RE: A Degree Of Envy

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SpiritedRadiance -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/10/2010 1:07:33 AM)
I do think there is a difference in numbers with more males to females however, even as a female I dont have the pick of the litter. Im a monogamous female, LaT is seeking only women.... Some only seek poly. Because of these factors, even though the numbers are "in our odds" they arent in our odds. Ive been in the scene real life a few months and nearly all of the munches have been more women then men, The only time this is not the case is the play party that happens every few weeks where theres about 15 men per woman, (I tend to hide at these events because of the mew factor of it all) Ive never seen the envy You speak of LP maybe its because of limited experience or which groups Ive joined, Ive only seen the bs online and Im quite happy i havent had it real life.

cloudboy -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 8:32:30 AM)
It is what it is. I need only look at my own marriage or the experiences of my Mistress to see how much easier it for women to find suitable partners. I think the advantages include friendship opportunities as well, as men are open to being friends with women but women are very guarded (especially with married men) about friendship with men. To keep things together, guys need to function very well independently. In an odd way, I like having a harder road to hoe.

LadyConstanze -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 12:11:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze .......and the funny thing is when I tried to tell him that, he claimed a man being attracted to a woman who seems available and "invites" touching by sleeping over is normal, yet if it's a guy it's not normal... I was trying to make the point that unwanted touching is never ok. I wasn't trying to say what happended to your bf was exactly the same as rape. I felt less sympatheic towards him after reading what you posted above! I wasn't saying unwanted touching or pawing is ever ok, just as a woman you learn to deal with those issues, you grow up with them and learn to avoid situations where it could lead to a problem so much, you don't actually even think about them anymore. We all had our butts pinched one time or another in crowded public transportation or some stranger trying to take liberties, to straight guys this hardly ever happens because women don't tend to show their interest in a guy by feeling him up straight away (to be fair, most men are better behaved than that but you get the odd creepy guy and there are plenty around), so when it happens to them they're just shocked because it never happened ever before, new situation, never dealt with it before, baffled, shocked, spooked out... As for bf - for this one it's EX please in capital letters ;) He also thought period cramps are overrated since he sometimes cuts himself shaving he doesn't understand what the fuss is all about and I only faint because I'm such a wuss...

LadyConstanze -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 12:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy It is what it is. I need only look at my own marriage or the experiences of my Mistress to see how much easier it for women to find suitable partners. I think the advantages include friendship opportunities as well, as men are open to being friends with women but women are very guarded (especially with married men) about friendship with men. To keep things together, guys need to function very well independently. In an odd way, I like having a harder road to hoe. Being approached more often doesn't mean you actually have it easier, you still have to go through the frog kissing

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 3:24:30 PM)
The numbers have never been that different for me. But that's because I don't tend to look for dominant women on places like collarme, even though one would suspect that this is where you'd find more of them. Here, I find people who I engage in conversations, but meeting actual partners from here is not something I try that hard to do, mainly because I realize the odds of being successful are so thrown in an imbalance that a sincere submissive is often cast aside because the hunters are often looking for partners, and way too many submissives are willing to pretend to be sincere submissives in hopes of getting some play before they're discovered to be the trolls they really are. Instead, I have found many women in the vanilla ranks who are really not as vanilla as you'd think they'd be. When I was younger, I used to run across a lot of women who once they found out I was an "in" to the bdsm community, they were suddenly a lot more interested than they would have let on before. Later on, I came across a lot of women who wanted to spice up basic vanilla relationships, almost to the point where I was shocked that they were suggesting some of the things that they were. I will admit to being a complete heel at time when I actually let a few partners "introduce" me to their fantasies of a bdsm lifestyle. Yeah, I feel bad about it now, but sometimes you do what comes naturally. The point is, I think there are a lot of women who are into bdsm activities but just don't join the groups that are recognized as bdsm-related. The problem is that guys are generally lazy and don't want to go through the work of cultivating anyone or exploring such things without an immediate belief of a definite payoff at the end. That's partly why I believe that professional dominants do such great business; they're easier to find and less likely to negotiate out of a bdsm experience. They're pretty honest about what they're interested in right up and front. For me, collarme serves as a great place to meet like minded people who are into this lifestyle. You meet all sorts here, from beginniners to lifestylers that might scare the living crap out of you. Anyway, this wasn't meant to be worded as an argument, but just a perspective to be viewed as one man's opinion. I don't suggest to speak for anyone else but me.

RedMagic1 -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 6:29:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyRian quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I get what you're saying, pyro, but I think it works both ways. When folks are first starting out, it's not so much a quality vrs quantity debate. When a woman is learning to top, needing help with skills, wanting people to play with so she can learn this technique or that, she doesn't have issues with volunteers. Male tops often can't say the same thing. Being welcomed at the new munch? Same thing. Some of this shows up in places like the forums. The same question can be asked by a male or a female, but the female will get the better response rate. Women have the easier path. I find this to be absolutely true. Many people are agreeing like this, so these comments must be true on some level. On the other hand, on another level, they are clearly false -- just look at all the posts from women about the disastrous relationships they had with their new Master or their fake slave. Maybe it's easier for women to find play partners, but ain't no way women have it easier in the relationship department. They create a lot of these problems themselves. A large percentage of women in BDSM -- and in vanilla -- have crappy relationship-choosing criteria. This issue of "I need a dom with experience" is a great example. Who cares if the man has experience? Seriously. (A lot of people, I know, but that's my point.) Does he have self-control, the ability to learn, and the ability to take advice from women. (Many men don't have any of those, even if they have a black belt in flogger, or floggee.) "How do I know a Master is real?" is a regular topic on these boards. It's almost always women asking, thinking somehow kinky dating is fundamentally different from any other kind of dating. You can't tell me that dominant women have this all figured out, and it's just sub women who are screwed up. A lot of women, period, have no idea what they are attracted to, or they are attracted to things that are unhealthy for them. On to envy. Hell yes it's real. I think PORN has a lot to do with its creation. Lady Pact's relationships look like the OWK Cinema, right? At least, that's my best guess, because that's all I've been able to observe directly, since I've never been able to play with anyone, but OWK is all over the net. Shit. Now I'm envious of her. Crap. Porn is like relationship heroin. Guys want that, or expect others have that, instead of realizing that reality is imperfect. Warts and all.

PeonForHer -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 7:39:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Being approached more often doesn't mean you actually have it easier, you still have to go through the frog kissing I only really grasped that point after monitoring LadyNTrainer's secondary profile here for a while. The worst I've ever had to deal with is the occasional Domme who's a little bit off her trolley. I don't think that I could stand the constant drivel that Dommes get in their inboxes.

LadyConstanze -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 7:50:01 PM)
Peon, yeah I had a few awesome offers today... 1. A guy from Birmingham who wanted me to visit him (complete stranger, yeah, I come to his house suuuure) and do a scat session with him - that's 2 hard limits at once, Birmingham and scat, I told him that in no uncertain terms (I wish I would simply have blocked and not bothered), he came back that he's affluent and he would give me £20 for my trouble. Errr, OK, so I tell him I am not interested, hard limit and he thinks he can change that for £20? Do I look that cheap? Mind you do I look so desperate to do something I really don't want to do that I spend £30 of my own money, because the ticket is roughly around £50... 2. The guy who will do anything for me if I show him my tits on cam apart from <insert long list of activities> but otherwise would be my total slave and serve me totally... I did block that one, I can only handle replying to one weirdo a day...

marsneedswomen -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 8:02:46 PM)
Regardless of whether it's kink or vanilla, women always have the advantage in most social environments over single men. Women get into clubs easier, especially if they are younger and/or prettier. Ask any guy standing in line to get into a club and watching women not getting carded or the stare from the doorman. It's just the way that it is and I sense more annoyance than envy. mnw

PeonForHer -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 8:04:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze 1. A guy from Birmingham who wanted me to visit him (complete stranger, yeah, I come to his house suuuure) and do a scat session with him - that's 2 hard limits at once, Birmingham and scat, I told him that in no uncertain terms (I wish I would simply have blocked and not bothered), he came back that he's affluent and he would give me £20 for my trouble. Errr, OK, so I tell him I am not interested, hard limit and he thinks he can change that for £20? Do I look that cheap? Mind you do I look so desperate to do something I really don't want to do that I spend £30 of my own money, because the ticket is roughly around £50... Well, somebody's going to ask, so it might as well be me: how much would his offer need to have been? £500? I mean, a monkey's quite a lot of money for, say, an hour's work - albeit a very weird hour's work.

LadyPact -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/13/2010 9:32:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Many people are agreeing like this, so these comments must be true on some level. On the other hand, on another level, they are clearly false -- just look at all the posts from women about the disastrous relationships they had with their new Master or their fake slave. Maybe it's easier for women to find play partners, but ain't no way women have it easier in the relationship department. They create a lot of these problems themselves. Hi Red. How are you? Actually, the point of the post didn't have anything to do with relationships. I think men and women are pretty equal there. It had more to do with the social aspects that are connected with BDSM. I was attempting to focus on the difference between doors that are regularly open for women that men don't necessarily have the same access. quote: A large percentage of women in BDSM -- and in vanilla -- have crappy relationship-choosing criteria. This issue of "I need a dom with experience" is a great example. Who cares if the man has experience? Seriously. (A lot of people, I know, but that's my point.) Does he have self-control, the ability to learn, and the ability to take advice from women. (Many men don't have any of those, even if they have a black belt in flogger, or floggee.) I find that most of the folks asking those kinds of questions don't have a whole heck of a lot of experience themselves. If they did, they wouldn't have to ask. quote: "How do I know a Master is real?" is a regular topic on these boards. It's almost always women asking, thinking somehow kinky dating is fundamentally different from any other kind of dating. You can't tell me that dominant women have this all figured out, and it's just sub women who are screwed up. A lot of women, period, have no idea what they are attracted to, or they are attracted to things that are unhealthy for them. Again, that's a lack of experience area and it happens on both sides of the kneel for both genders. However, this isn't My area, as I've mentioned several times on various topics that I don't date. quote: On to envy. Hell yes it's real. I think PORN has a lot to do with its creation. Lady Pact's relationships look like the OWK Cinema, right? At least, that's my best guess, because that's all I've been able to observe directly, since I've never been able to play with anyone, but OWK is all over the net. Shit. Now I'm envious of her. Crap. Porn is like relationship heroin. Guys want that, or expect others have that, instead of realizing that reality is imperfect. Warts and all. What prompted the original was My notice of how a new male to a group can get a much different reception than I have ever had at a munch or an event. An example of this is, in a lot of cases where groups have a minimum munch requirement before being invited to a play occasion. Often , I've gone to My first munch in a new area and received an invite to the play party that night. I can't tell you how often I've skipped the vetting process and just been welcomed with open arms. That's not the usual experience for males. This isn't just a singular experience in My case. It happens often for women. From what I'm hearing, it's pretty common.

LadyConstanze -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 4:11:33 AM)
Peon, a hard limit is a hard limit, it's something people should respect. Take it the other way round, if somebody would approach you to poop on you or get pooped on by you, I guess you would also not be too pleased, how would you react if they would just ignore your polite "I'm not interested, it's a hard limit for me" and come back with "Oh I give you £20 and you should be grateful that I'm such a big spender" - let me ask you, how pissed off would you be? It's the mind set that hard limits can be bought, and apparently they aren't worth much. I'm not up to date on the current prices for sessions in the UK, but I'd be surprised if that would be the 10th of such a session, so apparently some men are of the opinion that hard limits of women can be bought and rather cheaply!

RedMagic1 -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 8:17:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Hi Red. How are you? Actually, the point of the post didn't have anything to do with relationships. I think men and women are pretty equal there. It had more to do with the social aspects that are connected with BDSM. I was attempting to focus on the difference between doors that are regularly open for women that men don't necessarily have the same access. I'm great! How are you?[:)] I think if you discuss the envy that appears on these message boards, LP, you are opening the thread topic up to things outside the scene. I get the strong impression that the guys who express the most envy, from d, s, or switch sides, are not active in local scenes. So I thought you were talking about something broader, and I really do believe that porn for men, and chick flicks for women help both genders have totally unrealistic understandings of how human beings actually develop relationships. Not that I want to ban either, but I wish people watched less TV, and had more good examples in their lives of healthy, stable relationships. Regarding the easier-road-for-women point, there have been recent event announcements in the Upcoming Events section, whose main selling point appears to be that there are no male wallflowers permitted. You're guaranteed play the minute you walk in the door, and femdoms greet you as soon as you walk in. I haven't been to these events, and don't know how good their execution of the idea is, but it does seem to be a good business attempt: encourage attendance by directly addressing the problems you and other commenters have mentoned.

YSG -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 8:30:01 AM)
Personally, I do not feel envy towards any female. Yes, there do seem to be more males than females in the scene, but this doesnt concern me. I know who I am, I know what I want, and who I generally tend to appeal to. The great thing about being me.... is there is only one of me [:D]

LadyPact -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 10:02:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I'm great! How are you?[:)] I think if you discuss the envy that appears on these message boards, LP, you are opening the thread topic up to things outside the scene. I get the strong impression that the guys who express the most envy, from d, s, or switch sides, are not active in local scenes. So I thought you were talking about something broader, and I really do believe that porn for men, and chick flicks for women help both genders have totally unrealistic understandings of how human beings actually develop relationships. Not that I want to ban either, but I wish people watched less TV, and had more good examples in their lives of healthy, stable relationships. Regarding the easier-road-for-women point, there have been recent event announcements in the Upcoming Events section, whose main selling point appears to be that there are no male wallflowers permitted. You're guaranteed play the minute you walk in the door, and femdoms greet you as soon as you walk in. I haven't been to these events, and don't know how good their execution of the idea is, but it does seem to be a good business attempt: encourage attendance by directly addressing the problems you and other commenters have mentoned. I'm doing well, Red. Thank you for asking. I did include the online bit in the original due to the fact that it is the commonality here. I think vancraft had a very good point in the matter that, depending on which gender is the author of a thread or a comment, there can be a noticeable difference in response to the comments. A good example of this are the 'I'm a new D-type' threads. Not nearly as well received if written by a man, rather than a woman. Very reflective of what happens in the real world that prompted the original. As to what you noticed in the new trend in Upcoming events, I've seen that, too. I can confirm that the strategy works. I promoted and ran a slave auction a couple of months back for a local group. It was the highest attended event in the group's ten year history. One of the biggest selling points? Any bottom being sold on the auction block was going to get to play. No cases of wallflowers or people hoping that they might have an opportunity. No going to the dungeon and maybe there would be inclusion and maybe there wouldn't. Heck, I'm still getting emails from people who have seen Me mention it on the boards and wanting to know when the next one is and how many munches they would have to attend with the group so they can be vetted in time for the next one.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 1:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze 1. A guy from Birmingham who wanted me to visit him (complete stranger, yeah, I come to his house suuuure) and do a scat session with him - that's 2 hard limits at once, Birmingham and scat, I told him that in no uncertain terms (I wish I would simply have blocked and not bothered), he came back that he's affluent and he would give me £20 for my trouble. Errr, OK, so I tell him I am not interested, hard limit and he thinks he can change that for £20? Do I look that cheap? Mind you do I look so desperate to do something I really don't want to do that I spend £30 of my own money, because the ticket is roughly around £50... Well, somebody's going to ask, so it might as well be me: how much would his offer need to have been? £500? I mean, a monkey's quite a lot of money for, say, an hour's work - albeit a very weird hour's work. Tell you what, Darling, fly me out there and I will poop on you gratis. [:D]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 1:30:08 PM)
I think I am living a parallel life to the one you all are talking about. Which is entirely possible! Since I took a step back from event organizing, the scene is a different place for me. (Not better, just different.)

LadyConstanze -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 2:10:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze 1. A guy from Birmingham who wanted me to visit him (complete stranger, yeah, I come to his house suuuure) and do a scat session with him - that's 2 hard limits at once, Birmingham and scat, I told him that in no uncertain terms (I wish I would simply have blocked and not bothered), he came back that he's affluent and he would give me £20 for my trouble. Errr, OK, so I tell him I am not interested, hard limit and he thinks he can change that for £20? Do I look that cheap? Mind you do I look so desperate to do something I really don't want to do that I spend £30 of my own money, because the ticket is roughly around £50... Well, somebody's going to ask, so it might as well be me: how much would his offer need to have been? £500? I mean, a monkey's quite a lot of money for, say, an hour's work - albeit a very weird hour's work. Tell you what, Darling, fly me out there and I will poop on you gratis. [:D] And I take you for a curry the night before. Hope you like vindaloo...

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 3:13:55 PM)
~loves vindaloo~

LadyPact -> RE: A Degree Of Envy (12/14/2010 5:36:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I think I am living a parallel life to the one you all are talking about. Which is entirely possible! Since I took a step back from event organizing, the scene is a different place for me. (Not better, just different.) Attempting to keep the thread on track here for a minute....... It might be exactly that, since I did get back into organizing and such. I had taken a year off from it when we moved. These last few months that I've been doing it again show a different angle of things. Not the bitter stuff that ends up being the tone of some posts here. Instead, sincere discussions with folks who are glad that certain types of events are more inclusive, rather than the 'take a chance' norm that they are familiar with. I've mentioned the same topic (roughly) at a time before. I think since I've been more active again, it's closer to home. Ask Me how many years it's been since I had to fulfill a vetting process for access to events.

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