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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:40:03 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Warning for the faint of heart, this is close to home for me so I'm going to say it like it is. If that hurts your feelings I recommend you go and find some other place to post nonsense like this


Wow... talk about being defensive off the bat.

I warned you. I couldn't give a damn if you're too clueless to get the warning.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The premise is ...


A reasonable, although simplistic statement. Covers the high point. note that it covers the point that this is an individual choice and the fetus is literally parasitical in the biological sense.


And what other sense is there where a fetus isn't parasitic?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This of course is the usual nonsense we get from this delightful couple. Part of what taxes do is pay for the things society needs that individuals cannot pay for directly. That includes support of widows, orphans, the elderly and the disabled. None of which are parasites in the biological sense as the term as used in the first statement.


While the above part that I bolded is a statement of the obvious, is this an admission that you do consider them to be parasites in other senses?

No, I'm saying as the full quote makes clear that the use of parasite in the two paragraphs do not use the same definition of the term even if you accept the validity of the argument. You and yours have spent many months playing semantic games around here and this is a violation of your oft claimed preference for precision in the use of words, or it could be blatant hypocrisy you thought no one would call you on.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A more correct way to view the argument is that "someone who does not wish to pay taxes to suuport society should lose the benefits of being in society, includingthe protection of all laws.

I assume Treasure will not be volunteering to find out how she would fair under that premise.


I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that there should be any consideration given to the ability to opt out of paying taxes all together.  It seems you've made many assumptions.  I can only guess that you believe (as do some others) that conservatives do not think we should pay taxes, at all.  If that is so, then you are wrong.


You're the one arguing that you should be able to opt out of society's support of those who need help. If you aren't part of society you shouldn't get society's protection.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:43:56 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Would it matter how they got to the point of needing government assistance? Do we abort the portion of the government that may have had a direct action causing them to now need government assistance?


On the surface it would make sense to, otherwise, there would always be others forced into needing assistance.  Then again, it would honestly depend upon many other factors.

Do you let the murderer stay out of prison because if he serves his time he won't be able to support his children? 

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:48:31 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

This thread unnerves me. It unnerves me because the sort of people that have such strong views against the unemployed/parasites, are the same sort of people that would of supported Hitlers attempt to rid Germany of all those he considered parasites.
Whilst there are still moderate thinkers, this will never happen.


Goes to get on with that dirty business of earning money


I think you are ascribing much more nefarious motives to people than is warranted.  No one here has suggested letting anyone truly in need go without.  The idea here is not to stop charity, but to give people a choice in whether they wish to give and through what agency (public or private).

If there were no government programs and the attendant taxation to fund them, would you voluntarily donate money to private charities?

(in reply to allthatjaz)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:53:01 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

If we say, for arguments sake, that the premise is correct and adults should be "aborted" from the system what sort of country will you have? I think you only need to look beyond the southern border to see what would result. We would become Mexico rather quickly. If you don't now have a wall around your house with concreted glass shards on the top of the wall along with barbed wire attached you soon will have.......I think I will keep what we have and try to improve on it.


The idea isn't to abort people from the system, but for people to opt out of being forced to support the system.

Do you seriously believe there is no one who would voluntarily continue to pay taxes to support the various welfare programs of the Government?

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:56:55 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I think the people who think that they can decide who is a parasite on society and who isnt should be terminated out of hand
they are the problem not the solution.
OMG see the irony there?


I seriously think you have a misunderstanding of just what "irony" is.

Nevertheless, it is not a matter of any one individual judging who is a parasite and who is not.  And no one (other than you) has even suggested "terminating" anyone.  It is about respecting the rights of individuals to choose who they wish to support and how they wish to provide that support.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 5:58:00 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

I asked this question elsewhere, and never got a response. So i will ask again.

Drs do not stop a spontaneous abortion until the pregnancy is in its 20th week of conception. Are we now labling them murders?


It's an interesting question, Tazzy, but not really relevant to the op.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 6:02:53 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

...I have no trouble supporting those folks that you have mentioned.  I DO have a problem supporting able-bodied men or women for a length of time that is unreasonable. 


Precisely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

No one is stating that all taxes can be...or should be...given up.  What people ARE stating is that the amount of those taxes used to pay for the support of able-bodied, able-minded folks should not be an ongoing thing AND that they should be more readily given as a back-up or help to those who are trying to help themselves.


Exactly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Actually, the government promised to promote the general welfare of society and has been given the obligation to provide protection for all of it's citizens, taxpayers or not.  The government never made the promise to provide a living for the citizens of the country. 


I'm in awe, CD! 

And I couldn't have said it better myself.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 6:05:11 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is the part that bothers me. Not what Treasure is saying... but the fact that the assumption is made that, because people are on welfare, they dont pay taxes. Foodstamp recipients do not pay taxes, granted. Not everyone on welfare gets foodstamps. The rest of the money, taxes are paid. Utilities, clothing, paper and cleaning supplies, ect. They do pay taxes in some form or fashion.


That is quite true, Tazzy.  Doesn't it seem strange that the same institution that provides charity to those truly in need, would turn around and exact taxes from those same needy for utilizing that charity?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 6:21:24 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Ive noticed that many things escape your "understanding", and your need to question someones intelligence or lack of such. how sweet.
No more need to be said, LOL
You knew this"premise" would cause the responses it has. Dont complain or pretend to be puzzled when it does.
Making the assumption that you can decide who and what is deserving of your hard earned dollar only works when you dont live in a society.
Using a murderer as an analogy for people on assistance or needing "charity" made you laughable.




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(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 6:33:01 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive noticed that many things escape your "understanding", and your need to question someones intelligence or lack of such. how sweet.
No more need to be said, LOL
You knew this"premise" would cause the responses it has. Dont complain or pretend to be puzzled when it does.
Making the assumption that you can decide who and what is deserving of your hard earned dollar only works when you dont live in a society.
Using a murderer as an analogy for people on assistance or needing "charity" made you laughable.


I'm not the one who claims to see irony in everything. 

Neither am I complaining or puzzled.  There has been some interesting discussion and most everyone has made perfect sense.  Just because I may not agree does not mean I do not understand or that I am dissatisfied in any way.

As for your assessment, well... it's just another one of those things I disagree with.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 7:22:01 PM   
theGuideGoddess


Posts: 135
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		[/quote]
The Guiddess makes some interesting points, but says a few oddball things, and then a good dose of the old and trite "I know some people that ... " etc. and then regards that personal exposure as applying to all others in a superficially similar situation. "I know a few free loaders therefore all recipients in the country are free loaders." Original, huh ...
[quote\]

Of course it is always best to attack first and define what a few means.  It shows your grace.  But for the record I know thousands of people.  I meet an average of 20 new people every day.  I have been doing what I do for a life time. Still, you have no idea of who I am or what I do.  For all you know I could actually work for DHS.  You have no idea about what type of advice I am paid to give either. 

I believe I mentioned testing and training people to enable productivity.  Clearly you do not have faith that everyone could find that something.  I do.  Call me an odd ball, it's okay.  And as was mentioned, many people could do with less.  It might take innovation, it might take change.....but it COULD happen.  Might not be easy....might not even be successful.  But DAMN!  What if it was?  Impossible things happen all the time.

hmmmm  sounds like edwyn has gotten things all summed up......maybe you could tell us what WOULD work. 


[/Quote]She does like to talk.[Quote\]
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Yup....call me chatty cathey.

Over and OUT!

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 7:42:55 PM   
theGuideGoddess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Do you let the murderer stay out of prison because if he serves his time he won't be able to support his children? 




Nope, all able bodies will labor, long hours of hard work.  They should be helping defray the costs of their incarceration.  In three days is the anniversary of the murder of my dd ......leaving 2 sons and 2 daughters behind.   He should be in prison, but it should not be a comfortable experience, no matter the color of the crime.   I would vote they work 18 hour days six days a week.  Prison should not abdicate an individual (man or woman) of their responsibilities.

Gosh....forgot about that useless turd when I was considering sloth that I knew.....

Children are not parasites to all people, only those who don't want them.  Someone got you though that period in your life, clearly causing you to see what it is you were.

< Message edited by theGuideGoddess -- 12/9/2010 7:45:03 PM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 8:08:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Claiming a fetus is a "parasite" is bullshit to start with. A parasite is defined as not being part of the host organism. The fetus is part of the mother and is no more a parasite than any other non-essential organ.

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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 8:15:05 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Do you let the murderer stay out of prison because if he serves his time he won't be able to support his children? 




Nope, all able bodies will labor, long hours of hard work.  They should be helping defray the costs of their incarceration.  In three days is the anniversary of the murder of my dd ......leaving 2 sons and 2 daughters behind.   He should be in prison, but it should not be a comfortable experience, no matter the color of the crime.   I would vote they work 18 hour days six days a week.  Prison should not abdicate an individual (man or woman) of their responsibilities.


I agree that prisoners should work for their own subsistence and that of any responsibilities left at home.  It isn't always easy and there is a fine line that shouldn't be crossed... prisoners shouldn't be considered "slave labor".  However, there have been and are some successful programs that keep prisoners productive and contributing members of society, even though separated from society.

To clarify... I don't consider children parasites, at all.  It's just a term that I've heard people use to describe the status of a fetus when debating abortion.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 12/9/2010 8:16:08 PM >

(in reply to theGuideGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 8:46:58 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The premise is put forth that an individual who relies on Government support does not have the same rights and protections under the constitution because they are not a self-sustaining entity.  A taxpaying citizen should have the right to decide whether he or she wishes to continue to support an individual who relies on Government support until they are capable of supporting their own life.  The Government shouldn't force a taxpaying citizen to continue to support a parasitic being.

they do have that right.

the only problem is that the kitties were not watching as the mice play.

the mice created a monster that is hungry and needs input and just like in the case of the revolutionary war its taxation without representation.

Just because a body fills an empty chair people think they being represented in their quaint little dog and pony show.


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(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 8:53:38 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess


The Guiddess makes some interesting points, but says a few oddball things, and then a good dose of the old and trite "I know some people that ... " etc. and then regards that personal exposure as applying to all others in a superficially similar situation. "I know a few free loaders therefore all recipients in the country are free loaders." Original, huh ...
[quote\]

Of course it is always best to attack first and define what a few means.  It shows your grace.  But for the record I know thousands of people.  I meet an average of 20 new people every day.  I have been doing what I do for a life time. Still, you have no idea of who I am or what I do.  For all you know I could actually work for DHS.  You have no idea about what type of advice I am paid to give either. 

I believe I mentioned testing and training people to enable productivity.  Clearly you do not have faith that everyone could find that something.  I do.  Call me an odd ball, it's okay.  And as was mentioned, many people could do with less.  It might take innovation, it might take change.....but it COULD happen.  Might not be easy....might not even be successful.  But DAMN!  What if it was?  Impossible things happen all the time.

hmmmm  sounds like edwyn has gotten things all summed up......maybe you could tell us what WOULD work. 


[/Quote]She does like to talk.[Quote\]
Posts: 116
Joined: 11/8/2006

Yup....call me chatty cathey.

Over and OUT!



I did not "attack," unless the playfulness intended in "the Guiddess" be considered as an "attack." Not all appreciate my humor nor perception. Just one of my "101 reasons for having no use for Dommes nor anything to do with BDSM," the very few capable of either humor or perception outside of that world being the increasingly rare exceptions. Your perception of "grace" extends only to those that accept your obviously  self-serving definition as such. I grew up in a world where those who actually earned it were entitled to such.




No worries, your considerations alone will hold in that regard henceforth, theGuideGoddess.

But the non-recognition of reality as regards my well presented and cited explanation of how things work "on the ground" in the world outside your confined purview make no difference as to what I might say, nor what get's passed through congress. Neither of us are call-ins to your show, however much  as we may be in lack of proper guidance in consequence thereby.











< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/9/2010 9:35:58 PM >

(in reply to theGuideGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 8:55:11 PM   
Edwynn


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Status: offline 		  /


< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/9/2010 8:57:30 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 9:20:12 PM   
theGuideGoddess


Posts: 135
Joined: 11/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

I did not "attack," unless the playfulness intended in "the Guiddess" be considered as an "attack." Not all appreciate my humor nor perception. Just one of my "101 reasons for having no use for Dommes nor anything to do with BDSM," the very few capable of either humor or perception outside of that world being the increasingly rare exceptions.

Oh My Gosh!!!  I am so sorry Edwynn!  I completely missed the humor font in your post.  Here again, you are making yet another judgment of someone you don't know.  You are 'good' at that!  I think most of life is worth joking about, in fact, in real life I have been known to joke when none would dare.  As for your perception of me.....or yourself for that matter......I truly could not care less.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 9:30:50 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
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Good news is good news, however it comes about.


So rare.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Adult Abortion... The Right to Choose - 12/9/2010 9:54:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Claiming a fetus is a "parasite" is bullshit to start with. A parasite is defined as not being part of the host organism. The fetus is part of the mother and is no more a parasite than any other non-essential organ.


Medically...

Definition of Parasite

Parasite: An organism that lives in or on and takes its nourishment from another organism. A parasite cannot live independently.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4769

Definition of PARASITE
1: a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2: an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
3: something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite

par·a·site (pr-st)
n.
1. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
2. In conjoined twins, the usually incomplete twin that derives its support from the more nearly normal fetus.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/parasite

Definition

noun, plural: parasites

An organism that obtains nourishment and shelter on another organism.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Parasite

parasite
Type: Term

Pronunciation: par′ă-sīt

Definitions:
1. An organism that lives on or in another and draws its nourishment there from.
2. In the case of a fetal inclusion or conjoined twins, the usually incomplete twin that derives its support from the more nearly normal autosite.


http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=65263

According to all these definitions, a fetus can very well be considered a parasite.

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