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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/10/2010 8:04:46 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It would probably be best to have a breakdown of exactly how that money in HHS is being spent, I doubt all of it is on TANF


The link provided has some further information.

Unfortunately the furthest breakdown provided by USASpending.gov for HHS is:

$18.9 B for Contracts (Mutually binding agreements between the federal government and another party (the seller) that obligate the seller to furnish supplies and services for the direct benefit of the government and obligate the government to pay for them.  These do not include grants, co-operative agreements, or contracts under grants.)

$369.9 B for Grants (Funds awarded to a non-federal entity for a defined public or private purpose in which services are not rendered to the federal government.  Grants includes Cooperative Agreements.)

$242.0 B for Direct Payments (Funds paid to individuals who have been assessed as needing services, in lieu of social service provisions, generally for the large entitlement programs such as Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Housing Choice Vouchers, and Federal Pell Grants.)

Please note that the figures provided are only for HHS and do not include HUD, SSA, DOE, DOA, or any other agency that may provide assistance to individuals.  The descriptions of the categories above are general descriptions given to cover all agencies.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/10/2010 8:06:44 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

discretionary budget for 2010 $1.39 trillion. TANF 17 billion. WIC, CNP, SNAP 95 billion. so even if you count only the discretionary budget it is less that 10 cents on the dollar. That compares to more than 50 cents of every dollar spent on defence.


According to the US Government we've spent $351,091,100,000 for the Department of Defense in 2010... whereas we've spent $630,800,000,000 for the Department of Health and Human Services.

I may be wrong, but according to my math $351 Billion is almost half of $630 Billion.

And no... I didn't get those figures flipped around.  We've spent nearly twice as much on our welfare infrastructure than on defense.


I don't know where you got those numbers at tbut they're wrong.

The Dod discretionary budget for FY 2010 is $680 Billion. non DoD defence spending contributes another $300 to 600 Billion (depending on how you define the edges of defence spending).

HHS's discretionary budget for FY 2010 is roughly $88 Billion.
http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefa.html

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/10/2010 8:09:04 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

discretionary budget for 2010 $1.39 trillion. TANF 17 billion. WIC, CNP, SNAP 95 billion. so even if you count only the discretionary budget it is less that 10 cents on the dollar. That compares to more than 50 cents of every dollar spent on defence.


According to the US Government we've spent $351,091,100,000 for the Department of Defense in 2010... whereas we've spent $630,800,000,000 for the Department of Health and Human Services.

I may be wrong, but according to my math $351 Billion is almost half of $630 Billion.

And no... I didn't get those figures flipped around.  We've spent nearly twice as much on our welfare infrastructure than on defense.


I don't know where you got those numbers at tbut they're wrong.

The Dod discretionary budget for FY 2010 is $680 Billion. non DoD defence spending contributes another $300 to 600 Billion (depending on how you define the edges of defence spending).

HHS's discretionary budget for FY 2010 is roughly $88 Billion.
http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefa.html



You might contact the government to let them know they are wrong.  I provided a link, you know.

Oh... and you're talking budgets.  I've provided a link to what's actually been spent.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 12/10/2010 8:10:05 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/10/2010 8:11:48 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

discretionary budget for 2010 $1.39 trillion. TANF 17 billion. WIC, CNP, SNAP 95 billion. so even if you count only the discretionary budget it is less that 10 cents on the dollar. That compares to more than 50 cents of every dollar spent on defence.


According to the US Government we've spent $351,091,100,000 for the Department of Defense in 2010... whereas we've spent $630,800,000,000 for the Department of Health and Human Services.

I may be wrong, but according to my math $351 Billion is almost half of $630 Billion.

And no... I didn't get those figures flipped around.  We've spent nearly twice as much on our welfare infrastructure than on defense.


I don't know where you got those numbers at tbut they're wrong.

The Dod discretionary budget for FY 2010 is $680 Billion. non DoD defence spending contributes another $300 to 600 Billion (depending on how you define the edges of defence spending).

HHS's discretionary budget for FY 2010 is roughly $88 Billion.
http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefa.html



You do understand that the discretionary budget doesn't include the mandatory budget, don't you?  Discretionary spending is only about half of the total budget.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/10/2010 8:36:06 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The idea isn't to abort people from the system, but for people to opt out of being forced to support the system.

Do you seriously believe there is no one who would voluntarily continue to pay taxes to support the various welfare programs of the Government?



The idea is actually for people to be able to selectively opt out of part of the system I believe.

We all have the choice of opting out entirely as things stand .... just pack up and go somewhere else is an option open to everyone at all times. If you choose to hang around, you are involved.

And of course, if that principle of selective participation is adopted, where does it stop? If we agree on the basic democratic principle of "one rule for all without fear or favour", then everyone else has the same right to selectively opt out as you .......

It seems to me that your realistic options might be limited to either moving somewhere else where the system is more to your taste, or getting really involved and changing the system where you live from the inside.

There are other options (eg living on the proverbial 'desert island' or starting a successful revolution) but they are a tad more controversial, often illegal and possibly even more distasteful.

So, in the end, and especially in light of the impossibility of removing failure from any human system, your choices are purely pragmatic.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/10/2010 8:53:09 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 6:36:18 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

discretionary budget for 2010 $1.39 trillion. TANF 17 billion. WIC, CNP, SNAP 95 billion. so even if you count only the discretionary budget it is less that 10 cents on the dollar. That compares to more than 50 cents of every dollar spent on defence.


According to the US Government we've spent $351,091,100,000 for the Department of Defense in 2010... whereas we've spent $630,800,000,000 for the Department of Health and Human Services.

I may be wrong, but according to my math $351 Billion is almost half of $630 Billion.

And no... I didn't get those figures flipped around.  We've spent nearly twice as much on our welfare infrastructure than on defense.


I don't know where you got those numbers at tbut they're wrong.

The Dod discretionary budget for FY 2010 is $680 Billion. non DoD defence spending contributes another $300 to 600 Billion (depending on how you define the edges of defence spending).

HHS's discretionary budget for FY 2010 is roughly $88 Billion.
http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefa.html



You do understand that the discretionary budget doesn't include the mandatory budget, don't you?  Discretionary spending is only about half of the total budget.


Discretionary budget is the part we have control over. The rest is mandated by previous committments.

BTW are you really trying to claim that the DoD is sitting on a half trillion dollars that they aren't spending?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 8:41:04 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		What some may call parasites, even if they were gotten rid of today, will just be replaced by more. Why? Because the system that we all support, has created many of them. This goes from those that are temp unemployed due to economic fiascos and fraud, to those that were raised within the system and believe it to be a viable option as a means to live.

So before you can remove what some, if any deem parasites, the system that creates them must first be examined, problems identified, corrected, and measures put in place to prevent them in the future.

The biggest parasites to government money today, is actually large corporations and financial institutions. This trickle down crap is used by Dems and Reps alike, and the people need to get serious about stopping getting piss trickled on them.

So who and what are truly the parasites?



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(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 9:31:06 AM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Discretionary budget is the part we have control over. The rest is mandated by previous committments.


So?  Does that mean mandatory spending doesn't count?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

BTW are you really trying to claim that the DoD is sitting on a half trillion dollars that they aren't spending?


I'm not claiming anything.  I also don't operate under the impression that once the budget has been set that each department gets a big check for the full amount they've been allotted so that they can put it in their own bank account. 

You've seen the figures for both the budget and where the money has been spent.  If you have a problem with what has been reported, I suggest you contact your Senator and Representative.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 9:57:21 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		The first law made in North America by a European appears to have been "Those who would eat the ships stores would do the ships work" (Translation for those in Rio Linda: "Work or starve").

It is a basic violation of the concept of freedom for the government to take from one to give to another.
(This is going to be made plain by the coming exodus of doctors unwilling to subject themselves to further, deeper, government control. But I digress.)



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 10:01:42 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

This is going to be made plain by the coming exodus of doctors unwilling to subject themselves to further, deeper, government control. But I digress.


I have been waiting for the mass exodus for the past ten years or so. And still waiting.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 10:04:15 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		" I have been waiting for the mass exodus for the past ten years or so"

How strange, considering that 0babma0Care is the cause for the exodus most recently highlighted by a new IBN poll.
You won't have to wait much longer unless we kill it really quickly.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 10:10:22 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Tsk tsk. You are behind in your politics as far as medicine goes.

quote:

Jerome C. Arnett, Jr, MD, founder of L.I.F.E. for West Virginians, states that more than 100 physicians are leaving the state each year. Not a single family practice resident trained in the state will agree to stay. The exodus will cause an irreversible deterioration in the quality of care available to West Virginians, he believes.


http://www.aapsonline.org/newsletters/dec90.htm

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 11:11:13 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Discretionary budget is the part we have control over. The rest is mandated by previous committments.


So?  Does that mean mandatory spending doesn't count?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

BTW are you really trying to claim that the DoD is sitting on a half trillion dollars that they aren't spending?


I'm not claiming anything.  I also don't operate under the impression that once the budget has been set that each department gets a big check for the full amount they've been allotted so that they can put it in their own bank account. 

You've seen the figures for both the budget and where the money has been spent.  If you have a problem with what has been reported, I suggest you contact your Senator and Representative.


You're making claims that make no sense. The budgeted money will be spent and at the end of FY 2011 the DoD will have spent roughly 10 times as much of the discretionary budget as HHS.

You can of course look up the FY 2010 numbers and see that for yourself and stop pretending otherwise.

As to why people only discuss the discretionary budget, it is because the rest is prior committments, like servicing the debt, that we cannot change. If you want to talk about cutting "welfare" then at least have the honesty to talk about the real, miniscule, amount we spend on it compared to the rest of government spending.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 3:46:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

discretionary budget for 2010 $1.39 trillion. TANF 17 billion. WIC, CNP, SNAP 95 billion. so even if you count only the discretionary budget it is less that 10 cents on the dollar. That compares to more than 50 cents of every dollar spent on defence.


Good, so we agree, since 10% is far greater than 1%. There are also other programs/departments that are little more than welfare. And of course the comment on defense is a non sequiter wrt to my post.

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 3:57:29 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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Status: offline 		Why's it a non sequitor? If Treasure feels that she's entitled to complain about paying taxes so that parasites can sponge off ther, then others are entitled to find paying taxes that are blown on providing funding for yahoos like Blackwater or for the former veep to try to acquire an oil rich vassal state for the company that employed him in his other job just as offensive.

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 4:44:37 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Why's it a non sequitor? If Treasure feels that she's entitled to complain about paying taxes so that parasites can sponge off ther, then others are entitled to find paying taxes that are blown on providing funding for yahoos like Blackwater or for the former veep to try to acquire an oil rich vassal state for the company that employed him in his other job just as offensive.


Winner winner chicken dinner!


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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 5:33:54 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're making claims that make no sense. The budgeted money will be spent and at the end of FY 2011 the DoD will have spent roughly 10 times as much of the discretionary budget as HHS.

You can of course look up the FY 2010 numbers and see that for yourself and stop pretending otherwise.

As to why people only discuss the discretionary budget, it is because the rest is prior committments, like servicing the debt, that we cannot change. If you want to talk about cutting "welfare" then at least have the honesty to talk about the real, miniscule, amount we spend on it compared to the rest of government spending.


If you have some desire to get into a protracted discussion of the Federal budgeting system and expenditures, kindly start your own thread.  I may consider continuing the line of discussion there.  Otherwise, it is misplaced here and taking the thread far off topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Why's it a non sequitor? If Treasure feels that she's entitled to complain about paying taxes so that parasites can sponge off ther, then others are entitled to find paying taxes that are blown on providing funding for yahoos like Blackwater or for the former veep to try to acquire an oil rich vassal state for the company that employed him in his other job just as offensive.


If you'd like to moan about what is spent in the name of defense, kindly start your own thread. 

This one is ultimately about whether the freedom of choice works both ways with regard to allowing people the opportunity to decide whom they will support, with some discussion of what alternatives there might be to Federal entitlement programs.  I've not seen one single poster complain or say that they weren't more than willing to help provide for those who are truly in need.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 12/11/2010 5:37:42 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 5:53:05 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Well, as you ignored my on topic comments earlier in the thread, why would I bother worrying about a topic the discussion for the last page and half has largely abandoned?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 12/11/2010 5:59:09 PM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 5:58:33 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
It is a basic violation of the concept of freedom for the government to take from one to give to another.
(This is going to be made plain by the coming exodus of doctors unwilling to subject themselves to further, deeper, government control. But I digress.)


Mmm Hmm...This is why there are no doctors working in the military.

It's also why no hospitals are affiliated with state-run colleges.

It's that gummint control, doncha know.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/11/2010 6:17:53 PM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline 		We are apart of a society that does pay taxes and those monies do contribute to those agencies that provide aid to those that need them.
Should we have a choice whether or not to contribute/support such agencies? I don't think that would work, so my answer is no.

What I see happening IF there was a choice is the people that have never been on said assistance wouldn't consider it a priority. Those that had been on or are on assistance may want to contribute but would have very little means to do so.

IMO, the "big fix" isn't having the choice if your money goes to certain agencies. I believe it's about fixing the agencies and how the money is spent. Now THAT is a huge dream and I don't have any answers of how they can fix "it". I do believe money is unnecessarily spent. I do believe people take advantage of the "system". I do believe government is out of control in many aspects of spending and appropriation of spending.

What about agencies/programs that help individuals learn how to be self-sustaining? Helping people to learn how to help themselves. What a concept I do think the so called "parasitic" person *I don't like the term personally* should be accountable.



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happily forever one

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Profile   Post #: 120
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