man to share a woman sexuallly with another woman, but not a man?? Just curious. Maybe I need to start a thread about this. Anyway, I have fantasized about being with two men at the same time and we have talked about it. His take on it is that he wouldn't want to deny me any experience I'd like to have. But he wouldn't set out to share me, unless I requested it. Some times I do fantasize about it, and then I think if the other guy sucked it would be a waste of a good fantasy. And some fantasies are just better left as fantasies.

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