RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me.

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OttersSwim -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 9:01:40 AM)
Very early in discussions with my Lady, she asked me about how I approached submission. It was that same question of "how do you want to serve me". I did not answer her at once, but took time to think on it. Below is what I wrote back several days later. I don't know if it was the best answer, or frankly even the "right" answer...but it was something that I actually put thought into - and out of all this, I think that is what is probably most often lacking in responses to that question. I can see feeling quite "put on the spot" if asked this in chat and hadn't really gone beyond the whole fantasy of the experience yet. I wonder if putting a 24 hour "consideration" period on an answer to the question would be a good idea - i.e., "You really think about that and send me an answer tomorrow." Guys are not good at not having answers and may try to "gut it out" and a timeframe for answer would remove that pressure and give them time to actually think on the matter. On 8/31/2008 8:19 AM, wrote: Hello Nikki: Hope your trip this weekend was wonderful in every way. :) I have been doing a LOT of thinking - and a good deal of getting real with myself. I am driving poor XXXXX crazy because it has agitated me to the point of distraction. But it is good and positive analysis of where I am in my life and what I really want - and acknowledging where I have always been. When you approach BDSM from a vanilla life, pretty quickly you find yourself challenging all sorts of barriers that you didn't even know you had and that is what I have done over the past few weeks. They have mostly fallen right away on analysis and I think that an encouraging sign. I wanted to share with you, my thoughts and approach on entering this new world. I wrote this to express how I am feeling about it all: Approaching Submission... Creating Beauty. “I create beautiful things...” I wrote this statement back in the early 80s when describing my art, and it has been a mantra for me in all of the pursuits of my life thus far. That quest for creating beauty has expressed itself in me, as an artist and framer, as a project manager, as an innkeeper, and as a host. I now want that to be my intention going into service to a dominate woman or man. I want to create a beautiful experience for them, and thus, through service and fulfillment of their desires, bring fulfillment to myself. I have been submitting my entire life, I just have not realized it. The creation of beauty is a symbiotic relationship where two people engage and give to the other to share in something beautiful. In art, the initial act is that of the artist who steps outside themselves to create an external expression. The viewer comes in and then completes the creation by viewing and (hopefully) appreciating the creation through exploration and thought about what it is, what it means, and how it impacts the viewer. It is similar when you care for someone – either through hosting them in your home, preparing food for them, providing body work, etc. An act, external to yourself – requiring you to be self aware enough to step outside of yourself to -do- for another – and a reciprocation of receiving your service, or your meal, or your hospitality, or your energy into their body. I have always approached these things I do as gifts that I create for another and I now believe that it was a response to my desire to serve others – to submit. In this act of turning myself over to another, I want to create beauty through submission and service to them. Beauty for them, beauty for me, beauty for the world... I am finding all this to be very transformative - and I haven't even done anything yet! So things are changing inside me, preparing me I think, for this experience. I have no clue where it will lead and doubtless once I actually begin -doing- it, I will find another set of walls and barriers. I hope I am strong enough to surpass them. Have you ever encountered Kirinawa Shibari? I have admired pictures of it for years - it is beautiful and I and have always wanted to experience it. I love the intricate knots and the colorful rope and adore the concept of creating -art- through bondage. It is traditionally done with women, but male bottoms are into it now as well. Here are a few links if you are interested - there is nudity in these, FYI: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u232/Tengal/SABAW/8127903.jpg http://www.shibarilover.com/gallery/shibarial.htm http://www.shibarilover.com/gallery/shibaribb.htm http://www.shibarilover.com/gallery/shibaribd.htm http://www.flickr.com/photos/cortez77_fr/1589305837/ http://markydsade.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/hogtied.jpg Nikki, regardless of whether you and I ever create a relationship of service, I very much appreciate you contacting me, and I hope to make a friendship with you. I am new to this, and you are my only contact thus far, and what I am sharing is...out of necessity, pretty personal - I don't want to make you uncomfortable or make you feel like I am -glomming- on to you. So if this is too much, please let me know and I will happily back off. Be well, Michael (Otter)

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 12:06:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missfrillypants In This Thread: Ladies who've never been to 4chan get trolled by a guy who acts like he comes straight from /r9k/. Plenty of women know that men get the societal short end of the stick having to pursue males. Women got the short end that means they have to get pursued by creepy men who've lost all sense of reason because it's been too long since they have had sex. Just like you get frustrated by getting rejected a lot, we get frustrated by getting creepered a lot. It sucks on both sides, believe me. Seeking any type of relationship is hard work. If you don't want to do it anymore, that's fine. But both women and men need to bitch about how hard it is from time to time. The important thing men seem to forget more than women.... It's not women's fault that you can't get what you want. It happens to even people who didn't do anything wrong from time to time. And men who blame women for their ill luck with women or poor technique... Are even less likely to get what they want from women. This. Though... /r9k/?? It's /b/tard all the way. It does suck on both sides, that's what I've been saying. But commentary like that of the posts I've been disputing does nothing to help that. Just as I tell dudes who are complaining to get off the boards and go meet people, because they have a better option, so too do I tell women to learn how to appreciate the difficulty of approaching online and recalibrate their conversational approach, because it's a far better option. As far as writing better initial letters, I've said in the past that inflammatory emails tend to get a better rate of response from this site, in some instances, which is part of why a lot of men write them. In that same thread I also said that it didn't set things right for a long term relationship so don't bother, even if the short term gain is increased. Those statements, from a completely different thread, got dragged into this one and mangled to shit. Which makes it not worth bothering to be nice to the posters in question, most of whom are coincidentally female, which then made it a battle of the sexes when it wasn't originally intended to be one. Just a battle against fools. I blame the environment for poor luck. A relatively small sample of active participants, scattered across the globe, vastly outweighed by dabblers, scammers and inactive accounts; most men don't stand a chance at getting what they're looking for, and are better off elsewhere. Women who have full inboxes every time they log on have a different strategy, and frankly, though it may suck there's a way to make it not suck, which is what I'm pointing out: actively search for the good elements, encourage them, talk about them, and ignore the nonsense, because there's so much nonsense it's just pointless. I don't blame women for men's poor success. I only blame women for not dealing with their problems differently, instead of the insanity of trying the same approach over and over with increasing frustration.

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 12:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim Guys are not good at not having answers and may try to "gut it out" and a timeframe for answer would remove that pressure and give them time to actually think on the matter. Hm. In some cases this might work, but you'd also be taking the risk of setting yourself up to be disappointed. A time frame can work with you or against you.

LadyPact -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 12:46:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DMFParadox This. Though... /r9k/?? It's /b/tard all the way. It does suck on both sides, that's what I've been saying. But commentary like that of the posts I've been disputing does nothing to help that. Just as I tell dudes who are complaining to get off the boards and go meet people, because they have a better option, so too do I tell women to learn how to appreciate the difficulty of approaching online and recalibrate their conversational approach, because it's a far better option. As far as writing better initial letters, I've said in the past that inflammatory emails tend to get a better response from this site, in some instances, which is why a lot of men write them. In that same thread I also said that it didn't set things right for a long term relationship so don't bother, even if the short term gain is increased. Those statements, from a completely different thread, got dragged into this one and mangled to shit. Which makes it not worth bothering to be nice to the posters in question, most of whom are coincidentally female, which then made it a battle of the sexes when it wasn't originally intended to be one. Just a battle against fools. I blame the environment for poor luck. A relatively small sample of active participants, scattered across the globe, vastly outweighed by dabblers, scammers and inactive accounts; most men don't stand a chance at getting what they're looking for, and are better off elsewhere. Women who have full inboxes every time they log on have a different strategy, and frankly, though it may suck there's a way to make it not suck, which is what I'm pointing out: actively search for the good elements, encourage them, talk about them, and ignore the nonsense, because there's so much nonsense it's just pointless. I don't blame women for men's poor success. I only blame women for not dealing with their problems differently, instead of the insanity of trying the same approach over and over with increasing frustration. While I really think this is straying from the original topic (and I'm going to do it twice) I'll grant you some of this. I'll agree with you on some of the points: Yes, I'm of the firm belief that people of both genders are better going out and meeting people. Yes, part of this is part of the environment. Every person on this site has a history of sending and/or receiving contacts that form their perceptions. Nobody came here thinking that 90% of their email would be crap that they didn't want to receive or that 90% of their initial email wouldn't be answered. What created the environment are the people who set the stage. More often than not, this stems from the "other side" of CM, which you detail. Yes, there absolutely is a way to make it not suck. These options are provided by the site. One is to hide your profile to begin with so that only people from the forums can contact you in the first place. Two is to put something in your profile regarding who you are willing to converse with and if people can't live up to that criteria, block them and report it as spam. It absolutely works wonders! Since this option has been made available, much of the problem has been solved. Here's where I don't agree with you: No, I seriously don't have to care one way or another about how men don't stand a chance of finding what they are looking for here, their poor initial contact attempts, or bending over to kiss somebody's ass for their frustrations. Frankly, when somebody sends Me an initial contact that's screwed up, I tell them so before employing the method that I describe above. When enough people tell them, they'll learn. The lumps that take during that process are really none of My concern. Now, I said I was going to do it twice, so here is that. Exactly how are you seeing that people who you have blocked are making entries on this thread? It was My understanding that, when someone was blocked, you don't see them. Yet, you mentioned that you have Lockit hidden from view, but you knew she posted, even though none of her comments were quoted and not a single entry reads as "in reply to" with her name on it. I'd love to hear how that works.

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 1:52:58 PM)
quote: bending over to kiss somebody's ass for their frustrations. Frankly, when somebody sends Me an initial contact that's screwed up, I tell them so before employing the method that I describe above. There's a difference between kissing ass and finding 'screwed up' where there is none. "When enough people tell them, they'll learn" - sure, but the signals are mixed. There can be no learning with that. I'm seeing situations where the only way to win is simply not to play, because everything a letter sender writes can be screwed up. A quick hello is too substanceless; a long letter like the one Otter posted is tl,dr; jokes are misinterpreted or insulting, lack of joking is bland, nice letters are too nice and mean letters are too mean. If you focus on the wrong, no matter what, you'll find some. quote: Exactly how are you seeing that people who you have blocked are making entries on this thread? It was My understanding that, when someone was blocked, you don't see them. I still see their names, unfortunately, and the time/context tells me enough about their post to draw a few conclusions.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 2:35:03 PM)
quote: Yet, you mentioned that you have Lockit hidden from view, but you knew she posted, even though none of her comments were quoted and not a single entry reads as "in reply to" with her name on it. I'd love to hear how that works. On my computer (Mac) I only see unblocked people posting and blocked people only if others reply to them due to the quotes they put in... Does that help? Like I can still see some screwed up Paradoxes if you quote them...

LadyPact -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 2:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DMFParadox There's a difference between kissing ass and finding 'screwed up' where there is none. "When enough people tell them, they'll learn" - sure, but the signals are mixed. There can be no learning with that. I'm seeing situations where the only way to win is simply not to play, because everything a letter sender writes can be screwed up. A quick hello is too substanceless; a long letter like the one Otter posted is tl,dr; jokes are misinterpreted or insulting, lack of joking is bland, nice letters are too nice and mean letters are too mean. If you focus on the wrong, no matter what, you'll find some. If you're suggesting that there is no classification for screwed up, I'll be happy to forward you some emails. Do you really think I should have to tell a sixty-three year old man that a stranger isn't the person he should be telling his fantasies about an experience with a strap on? While I'll admit that different people will have different preferences, the smart thing to do in this area is to go with the odds. Listen to what the target audience says they respond to (in other words, read the vast information that is already dedicated to the topic) and use it. The chances are higher to get a response with a simple, polite, three to four sentence (one of those being a question based on what the person provided in their profile which is not sexually related) email. Not only have the women on this site been saying this for years, but it was even verified by an outside source (I believe it was a study done by OKCupid) that the method has a higher response rate. Of course, there are the silly things that I shouldn't even have to mention. All of which have to do with listening to what the person has said/written in the profile to begin with. Never expect to be the exception to the rule. If they say no married people and you (general you) are married, pass them by. Significant age difference, same thing. They only want to talk to local people and you're on the other side of the country, don't contact. It saves everybody time. It seems to Me that looking at the situation, if a person is not successful in what they are trying to accomplish, they need to try something else. Meaning, find out why they are failing and change how they are going about things. Seriously, we're on a site that more than adequately provides this information. The fact that people choose not to utilize it is lacking on their part. quote: I still see their names, unfortunately, and the time/context tells me enough about their post to draw a few conclusions. The best you might be seeing would be the name at the top of the thread. I can assure you that, should you ever block Me, the method won't work. My name tends to be at the top of several threads at once because, even though I may not be commenting, I have a bad habit of leaving various windows open.

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 2:59:56 PM)
This is what I see: * IGNORED * - 12/15/2010 2:35:03 PM LadyConstanze This user is on your "hidden" list and the post has been hidden. Edit: It may be I'm using incorrect terms. I haven't paid attention to effect of blocking people on the CM side in regards to their forum posts on this side. Is that what you're referring to? quote: If you're suggesting that there is no classification for screwed up, I'll be happy to forward you some emails. Pass. I get plenty of my own. Also boring, insulting, too short and too long. My point is that it is far better, considering the ratio of good emails to bad ones, to focus on the good ones; talk about those, demonstrate those, etc. Whitelist. If the bad ones were less common, then it would make sense to highlight those instead. Although I may disagree with myself on that last bit, because "right" is a narrow (comparitively) strip surrounded by a gulf of wrong. If you're trying to cross a canyon, do you want to look at the big hole, or at the thing you're trying to step on? The rest of your post is fairly cogent. I've had more success on PoF and OkCupid asking women what they respond to; but something else I found out is that they are unhappy with the number of dates they get off of those sites. One woman - extremely attractive, young, single with no kids, told me she got one(!) date off of PoF in the last year. All of the talk right now is how to properly write a letter. I feel that there's not nearly enough literature out there on how to properly evaluate a letter.

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 3:03:15 PM)
To answer my own question, I'd want to look at the big hole. I should look at the bridge and completely ignore the hole as if it didn't exist, except to note its boundaries. But I imagine most people's brains would tend to focus on the threat, even when it's counterproductive to do so. Still... "Don't look down!"

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 3:27:01 PM)
LadyPact, when I have someone hidden, they still have a truncated post window, that says that they are hidden, so it's a kind of placeholder. Ya troll feeder! [8D]

LadyPact -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 3:51:42 PM)
Since I've never hidden anyone from the boards, I didn't know what it did. I've blocked folks on the other side, but not on the forums themselves. The premise remains though. Since the problem, or stated as such, is that the information isn't available on how to get a response, here it is for anyone who chooses to look at it. That's the way threads work. They aren't just for the people involved in the conversation, but those who choose to research a topic as well. Which, in My opinion has always been the case. The information has been here and all it takes is a simple search to find it. When people hit their heads against a wall trying to drive a nail, rather than use the tools at their disposal, I'm going to tell them it's their own darn fault that they have a headache.

MsMillgrove -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 4:21:42 PM)
For some men, answering the question, "why do you want to serve?" does depend on the Lady... and i agree with the OP's basic thought on it That for some men, the Lady makes the difference, between wanting to serve or not. I base this on three years of consistently meeting males from CM (I can do this because I live in a major metropolitan area where the pool of submissive males is very big--an ocean I guess. lol This obviously isn't possible in a small MIdwest town) There are males I would enjoy having serve me, and others I wouldn't. So the question of "why"--I never bother to ask it. I am assuming that if we click together, he will enjoy serving me, I will like his service. It's not that complicated. What I like about having an initial contact through CM is the knowledge that the person really is looking. I never would have known this if I'd bumped into them at local events. I've said this before--but I've been at the same events with people I didn't even notice were there--and only discover they would be open to an advance because I met them on this site. It is good to get out and be seen locally, because you make friends. You can join a networking site different from CM that allows others to confirm that you show up, volunteer to help now and then. It's a way to confirm that others care about you, that you are a reasonably sane, dependable person. That's handy. A good reputation. Letters from CM males: the best ones often have come from those who are excellent communicators and sometimes incredible Bullshitters. Of the highest calibre .. in other words fantasy types who write about themselves in one way, but in the action--in the real life, they are describing only someone they Wish they could be, not who they really are. Usually, you never will meet them, they are behind the screen and they end up staying behind the screen. Even people who have posted here in "Ask a Mistress" as though they have long experience, good insight--and they sound excellent.. ON PAPER--they have never actually met a soul who is kinky. I know this for a fact, firsthand. There's simply no way to use a written mail as a concrete assesment tool regarding someone's true intention and real time behavior. When you meet in person, yes, then you start to know them, til then--it's just black spots on a white screen. (written in reply to the OP and general thread, not to the person above-LadyPact I have given up on learning howto doing the "reply" properly. lol)

LadyConstanze -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 4:25:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus LadyPact, when I have someone hidden, they still have a truncated post window, that says that they are hidden, so it's a kind of placeholder. Ya troll feeder! [8D] I only see them on the left hand side but I have to actually check because everything else looks normal... Funny, now that I reply to you, and scrolled down to see what it says, I see the replies of one blocked individual, so I scrolled back up, never been into mind altering drugs, so clearly I wouldn't understand...

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 10:12:30 PM)
quote: When people hit their heads against a wall trying to drive a nail, rather than use the tools at their disposal, I'm going to tell them it's their own darn fault that they have a headache. That's pretty much my take on it, though I'm currently addressing the wallbangers on the other side. If some women are bitching up a storm, then... sure, they're not responsible for the actions of those men who irritated them. But they are responsible for their irritation, when it gets out of hand. There's a better way.

DMFParadox -> RE: Tell Me why you want to serve Me. (12/15/2010 10:25:24 PM)
quote: d. quote: ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove For some men, answering the question, "why do you want to serve?" does depend on the Lady... and i agree with the OP's basic thought on it That for some men, the Lady makes the difference, between wanting to serve or not. I base this on three years of consistently meeting males from CM (I can do this because I live in a major metropolitan area where the pool of submissive males is very big--an ocean I guess. lol This obviously isn't possible in a small MIdwest town) There are males I would enjoy having serve me, and others I wouldn't. So the question of "why"--I never bother to ask it. I am assuming that if we click together, he will enjoy serving me, I will like his service. It's not that complicated. What I like about having an initial contact through CM is the knowledge that the person really is looking. I never would have known this if I'd bumped into them at local events. I've said this before--but I've been at the same events with people I didn't even notice were there--and only discover they would be open to an advance because I met them on this site. It is good to get out and be seen locally, because you make friends. You can join a networking site different from CM that allows others to confirm that you show up, volunteer to help now and then. It's a way to confirm that others care about you, that you are a reasonably sane, dependable person. That's handy. A good reputation. Letters from CM males: the best ones often have come from those who are excellent communicators and sometimes incredible Bullshitters. Of the highest calibre .. in other words fantasy types who write about themselves in one way, but in the action--in the real life, they are describing only someone they Wish they could be, not who they really are. Usually, you never will meet them, they are behind the screen and they end up staying behind the screen. Even people who have posted here in "Ask a Mistress" as though they have long experience, good insight--and they sound excellent.. ON PAPER--they have never actually met a soul who is kinky. I know this for a fact, firsthand. There's simply no way to use a written mail as a concrete assesment tool regarding someone's true intention and real time behavior. When you meet in person, yes, then you start to know them, til then--it's just black spots on a white screen. (written in reply to the OP and general thread, not to the person above-LadyPact I have given up on learning howto doing the "reply" properly. lol) This was great. Though you won't get as many comments on it, because many (myself included) tend to respond to things they disagree with. I am trying to improve that ratio.

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