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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 10:30:02 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

That would not be a person I would associate with, much less in such an intimate interaction.  It's really that simple for me.

lovingpet

What if it's something you find out after being with them for a few years like oh you find a KKK ring in their things or Nazi symbol in their stuff.

Depends, people can have a NAZI fetish without necessarily being racist, the NAZI's did have a certain amount of style from a strictly fashion standpoint, KKK might be a little more problematic, but sometimes it's a phase, falling in with the wrong crowd, peer pressure, etc., people do outgrow it, but the only way to know for sure is to ask.

(in reply to SAMHAIN09)
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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 10:32:58 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

I agree with that too. 

I also wonder if people think that anti-Semitism belongs in discussion about racism- because there is plenty of that too. 

I just dump anyone with racist or anti-Semitic (or indeed pro-Zionist) views into a big bucket marked "fuckwit" and have done with it

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 12:01:08 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

I agree with that too. 

I also wonder if people think that anti-Semitism belongs in discussion about racism- because there is plenty of that too. 

I just dump anyone with racist or anti-Semitic (or indeed pro-Zionist) views into a big bucket marked "fuckwit" and have done with it


What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic, yet I have several friends who were born into the Jewish religion (some practising some not) who disagree with the politics of the state... What the hell are they then?

If you look at what Hitler and his cronies did, it simply doesn't make much sense, if you belong (or your ancestors 2 generations back) to a certain religion you are labeled as a race? I mean religion and ethnic roots are just slightly different...

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 12:17:13 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic

If that is the case then the people doing the labelling are morons.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 12:20:02 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic

If that is the case then the people doing the labelling are morons.



I fully agree, yet it seems to be a good tactic to shut people up, nobody wants to be called anti-Semitic so you just use that and people won't argue anymore, personally I consider that bullying tactics that are on par with Nazi tactics, but say it out loud and you are such a terrible racist...

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 12:49:43 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic

If that is the case then the people doing the labelling are morons.



I fully agree, yet it seems to be a good tactic to shut people up, nobody wants to be called anti-Semitic so you just use that and people won't argue anymore, personally I consider that bullying tactics that are on par with Nazi tactics, but say it out loud and you are such a terrible racist...

Again, only if the audience are morons, or are themselves racist ... which is of course possible.

As you say, it's a cheap, bully-boy tactic that no-one with an ounce of integrity would bother with.

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 12:57:40 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic, yet I have several friends who were born into the Jewish religion (some practising some not) who disagree with the politics of the state... What the hell are they then?

The term that tends to get thrown around is 'self-hating Jews'.

I've been called one of those a few times.


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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 1:06:28 PM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09
What if it's something you find out after being with them for a few years like oh you find a KKK ring in their things or Nazi symbol in their stuff.
I'd have to be fairly inattentive, not to notice something is "off" after spending more than 1 day at a time with him.  
If however, I did not realize, but landed on a surprise, I would ask him to explain.   If his explanation included words as follows: "I used to be massively ignorant, because my parents told me a bunch of lies, but my actions now, are largely in promotion of education and peace among the among humanity," I would only than be curious as to why he kept the souvenir, but forgive and pay closer attention to words and deeds.   M

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 1:09:09 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I know it is a cheap bully-boy tactic but it is effective, especially if you shout loud enough...

I find it on par with one of the tactics a martial arts trainer explained years ago: "Girls, if you're ever cornered by a guy and it looks like violence and you don't want a fight, just say really louldy 'So you are still beating your wife?' and the matter is ended, he lost credibility and any attempt to touch you will be thwarted..."

A fair amount of my friends are Jewish on account that their parents or one of them followed the Jewish religion, I have no issue with it, in fact I find it fascinating and a lot of their food laws are incredibly well thought out for the time they were invented, a lot of the laws are so humanitarian that we could take an example from it (cattle being unblemished, not serving a calf in the milk of the mother, not muzzling an animal that is involved in the food production and cheating it out of the fill it would eat, etc.), a lot of other laws make no sense, but I am not a religious person, I can respect the religious feelings of somebody else and do not wish to insult them, the fact that somebody holds those beliefs dear is enough for me to respect them and not mock them, despite being an agnostic.

However, my respect for the actions of the state Israel kind of diminish almost every day on account of their actions, on account of playing the victim card when in fact in a lot of cases they are the aggressors, now that is a state, it has nothing to do with people who happen to follow the Jewish faith. So should anybody feel the need to label me an anti-Semite (and that happens fairly often on account of having spent quite a bit of time in Germany - which is possibly the most pro-Jewish place on the planet, the people are terrified to citicize Israel or they will be called Nazis), I got a slim and well manicured middle finger...

_____________________________

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 1:14:02 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

What I don't get is that if somebody disagrees with the politics of the state Israel, they are labeled anit-Semitic, yet I have several friends who were born into the Jewish religion (some practising some not) who disagree with the politics of the state... What the hell are they then?

The term that tends to get thrown around is 'self-hating Jews'.

I've been called one of those a few times.




I have seen that in the US, you know some of the hard core Reps calling Jewish people who support Obama that, because obviously he's a Muslim (hence the scandal with the Christian church he went to) and the birth certificate must be faked (despite the fact that the governor of Hawaii who is a Republican said it is real...)

Fuck that, as RF said, cheap bully boy tactics, and they only use them because they don't have reasonable arguments

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 1:34:05 PM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
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I dated an African-American who was racist. I honestly had thought that he was just Afrocentric..."down with the struggle" and all that jazz. Until he met my father who is caucasian. The minute he called my dad "the Oppressor" and said that he probably just wanted my mother because she was "just some pretty little black girl that your 'father' thinks he owns", he was gone.

End of story.

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 1:57:19 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Decisions, Decisions, Decisions... those evil choices we are faced with. The game of evil vs. evil as I call it.

You can simply dump their ass if it conflicts too much with your own views. The alternative is work on opening up their mind and talking about it. The other alternative is to put a gag order down about it along with punishment. Another choice is acceptance that they are racist.

One things is for certain, many people that are racist are smart enough to know when to bite their own tongue. At the vary least, they should know and understand this much and have some form of self control or tact.

There are always consequences that occur as the result of things we say or do as human beings.

Also, people are funny... tend to be or not be racist in various ways. Sort of situational deal. They might get along with people of another race if circumstances arise, but otherwise will have nothing to do with people of a certain race. Sort of a live and let live mentality, but clearly are not inviting people of other races into their life on any personal level.

I would never condemn anybody for personal preferences... There's a difference between being racist vs. race selective. Also, nothing wrong with wanting to adhere to your own cultural background and not wanting to adopt others cultural preferences.

Some people dislike Emos, Punks, Goths, Rednecks, Yuppies and etc.. well, you get the idea here. You don't have to love or adopt these people into your life, just show basic human respect. If they disrespect you, it's because they themselves don't have respect for others.

There are some fine lines to all this business. In terms of race itself, I hope understand how the concept of Emo's, Punks, Goths, Rednecks and Yuppies translates into things. Because it's very much a one in the same social issue.

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 7:39:05 PM   
Xiansjade


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/2/2010
Status: offline 		Dump them, move, legally change name, then post their full name, address, and all their personal information on 4chan. Hope for the best. (Worst?) 

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 9:10:16 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		This thread bothers me. It bothers me because so many of the posts seem to exemplify the kind of intolerance that they are supposedly taking a stand against.

But before i get roasted, let make this clear:
i think anyone has the right to decide that racism, or other thing at all, is a hard limit.
i think everyone has a right to decide what they can and can't live with in their lovers, friends, family, etc.
i think that everyone has the right to choose their lovers, friends, etc. based on whatever priorities are important to them.
EVERYONE HAS THESE RIGHTS. OF COURSE THEY DO.

Having said that, it disturbs me when i read comments like:
...that would not be a person i associate with
...i don't waste my time on such individuals
...racists can go fuck themselves
...if anyone i know is racist then that's absolutely disgusting
...i see racist people as uneducated, ignorant fucks
...i would have nothing to do with that person
...fuck racists
...i hate em, i hate em, i hate em

i've known racists. i've known people who were sexist. i've known people who discriminated against old people, against young people, against rich people, against poor people, against people who dressed differently, against people who were a different religion, against smart/dumb people, against fat/skinny people, against pretty/ugly people, against homosexuals, against people with AIDS, against homeless people, against crazy people, against alcoholics, against workoholics...

...of every prejudice known to man, i bet i've known at least on person who had that prejudice...

...and yet i've hardly ever met a single person who i thought had nothing to contribute to society; who i hated so much that i wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole; a person that i thought was disgusting, ignorant, and a waste of time; and who i wanted to tell to go fuck themselves, and then kick them out to the curb.

DO YOU REALLY FEEL THIS WAY?

Because i've never, not ever, met a single person and didn't know that, however much we disagreed, there was still more that we had in common. And that goes for everyone.

Look, i'm sorry to do this. And i understand that everyone has a right to how they feel. But for those of you who said that you just hate racists and you don't even talk to people like that- i will say this: i think you are doing yourselves a disservice. i think you owe it to yourselves to allow yourselves to discover that this person, every person, is more than just the very worst thing about them. i think you owe yourself that much, you owe them that much, even if you never become friends, lovers, or intimate acquaintences.

Peace.
pam






(in reply to Xiansjade)
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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 9:45:03 PM   
anniezz338


Posts: 1183
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Status: offline 		I can agree with that. A hater is a hater.....no matter their hate of choice.

Like the Bible, it is said there is over 600 sins listed. In the hierarchy of sin, which is worse? In whose eyes? I've never gotten a real answer on that one.

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/18/2010 10:20:46 PM   
Demspotis


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		As others have said, if you find that someone owns what appears to be paraphernalia of one or another racist group... ask them about it. It really could be any of several other reasons than adherence to the group in question. There are lots of people who collect things that they do not believe in or agree with. I can give several examples from my own belongings... I have collections of Christian literature, including Jehovah's Witness books spanning the entire history of their existence; and I have a small but growing collection of Jewish literature, yet I am neither Jewish nor Christian. I also own Marx's Capital, although I am not Communist of any stripe.

I can also say that that I have seen that there a lot of Jewish people, and not "self-hating" ones, who collect Nazi material, particularly anti-Jewish propaganda. Their motivation is exactly the opposite of a neo-Nazi who collects such things! Or as as others have said, there are history buffs who collect those things.

As far as "Nazi symbols" go, there you have to be very careful in your assumptions, because the Nazis borrowed a lot of symbolism. The Swastika is a promiment symbol in several major world religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism), as well as in a number of Native American cultures, and others around the world... and more of them in ancient times. I could give a long list of non-Nazi swastikas that I have seen personally. Incidentally, the word "swastika" means "sign of well-being", from the word of blessing "swasti" (in Sanskrit.) The German name for the symbol is "hakenkreuz" meaning broken or crooked cross. The point of this being that someone owning a swastika doesn't necessarily mean that they are Nazis - it may or may not even be from the Nazis at all. And again, there are many other reasons besides agreeing or sympathizing with Nazis that someone might have Nazi materials or insignia in their possession. We should try to find out, and not leap to assumptions.

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/19/2010 12:02:48 AM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SAMHAIN09

I'm just wondering I mean think about if it's a sub you can order them to keep there mouth shut maybe even ball gag them around friends but if it's your Dom or Domina what do you do?


Greetings SAMHAIN9:

Racism can be said to be the manifestation of animosity toward other races or in others words; prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races. A racist tends to base their racism on prejudices and stereotypes related to race and personally held beliefs in racial superiority i.e. the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities and that some races are inherently superior or inferior.

In My Mother Country of Ireland there has been for years a great divide between races and religions. To this day the hatred that undermines any genuine possibility for unity or anything that resembles unified peace is quickly destroyed by the fire of hatred that is fueled by long term racist beliefs, that are based in superiority.

While I deeply love My Mother Country of Ireland I do not hold hatred toward those in the UK that some of My Countrymen do. I understand the reasons behind believing that hatred will insulate in the places that have been ruthlessly damaged by racism and the war of religions. Nonetheless My Gaelic Irish roots have deep honorable meaning to Myself. However, I am not what is considered a racist. Embracing the destructive embers of hatred is necessary to enjoin with the underworld of racism. I refuse to allow such threads of hatred to entwine into My Gaelic Irish heritage nor to conflict with my present day living here in the States.

I cannot imagine not being able to detect racism in another at first meeting or soon thereafter. The inner workings of hatred that drives the whirlwind of racism amidst my Mother Country of Ireland unfortunately is thriving. For most who identify with the ideology of racism it is rather difficult to affect a change in their animosity. It is believed that replacing the conditioning or indoctrinated thoughts related to racism that this process can be instrumental in aiding with dismantling the core issues of hatred that fuels the hellish fires of racism.

The antidote to hatred is Love. A Love that tends to stir revolt prior to affecting a renewed balance. Love for those that hate us because we are perceived to be unlike another due to our heritage or racial background. Love for those places within that were indoctrinated to enjoin with the deceptive pseudo power of hatred. Love that heals the woundedness within where the hatred of racism seared with its consuming fire of bareness. Love that strengthens like a mighty powerful wind within where the enablement of fear forms a complex network of propaganda, which can be dismantled when Love replaces the imagery within, transforming one filament at a time into a unified peaceful perspective, amidst where self made barriers were constructed and aimed toward those who appear different due to race.

I am reminded of what I have learned from Dr. Maya Angelou’s striving to teach humanity as follows:


Human Family

I note the obvious differences
in the human family.
Some of us are serious,
some thrive on comedy.

Some declare their lives are lived
as true profundity,
and others claim they really live
the real reality.

The variety of our skin tones
can confuse, bemuse, delight,
brown and pink and beige and purple,
tan and blue and white.

I've sailed upon the seven seas
and stopped in every land.
I've seen the wonders of the world,
not yet one common man.

I know ten thousand women
called Jane and Mary Jane,
but I've not seen any two
who really were the same.

Mirror twins are different
although their features jibe,
and lovers think quite different thoughts
while lying side by side.

We love and lose in China,
we weep on England's moors,
and laugh and moan in Guinea,
and thrive on Spanish shores.

We seek success in Finland,
are born and die in Maine.
In minor ways we differ,
in major we're the same.

I note the obvious differences
between each sort and type,
but we are more alike, my friends
than we are unalike.

We are more alike, my friends,
than we are unalike.

We are more alike, my friends,
than we are unalike.

Written by Dr. Maya Angelou

< Message edited by Zevar -- 12/19/2010 12:10:55 AM >

(in reply to SAMHAIN09)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/19/2010 1:00:58 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

This thread bothers me. It bothers me because so many of the posts seem to exemplify the kind of intolerance that they are supposedly taking a stand against.

But before i get roasted, let make this clear:
i think anyone has the right to decide that racism, or other thing at all, is a hard limit.
i think everyone has a right to decide what they can and can't live with in their lovers, friends, family, etc.
i think that everyone has the right to choose their lovers, friends, etc. based on whatever priorities are important to them.
EVERYONE HAS THESE RIGHTS. OF COURSE THEY DO.

Having said that, it disturbs me when i read comments like:
...that would not be a person i associate with
...i don't waste my time on such individuals
...racists can go fuck themselves
...if anyone i know is racist then that's absolutely disgusting
...i see racist people as uneducated, ignorant fucks
...i would have nothing to do with that person
...fuck racists
...i hate em, i hate em, i hate em

i've known racists. i've known people who were sexist. i've known people who discriminated against old people, against young people, against rich people, against poor people, against people who dressed differently, against people who were a different religion, against smart/dumb people, against fat/skinny people, against pretty/ugly people, against homosexuals, against people with AIDS, against homeless people, against crazy people, against alcoholics, against workoholics...

...of every prejudice known to man, i bet i've known at least on person who had that prejudice...

...and yet i've hardly ever met a single person who i thought had nothing to contribute to society; who i hated so much that i wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole; a person that i thought was disgusting, ignorant, and a waste of time; and who i wanted to tell to go fuck themselves, and then kick them out to the curb.

DO YOU REALLY FEEL THIS WAY?

Because i've never, not ever, met a single person and didn't know that, however much we disagreed, there was still more that we had in common. And that goes for everyone.

Look, i'm sorry to do this. And i understand that everyone has a right to how they feel. But for those of you who said that you just hate racists and you don't even talk to people like that- i will say this: i think you are doing yourselves a disservice. i think you owe it to yourselves to allow yourselves to discover that this person, every person, is more than just the very worst thing about them. i think you owe yourself that much, you owe them that much, even if you never become friends, lovers, or intimate acquaintences.

Peace.
pam



THIS IS YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION:

quote:

I'm just wondering I mean think about if it's a sub ...(or)...your Dom or Domina what do you do?


You asked what we personally would do.  I would not be involved with someone like that.  Why?  Because there is enough hatred in the world that I don't need to bring it deliberately into my life. 

You also brought up a very emotional topic.  People have emotions around controversy.  Did you seriously think people wouldn't respond accordingly?

The only people I tolerate in my life who would be racist (and other things) are people who have been around for a longgggggggg time in my life (like grandparents) but who are generally good people.  Even people who were historically "racist" as part of the culture aren't necessarily racist.  In So. America, people call each other Negrito but there is no malice or heat behind it.  They also call people Chino and Gordito - again no malice or heat, just descriptive.  THAT is not racism. 

Look, people have a right to live and believe what they want to.  I also don't like to invite ugliness into my life.  I'm totally ok with not wanting racists in my life. 

I'll tell you - here there is HUGE amounts of racism in my world.  And you know what I do?  I educate people.  I teach them about other cultures, and then if they maintain their racism, I don't have to be their friend.  Sorry, pam, but I don't want that in my life.  As the captain of MY Good Ship Sunshine, I have every right to ask that plague-ridden rats stay off my ship.  They'll harm me in the end.  No thank you.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/19/2010 2:08:41 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum
I dated an African-American who was racist. I honestly had thought that he was just Afrocentric..."down with the struggle" and all that jazz. Until he met my father who is caucasian. The minute he called my dad "the Oppressor" and said that he probably just wanted my mother because she was "just some pretty little black girl that your 'father' thinks he owns", he was gone.

Ye gods. How staggeringly crass and insensitive of him.

As well as pretty dense; I mean, what did he think you were going to do when he started mouthing off about your family?

He sounds like the sort of people I normally refer to as "balanced personalities; a chip on each shoulder"

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RE: What do you do when you have a sub or dom thats rac... - 12/19/2010 3:47:03 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Having said that, it disturbs me when i read comments like:
...that would not be a person i associate with


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this one point. You say in an earlier portion of this section:

quote:

i think everyone has a right to decide what they can and can't live with in their lovers, friends, family, etc.
i think that everyone has the right to choose their lovers, friends, etc. based on whatever priorities are important to them.


... then you turn around and say that a person who makes the statement that a person who expresses racial, gender, or religious bigotry is not someone that they'd want to associate with is a -hater-. I'm sorry... I disagree with that profoundly. Call me a hater if you will, but frankly, I see absolutely nothing wrong with saying "A person like that is not someone that I would have among my associates." or "A person who can say things like that is not someone that I would spend time with." That is a simple, honest, and IMO, very civilly phrased way of stating one's boundaries in such an area.

While I get your point, I think that in calling people who express ANY opinion on this issue that isn't either wishy-washy or neutral on the topic of bigotry "haters", you diffuse your message to the point of being ineffectual. If a person cannot say "I will not associate with someone who behaves that way", how else is someone supposed to make it clear, not only to the individual involved, but to all of those to whom xhe relates, that a certain behavior is unacceptable? Just sit on our hands and say -nothing-? I believe that we MUST speak up about the things we see that are unacceptable.

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up. (Pastor Martin Niemoller)



< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/19/2010 3:49:50 AM >

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to gungadin09)
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