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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Does this not point to a basic problem with the ethos and ethics of the organization?  Or is this just the result of political maneuvering on the part of ACORN opponents?

Neither.

It was never "voter fraud" it was "voter's registration fraud". 

We have a handful of people scattered across the country who wanted to be paid for work they didn't do.  They duplicated names from each others list or just filled in names.

Normally they would just get fired or at worst have the company try and take the pay check back.  Since this involved voter registration their stupidity earned them an arrest. 

The people convicted were petty thieves who picked the wrong pocket.


Let's try the actual news.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/101418199.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-22/politics/voter.fraud_1_voter-registration-acorn-workers-number-of-swing-states?_s=PM:POLITICS

Neither of your "actual news" contradicts anything in the article I posted links to.

Mighty nice of you to "give a pass" to an organization which has had 15 convictions to date on attempts to suborn citizen's rights to elect the officials they chose.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Let's try the actual news.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/101418199.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-22/politics/voter.fraud_1_voter-registration-acorn-workers-number-of-swing-states?_s=PM:POLITICS

Are you trying to imply The Daily Caller is not actual news?

It's one of the finest news sources for the conservative mind.

It ranks right up there with The American Thinker, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck.

You are attacking the source, without disputing the facts.

You don't have to trust the source, but when you only attack it as a source which doesn't hew to your particular ideological mindset, without any proof or explanation of how the facts are incorrect, it simply makes you look ... like an Alinskite.

As well, I think it's funny ... when I simply asked a question, you seem to be afraid to enter into a discussion, and state your opinion, but rather cast aspirations on a source so that you don't even have to discuss the issue.

rml ... you are a smart guy, but act like an ideologue and true believer in their worst possible definitions.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Well Ken by Firm's reasoning Delay's conviction on money laundering and conspiracy means the entire Republican Party is guilty.  Right?

Since he was the house Majority Speaker and the money was funneled through the Republican National Committee they are all guilty.

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ORIGINAL: Brain


No, what applies for Republicans is vote early and vote often. That's what I heard working in conservative election campaigns and that's what I saw Ann Coulter do and they never did anything to punish her. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Brain


I agree with you. ACORN got the vote out for the Democrats, that's his or Republicans real problem with them.

So "One man, one vote" only applies if they are voting Republican, huh?

Firm

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Actually there was a point behind that.

Conservative news sources tend to exaggerate the facts to pander to their base.

And before you say it I realize liberal news sources do the same, but to a much lesser degree.

Before Obama was elected we saw the same thing that Republicans and the conservative media did to Clinton, taking minor issues and blowing them completely out of proportion.

And is it just continuing.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

out of 400,000 - 500,000 employees.... hmmmm... not seeing the widespread fraud yet. But, its always a possibility.

So ... you don't see multiple employees, across the nation, who have all been convicted of similar crimes says anything about the organization which hired them?

Nothing about the employee vetting process?  Nothing about, perhaps, "any means to achieve the goal"?  And nothing about the care taken by the organization to ensure that the employees understood that illegal activities would not be tolerated?

Personally, no - of course not. But if you do, I'd certainly be interested in hearing you explain why.

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Well Ken by Firm's reasoning Delay's conviction on money laundering and conspiracy means the entire Republican Party is guilty.  Right?

Since he was the house Majority Speaker and the money was funneled through the Republican National Committee they are all guilty.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

List of Republican party offenders
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/

incomplete list and less tidy list,  the offender democrats
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2029856/posts

and this is going back oh 20 years and less... I think theres some perspective here, if more investigations were done into any government or private corporation , it would be the same

has anyone outside of acorn ever had such numbers of investigations and accusations(ok yeah the govmnt as a whole maybe). How  many were false? how many were found not guilty, how many were accused and lost their jobs to have charges dropped?

turn over any rock and you will find shit.. it  depends how much dirt and shit you really want to uncover and how you abuse it.

Id love to see the fraud and crimes in the insurance company, the financial companies, they seem to be largely ignored tho.
Strange that

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

out of 400,000 - 500,000 employees.... hmmmm... not seeing the widespread fraud yet. But, its always a possibility.

So ... you don't see multiple employees, across the nation, who have all been convicted of similar crimes says anything about the organization which hired them?

Nothing about the employee vetting process?  Nothing about, perhaps, "any means to achieve the goal"?  And nothing about the care taken by the organization to ensure that the employees understood that illegal activities would not be tolerated?

Personally, no - of course not. But if you do, I'd certainly be interested in hearing you explain why.

Panda,

I was asking, not telling.

Certainly, my own biases (which I recognize) wants to lead me to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the organization, but I'm willing to learn.

I will say, however, that the people who are defending ACORN have put up a good defense that will be useful the next time someone starts screaming about how "all" Republicans are corrupt, due to the actions of a few.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The "all because of a few" excuse tends to be a republican trait.

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Yes, how silly of me.  You meant nothing by posting a right wing source which insinuated Acorn was guilty of voter fraud rather than using any of the available news sources.

Sorry you didn't invoke the arguments and yelling you were hoping to start.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Certainly, my own biases (which I recognize) wants to lead me to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the organization, but I'm willing to learn.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Actually, all you are demonstrating is that your confirmation bias is alive and well.

You still have not disputed a single fact in the article.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Shall we start with title, "Voter fraud conviction"?  Shall we continue with this statement, "2010 has been a banner year for Acorn voter fraud convictions"?

You do understand the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud?  The individuals were convicted of voter registration fraud.  The article tries, where it can get away with it, in  making it seem as if there was voter fraud during the election.  Second which convictions were of Acorn?  They were for individuals who were stupid in trying to make a buck without doing the work. 

The news articles make that clear.  The right wing source you picked attempts to muddy the waters on that subject.

Electoral fraud refers to is illegal interference with the process of an election. The definition of the term varies from country to country. Generally it includes illegal voter registration, intimidation at polls and improper vote counting. Even though technically the term 'electoral fraud' covers only illegal acts, the term is also used to describe acts morally unacceptable, outside the spirit of electoral laws or in violation of the principles of democracy.

Electoral fraud is also termed voter fraud.

A former employee of an embattled community organizing group pleaded guilty Tuesday to voter fraud in connection with the 2008 presidential election.

Maria Miles, 37, of Milwaukee, admitted to submitting multiple voter registration applications for some people and to scheming with other Association of Community Organization for Reform workers to sign people up several times in an effort to meet the organization's voter registration quotas.

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Certainly, my own biases (which I recognize) wants to lead me to the conclusion that there is something wrong with the organization, but I'm willing to learn.

You finally made a true statement.  It was your bias that you used to post the article form the right wing source rather than the actual news articles.  The news articles are clear that these were individuals and refer to Acorn as the victim.  Clearly, as the news articles point out, neither the false names or the people who signed themselves up multiple times were going to be voting that way.  There was no benefit to Acorn, unless you can come up with a scheme which has Acorn printing false id's and trying to have people vote under those registrations.  If you can then I am all on board for nailing them to the wall.

It's your normal smoke and mirrors act.  You accuse everyone else of bias to distract from your own.

By your own conclusion if something is wrong with the organization known as Acorn for what these individuals did then something is wrong with the organization known as the Republican Party.  Tom Delay was the Majority Speaker when the acts he has been convicted for happened.  Doubly the RNC was involved in laundering the money. 

Ahhh, but I did see you stayed completely away from that topic when it was posted.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Actually, all you are demonstrating is that your confirmation bias is alive and well.

You still have not disputed a single fact in the article.

Firm

And all you are demonstrating is your belief in this bullshit theory of confirmation bias is alive and well.

Tell me Firm, does belief in confirmation bias indicate a confirmation bias toward believing in confirmation bias?

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ORIGINAL: Brain


No, what applies for Republicans is vote early and vote often. That's what I heard working in conservative election campaigns and that's what I saw Ann Coulter do and they never did anything to punish her. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.