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"Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 8:48:47 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		In the Ask a Master forum, in the thread titled “Barefeet” the OP declares that a submissive is 'kept in their place' when forced to go without shoes (and I assume socks as well).

From Wikipedia I found this: A position that is deemed the most important to given individuals is called central, others are peripheral.
If I identify as submissive within my intimate relationships then that is my central identity within those relationships and I do not forget it.

I have often seen the phrase 'keeping him/her in their place' and I have no clue what it means.
What exactly is a sub/slave's 'place' and why do they need reminders? As for that, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their “place”? Why or why not?

< Message edited by catize -- 12/12/2010 8:58:10 AM >

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 8:53:42 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I feel this is absolutely necessary but that it is not restricted to D/s.

My mind wanders.  I wonder if I am doing things properly, if she cares for me, etc.  I need regular contact with my woman to make me feel that things are going well (or if not, to fix things).  This can be a few words in passing, a full deep conversation, snuggle time together watching television, a full out spanking or other session, sex, a quick pinch or feel as we pass - you get the idea.  Some sort of interaction.

If she is carrying out my wishes, that's a good example of her being kept in her place.  And if I'm aware of it, me being kept in mine.


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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:01:48 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		While I am always Master's slave and I know my place as his property, there are times when everyday life can interfere and I can have a tendency at very rare times to take it out on him by trying to take the reigns back or not speaking to him in a respectful tone because I'm angry or upset and not at him in any way...he just  happens to be in the line of fire and usually the first target available.

At those times he just has to give me a nudge to say "hey do you remember who you're talking to???".



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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:07:28 AM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		I don't have a *place* that you could name as central. I'm not submissive, I'm not dominant, I'm just a *me*.

He does have to nudge me here and there to *keep me in my CHOSEN place* because being *owned*, even though it suits me, doesn't come naturally at all.

agirl

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:07:55 AM   
catize


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quote:

If she is carrying out my wishes, that's a good example of her being kept in her place. And if I'm aware of it, me being kept in mine.


Thanks, DarkSteven for your reply. I 'get it' that what we do within our relationships lets us know if it is working or not.. But to do certain things to keep someone 'in their place' seems silly and unnecessary if each partner is abiding by their agreement.

< Message edited by catize -- 12/12/2010 9:13:31 AM >

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:12:45 AM   
catize


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quote:

At those times he just has to give me a nudge to say "hey do you remember who you're talking to???"



LittleWonder, yes, I understand that 'nudge' but as you say, a small lapse does not mean you have forgotten that you are his slave.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:13:56 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

If she is carrying out my wishes, that's a good example of her being kept in her place. And if I'm aware of it, me being kept in mine.


Thanks, DarkSteven for your reply. I 'get it' that what we do within our relationships lets us know if it is working or not.. But to do certain things to keep someone 'in their place' seems silly and unnecessary
if each partner is abiding by their agreement.


Well, yes, IF they are abiding by their agreement. I don't ALL the time.

If HE didn't remind me of that *place* now and then, as required, then I'd just be getting on with things in my own way.

agirl

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:18:20 AM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

In the Ask a Master forum, in the thread titled “Barefeet” the OP declares that a submissive is 'kept in their place' when forced to go without shoes (and I assume, socks as well).
If I identify as submissive within my intimate relationships then that is my central identity within those relationships and I do not forget it.
I have often seen the phrase 'keeping him/her in their place' and I have no clue what it means.
What exactly is a sub/slave's 'place' and why do they need reminders? As for that, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their “place”? Why or why not?


Here's my take on it. It's not hard at all to remember that you are submissive, but it often becomes hard, especially as considerable time passes in a relationship, to feel your submissiveness to your dominant fully. And when that happens, when you forget to feel it, the attitudes and behaviors your dominant likes to see from you may slip a bit. I think those who use reminders of place, like the no shoes/socks rule, are aiming at making that feeling constant. I am not sure how effective it is, even if extreme (some people go without a lot more than shoes and socks!) because people can get used to anything and then its "reminder" features fail, but if a specific vulnerability was reinforced periodically (like having to go outside to the mailbox without shoes, except in freezing conditions or having to expose the soles of your feet every few days for some play), it might still serve to remind you. I don't know if you have experienced this forgetting of feeling submissive or not, but I have. One can get complacent without reminders. And many submissives do not like to feel that complacency. It feels bad, like you are not submissive any more, just kind of blah-vanilla.

Your other question, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their place, is similar to the question, "should dominants/masters be punished when they are bad?" The answer to both questions for me, is "only if the dominant in question deems that necessary and then self-imposes the punishment or reminder." If the person actually is a dominant or master, they should have control enough of themselves to self-monitor/self-maintain in this or other ways. Outside of this, the question doesn't make sense to me in this relationship context. There is an acknowledged uneven power arrangement in these relationships: one person has more control, more power than the other person. Unless you want to morph that relationship into an egalatarian or switching one, it doesn't work if the person with lesser control assumes the responsibilities and privileges of the person with greater control, and "reminding" a dominant of their place certainly fits that scenario of power usurption to me.

Are you actually asking whether a submissive person deserves the "respect" to self-monitor particularly if she is capable of it? Perhaps, if the dominant individual she is with thinks that is a good idea or if there is a hard limit around that area. Otherwise, whether you can self-monitor perfectly or not, if your dominant or master decides that they want to inflict reminders of your submission to them that might be more or less embarassing, uncomfortable, or even insulting to your intelligence and personal sense of commitment, well that is their call (and right), isn't it?




< Message edited by CaringandReal -- 12/12/2010 9:20:36 AM >

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:21:13 AM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

If I identify as submissive within my intimate relationships then that is my central identity within those relationships and I do not forget it.

I have often seen the phrase 'keeping him/her in their place' and I have no clue what it means.
What exactly is a sub/slave's 'place' and why do they need reminders? As for that, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their “place”? Why or why not?


I'm just guessing here because I don't have a single central identity within my intimate relationship with Firm.  I'm assuming that others have several identities, as well, and it may be that a person wishing to put his or her partner "in their place" is simply wanting to remind and reinforce that identity for which they have a preference.

For example, while I am Firm's submissive, I am also his wife, his life partner, his lover, and his confidant.  I could consider my submissive identity as one subordinate to Firm, but the other identities as more of an equal.  If Firm felt that the core of our relationship was my being his submissive and preferred that be my primary role, he could attempt to emphasize that place for me and de-emphasize my other roles.

I think that same kind of emphasis can be made regardless.  I could just as easily encourage Firm to exert his dominant role in our relationship and downplay his other aspects.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:23:27 AM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't have a *place* that you could name as central. I'm not submissive, I'm not dominant, I'm just a *me*.

He does have to nudge me here and there to *keep me in my CHOSEN place* because being *owned*, even though it suits me, doesn't come naturally at all.

agirl


Thanks, Agirl, for your responses. I realize that if you had never met your partner that you would not be submissive. In my case, I decided that submission does suit me, so went looking for dominants. The less egalitarian relationships work better for me.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:44:17 AM   
catize


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quote:

Are you actually asking whether a submissive person deserves the "respect" to self-monitor particularly if she is capable of it? Perhaps, if the dominant individual she is with thinks that is a good idea or if there is a hard limit around that area. Otherwise, whether you can self-monitor perfectly or not, if your dominant or master decides that they want to inflict reminders of your submission to them that might be more or less embarassing, uncomfortable, or even insulting to your intelligence and personal sense of commitment, well that is their call (and right), isn't it?


Thanks, CaringandReal for your response. It was very well thought out I appreciate the time you took to respond. I seldom forget that I am the submissive partner, and I don't necessarily feel it all the time but it is what it is. And yes, I do believe that I am responsible for my actions within those relationships and I do monitor my own behaviors. I have little internal chats with myself to keep myself reminded of what it is I have agreed to do.

quote:

Your other question, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their place, is similar to the question, "should dominants/masters be punished when they are bad?"


Yep, I ask that every time a punishment thread pops up, but have learned to not type it out loud!

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 9:47:56 AM   
catize


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Thanks for your reply, TrasureKY, I appreciate your take on the topic, gives me food for thought!

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 10:17:51 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize


quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't have a *place* that you could name as central. I'm not submissive, I'm not dominant, I'm just a *me*.

He does have to nudge me here and there to *keep me in my CHOSEN place* because being *owned*, even though it suits me, doesn't come naturally at all.

agirl


Thanks, Agirl, for your responses. I realize that if you had never met your partner that you would not be submissive. In my case, I decided that submission does suit me, so went looking for dominants. The less egalitarian relationships work better for me.


I also don't function AS well in egalitarian relationships, but I can't say it's THAT, as much as the guys IN them with me. I still get irritated and frustrated even now, but it's not about aspects that used to make me want to drive over a cliff-top.

I hate being told what to do, and yet I can live quite contentedly with it. I could probably live quite happily with a vanilla bloke if he had the same characteristics. It's not about the D/s as much as it is having someone who's not going to get all mardy because I'm stubborn and strong-willed and who I can hold respect for over a WIDE range of levels.

I've never had a *bad* chap in my life at all. M is just better placed to live with a forthright, strong-willed, stubborn, contrary, impetuous and scatty person. It doesn't bother him greatly, he can deal with it perfectly well.

agirl





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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 10:52:48 AM   
Reform


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My boy and I are switches, and we often switch mid-scene. To me, when I "put him in his place" I'm exerting my control over him and keeping him in the sub/bottom role and not allowing him to switch with me. This could be making sure he's tied and can't escape, that he's busy with a task, or kneeling at my feet. Something to remind him I'm in charge right now, and switching is not an option.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:13:12 AM   
MaxsGirl


Posts: 355
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From: The Arctic Circle
Status: offline 		Alpha and I are still a fairly new couple, so my "place" is pretty well established, but there are ocassionally kinks to work out.  The bottom line, though, is that my place is wherever he says it is.  I make mistakes like anyone else though, and I do need reminders sometimes when I get too strong willed.  Alpha prefers to give me gentle reminders before I misbehave ("the look" is pretty effective on me) rather than having to punish me after I've already done wrong.

I would say that he also needs a reminder of his place now and then, though the reminder is different.  The reminder might be verbal - telling him how much I love and respect him, and how much I appreciate his control over my life.  Or it might come in the form of doing something extra special for him, some service I don't usually get to perform.  Today I reminded him by politely requesting that I be allowed to do more for him while we're out in public.

So yes, I think reminders are good for both parties.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:18:24 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I have often seen the phrase 'keeping him/her in their place' and I have no clue what it means.
What exactly is a sub/slave's 'place' and why do they need reminders? As for that, do the dominants/masters need to be reminded of their “place”? Why or why not?


In the context of the expression "putting someone in their place" to me the "place" is somewhere lower than the person in question thinks they are.... So, with that reading of it in mind, I guess we all need to be reminded once I a while.

When it comes to a D having to show an s type hir place, part of me thinks that if the D has to actively do this then surely there's been some failure in communication?

Thinking more about this, and since I'm typing this on my cell my thinking is faster than my typing, my sub's "place" is a pretty flexible thing : one moment it might be at my feet, the next by my side - in any case I hope she'd know.... Without my having to put her there.



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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:19:14 AM   
catize


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quote:

I hate being told what to do, and yet I can live quite contentedly with it. I could probably live quite happily with a vanilla bloke if he had the same characteristics. It's not about the D/s as much as it is having someone who's not going to get all mardy because I'm stubborn and strong-willed and who I can hold respect for over a WIDE range of levels.


This I can relate to very well, because I was involved with a guy who was dominant without the BDSM. He just knew how to lead and I followed.

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:27:04 AM   
dory007


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Status: offline 		although i always know my place, there are times when the little nudge helps keep me centered in my place. or alternately there are times i am acting out of place - vanilla life, hormones, bitchiness, when a little nudge gets me back in my place. sure if left alone i would re-find my place in my own time, but one of Master's responsibilities is helping me remain peaceful and centered so why should i struggle through a bad place on my own when he is there to help with a little nudge? 

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:28:47 AM   
catize


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quote:

In the context of the expression "putting someone in their place" to me the "place" is somewhere lower than the person in question thinks they are.... So, with that reading of it in mind, I guess we all need to be reminded once in a while.

You are the first to address where that 'place' is, and yes, we all can benefit from being told we are no better than we 'ought' to be. However, as I do not consider submission as 'lower' (understanding that you don't think that either) I believe that is my objection to the idea tht we need reminders.



quote:

When it comes to a D having to show an s type hir place, part of me thinks that if the D has to actively do this then surely there's been some failure in communication?


Thank you, exactly! Or else a failure on the submissive's part to submit? And why would I say I am submissive but not submit?

< Message edited by catize -- 12/12/2010 11:30:23 AM >

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RE: "Place"...what and why? - 12/12/2010 11:39:29 AM   
catize


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quote:

I'm just guessing here because I don't have a single central identity within my intimate relationship with Firm. I'm assuming that others have several identities, as well, and it may be that a person wishing to put his or her partner "in their place" is simply wanting to remind and reinforce that identity for which they have a preference.



Getting back to you because I have been pondering what you said. My question would be, do you have ~a~ central identity or do they all create the whole?

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