RE: Self-identification

RE: Self-identification (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:20:34 PM)
I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian. I suggested a book on the subject. I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist. But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position. Her daughter converted to Judaism. "All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me. It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish. She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot. And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda I'm still very curious to hear just exactly why some people place their religion above their family. I'd really love to know how that breaks down in your thought process, if anyone would care to take a stab at it. I find it increasingly interesting that nobody seems willing - or perhaps able - to explain it. Perhaps it isn't that they are unwilling or unable... like me, they could have very little time. As Firm and I are almost out the door to do some shopping, I'll try to give a little insight into one possible answer. My "faith" is the backbone of who I am. It shapes my thoughts and my actions. Putting that part of me before anything else helps to ensure that everything else in my life gets the best from me. That's a good answer, and it does shed a little light on it for me. It still doesn't get me all the way home, but at least it starts me in what I think is the right direction. I'd like to hear a few more people expand upon it before i draw too many conclusions, but at this point it sounds like we're approaching it from somewhat opposite perspectives. To me, my devotion to family and those I love gives my faith meaning - my love for other human beings is the context that shapes my belief and helps me understand the meaning of it. It sounds as though you're saying that for you, it's the other way around. Maybe I'm not understanding you, but that's where it sounds as though you're coming from.

Jeffff -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:28:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave "I wonder how God feels about a silly little man judging others? " Meditate on it, perhaps. I have. If I believed in God, I would assume he would be greatly offended. All you have to do is read what was written about him. That is something a lot of people miss. Many folks think proclaiming belief and excepting god into your life is enough. Since you are a believer, I would worry less about what I think. I would be concerned with how you will explain yourself to your God.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:32:55 PM)
me family community Many after that, but they tend to swap places quite frequently, depending on how life is going at any given moment. I almost didn't put me first, but, if I don't take care of me first, I won't be much use to family and community.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:34:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Am I the only one that is going to put internet porn in their top three? hahahahaha. I may have to rethink my list to put Starship on it..... hmmmm

rulemylife -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Duty Honor Country Sex, Drugs, Rock&Roll Ian Dury and the Blockheads -

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 12:41:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Tazzy, I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm. I may have misunderstood, but I think he asked her permission and it was granted, to bring up extremes. Does this mean Tazzy dommed Firm? hmmmmm

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:11:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Fast Reply: We can put our "priority of identities" in neat, ranked little boxes, but the danger is that this is a simplification of life, and ourselves, really. I could easily defend any rank ordering. Likewise, I bet that just about any rank ordering can be successfully attacked. I understand truckin's choices, and understand the logic and emotions behind them, and generally I agree with them, but realize that sometimes it's not always so clear cut. Firm I think it is very hard to attack "Parent" as the top ranking due to the biological imperative (if you have kids of course!)

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:13:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL Now you change the parameters. In response to a weasel worded answer.

rulemylife -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian. I suggested a book on the subject. I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist. But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position. Her daughter converted to Judaism. "All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me. It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish. She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot. And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice. Lovely. She is "unthinkingly kind" but, if I'm understanding you correctly, she doesn't see her daughter and grandchildren because they converted to Judaism. How very Christian.

RCdc -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian. I suggested a book on the subject. I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist. But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position. Her daughter converted to Judaism. "All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me. It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish. She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot. And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice. Lovely. She is "unthinkingly kind" but, if I'm understanding you correctly, she doesn't see her daughter and grandchildren because they converted to Judaism. How very Christian. You have automatically assumed it is the christian... it doesn't mean to say that it's the christians choice... it may be her daughters... or it may be the conflict of the two religions and not the people themselves.

tweakabelle -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:38:48 PM)
no one has even mentioned gender yet ......... ........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic.

RCdc -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 1:42:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle no one has even mentioned gender yet ......... ........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic. Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual?

tazzygirl -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 2:12:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Tazzy, I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm. I may have misunderstood, but I think he asked her permission and it was granted, to bring up extremes. Does this mean Tazzy dommed Firm? hmmmmm Whoa whoa. No one dommed anyone. gesh.

tazzygirl -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 2:15:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Tazzy, I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm. I took it him testing what i meant. While, with the last one, he could push the issue and state i would turn my son in, knowing he would be safe and sound if i didnt, would be putting country first, i would disagree again. I dont know anyone who lives in Washington. Probably not know anyone on that plane. I can assure you those lives would not be first in my mind. Someone who would go that far to prove a political, or religious, point, in my mind, is off the deep end and needs help. Even my own child. And there would be my thought process.

tazzygirl -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 2:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL Now you change the parameters. In response to a weasel worded answer. Its amazing that you can read my mind over the internet, willbe. There was no weasling in my response. Just a parents concern for their child rising above god and country. But, believe as you wish. You usually do regardless.

tazzygirl -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 2:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle no one has even mentioned gender yet ......... ........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic. Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual? I actually had a bit of that thought myself. Do women feel differently than men? Would most women put family first, while most men put something different?

truckinslave -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 2:23:20 PM)
Had I thought of it, I would have expected you to be incapable of coming remotely close to comprehending her pain. Right again.

tweakabelle -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 3:21:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RCdc quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle no one has even mentioned gender yet ......... ........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic. Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual? In conventional accounts, a sense of gender identity is said to be developed before an infant masters language ie. before it can have any concept/awareness of religion country class race etc etc. That suggests it's pretty fundamental. This is not my personal view.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Self-identification (12/11/2010 3:35:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL Now you change the parameters. In response to a weasel worded answer. Its amazing that you can read my mind over the internet, willbe. There was no weasling in my response. Just a parents concern for their child rising above god and country. But, believe as you wish. You usually do regardless. No need to read your mind, your words are quite clear. Unless of course, you dont really believe the words you post...and that is possible since so many of them are illogical.

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