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RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/21/2010 8:13:28 PM

purepleasure

Posts: 6941
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

if she likes hiding dirty dishes, empty pizza boxes and other food related items in her den of doom, make it simple... no food in the bedroom until she cleans everything, including dusting, vacuming, and whatever laundry needs attention.

_____________________________

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Your stupidity does not impress me.

blame it on your hormones!!! - beerbug aka ydd

(in reply to ShaharThorne)

Post #: 61

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/21/2010 9:15:33 PM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The above was suggested as the situation already seems more than out of control.

Generally, from what I've seen tough love has already been tried at this point. Frustration mounts as the same issues crop up over and over. For some things, such as temper tantrums and truculence, it fits; for 'laziness' and disorganization, the fix is activity and organization... and company. Cook together, talk together, clean together. That's how they learn; not by fiat. Sometimes it's not always possible to be there for kids, but this is a sign one should try.

If threats and punishment are the only things associated with cleanliness, it becomes the enemy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
It isn't necessarily something that should have to be a constant. It's the kick off for changing the behavior. The idea is to teach them after you get past this particular experience that you won't permit the mess to get to the same state.

And that's all you teach them: that you'll get angry and punish them by throwing their stuff away. Gaining grudging compliance at best, and too much of that makes for no authority at all; immunities are built, no matter how severe the consequences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
My kids were raised knowing two things. The first was that I was the person that was in charge of the household and any chore in the house would be done to My standard. The other was that in My job as parent didn't include Me being their friend. I saw it very much as goal oriented to raising human beings that would be ready for the world when they became adults.

Your kids learned a lot more than that; that's not empty flattery, it's just common sense. You taught them more simply by the way you handled your own chores.

I've never felt the need to tell any kid that I am or am not their friend. It's not even an issue. When I was a kid, any person that took that approach with me earned my instant disdain. There were a few; they either learned to back off and approach me with respect, or they'd find one fucking nightmare hellion on their hands, and one that often had a better vocabulary at 10 than they had at 30. I was putty in the hands of adults that were respectful, though, so teachers and scoutmasters compared notes and quickly figured out what worked.

I've spent the past year with a mother of two as a housemate, and I still frequently visit. Her eldest is so much like I was it's scary. But his behavior has noticeably improved since I've been spending time with him; I speak to him as I would an adult (sans profanity), enforce my boundaries as I would with another adult man, and discuss chores, tasks and homework in terms of problem solving; solving things with him. When he first came, he would do all kinds of tricky dicky shit. Now I never have a problem getting him to do what I ask, because he knows I put some thought into it and I both demand respect and offer it. And take my attention away if he pushes too far.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The problem that a lot of people have with parenting is that children recognize when there is a pattern of empty threats.

I never had this confusion - no threat of my mom's was empty. That's all I'll say about that. Didn't work; she was so concerned about her authority and my obedience that she missed the fact that I often didn't know how to focus on the chore. To be fair, me being precocious didn't help her with that; it may have often seemed like I should have known, and I was just being lazy or selfish.

I'm trying hard to be neutrally toned here about her, because she did her best and it's rude to speak ill of the dead, but your words remind me a lot of her approach. On paper it was the same: she said more than once that she wasn't my friend, she was my mother, and she went to endless lengths to convince me she knew better than I did, and her standards were more valid than my logic. From all that, I just learned that she was certainly not my friend.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 62

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/21/2010 9:33:45 PM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

one aspect this thread reminds me about is that my granny used to tell me some years ago, that she told mum that my brother and i wouldnt learn to be tidy when she cleans up after us as young kids...and who was it who carried regular downstairs my brothers and my empty water bottles

that same granny

whilst my flat is currently tidy (apart from my kitchen with my damn blocked sink) my ex demands it to be spotless when he visits me soon...and i have to say with him that means pressure is on, doesnt matter that he is my ex

...as his maisonette is always spotless

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(in reply to ShaharThorne)

Post #: 63

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 4:51:20 AM

ShaharThorne

Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline

I need to learn patience. If I keep bugging her, nothing gets done.

Time to wake up anyway.

Binx is trying to give me the evil eye...she wants more loving...

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(in reply to Phoenixpower)

Post #: 64

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 5:41:26 AM

calamitysandra

Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

there's also a saying called pick your battles. If the rooms not causing health issues, and apparently it is, so situation changes, then if they want to have a shithole room, I still say let them. Personally a 15 y/o having sex would be a bigger battle worth picking then them living in filth, and your term"it's called being a parent" should be applied to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

Tell her to keep her door closed stop going in there or doing anything like putting her clothing away if you do, and let her keep her room trashed. If the mess doesn't affect the rest of the house why cause yourself stress.

It is this darned thing called parenting.

I know a lot about, and believe in, picking my battles when it comes to my kids.

However, looking at this thread, and others that mentioned the interactions between Sharhar and her daughter, it seems like a vicious circle in which the daughter always ends up calling the shots, and that is dangerous.
She has demanded that the room gets cleaned, now she has to though it out, be it only to start establishing that she is the mother and in charge.

It is called picking your battles, not fighting none at all. That is called surrendering.

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(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

Post #: 65

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:09:40 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

ST is not the parent in residence she only visits for a few days every three weeks or so. The parent in residence is the one who should be teaching these skills and being consistent. And he isn't. He also won't agree to have the daughter be tested and treated for her mood disorders. So Lizard hasn't learned because her father hasn't taught her and hassled her daily to bring back the dishes and food scraps. She can't learn in a couple of days because her untreated mood disorders cause her to take a longer than normal time to learn new skills. And ST is not in a place in her life where she could fight for custody, plus at 16 the court would let the child decide which parent she wanted to live with unless abuse is involved.

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Post #: 66

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:21:20 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

You know maybe it would be better if people stop trying to LABEL the kid with disorders and simply call it what it appears also, she is a spoiled brat who knows she runs the show in that house, she knows her mother is intimidated by her and all she has to do is get mad and mom backs off because mom doesn't want to deal with it and dad simply doesn't care.

You know i think a HUGE problem in this new generation is people keep trying to make excuses for them and labeling them with all kinds of disorders that are additional excuses of why they do what they do. Oh the kid misbehaves instead of being parents or teachers lets just slap an illness on them so people can just leave them alone.

Based on what Shahar says about her daugher and there is a lot to go on, her daughter lacks parenting period. Shahar admits she is a wimp when it comes to her daughter and Shahar has her own problems to deal with as well as she is only there a couple days every couple weeks. She also says that Bo doesn't do shit when it comes to their daughter.

So to me, this kid doesn't need to be labeled with a damn MOOD DISORDER but instead maybe she is just angry because subconsciously she wants the boundries and guidance because without it how the hell is the kid supposed to feel safe. Maybe if her parents DID set boundries and such and enforce them starting years ago, the kid would recognize same instead of trying to control THEM because she knows she can.

Sorry Shahar but i really doubt your kid as a mood disorder and it irritates me you and others want to label her as such, she just knows how to control you and her dad because YOU BOTH allow it. And instead of owning up to the fact you both have no control over your kid, you want to make it HER FAULT and make excuses saying oh she has a disorder.

Some kids have illnesses - i stress SOME. When parents fail to parent and it goes on for years and they are then faced with a teenaged product of their failing to parent, it doesn't mean the kid's mental status is the problem.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/22/2010 6:23:47 AM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 67

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:25:56 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Except that isn't true. ST has a diagnosed mood disorder. The school has identified this child as having problems but is stymied by the father refusing to permit the school to have her tested. The father, who is the legal guardian, has piss poor parenting skills. ST due to her own medical condition lives elsewhere, in a county with better medical services where she can get the help she needs. Due to her own medical issues, she cannot sue for custody.

Your comments are stupid and hurtful to ST. You would blame a person without legs for not walking. You ought to be ashamed of yourself and I am tired of constantly reading you putting other people down.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 68

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:30:45 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Why not take her to Disneyland?

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 69

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:33:56 AM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

At least she is taking 'care' of herself. There was a time where she thought she was pregnant, but it was her cycle starting late. Her BF takes her to Planned Parent where she gets the shot (she has the same disorder I had when I was a teenager. At least she don't have to suffer now).

Now..to see if she can down to Dollar General and get us the right razor for shaving. Both of us LOATHE single blades.

She is old enough to be having sex, getting her own self down to family planning, and she can't clean her room? Seriously Shahar, wtf?! When I was 15 I was going to school, and had a job working 30 hours a week so I could buy a car. If I told my parents I wouldn't clean my room, lol...yeah no chance of that happening. My mother makes Martha Stewart look like a slob.

Mood disorder or not, a young woman having sex is certainly old enough to clean her room. Ground her ass, no going out, no boyfriend no phone, until she realizes that being a slovenly mess is not allowed behavior.

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(in reply to ShaharThorne)

Post #: 70

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:36:27 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Except that isn't true. ST has a diagnosed mood disorder. The school has identified this child as having problems but is stymied by the father refusing to permit the school to have her tested. The father, who is the legal guardian, has piss poor parenting skills. ST due to her own medical condition lives elsewhere, in a county with better medical services where she can get the help she needs. Due to her own medical issues, she cannot sue for custody.

Your comments are stupid and hurtful to ST. You would blame a person without legs for not walking. You ought to be ashamed of yourself and I am tired of constantly reading you putting other people down.

This. Barely, you need to really get a grip and think before you type.

To ST, see if you can make it a project yall do together. She may find things she had forgotten that she had. Just make sure to enjoy the time you do have with her. Teens are pigs most of the time, and most of the time they grow out of it.

Good luck.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 71

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:40:47 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Why should i be ashamed of myself, because in all of her posts about Lizard she posts how the girl has no structure, she has no boundries, and she has pretty much no parenting?   Did it ever occur to YOU that maybe all of that is the reason the girl is out of control instead of wanting to label the kid with a DISORDER.

Schools nowadays are famous for wanting to label kids and put them on drugs for all these disorders. And yes, SOME kids have them but the fact of the matter is, kids need structure and boundries within the family. When they DON'T get it, many times they do become uncontrollable because you have a kid trying to decide what being in control IS. Shahar has mentioned many times they don't have control over their kid so all i did was recap what she has said MANY times on these boards.

So no, i don't feel ashamed. I think YOU should feel ashamed wanting to label a kid with a disorder that very well may be the kid simply lacks the parental discipline, structure and boundries A KID NEEDS to feel safe.

The point i am making is, until all of that is put in place to see if maybe THAT is the issue and the kid's mental status isn't the cause of how she is acting, i don't think she should be labeled as a mental disorder when she hasn't been tested.   I do think all aspects of her life need to be taken into consideration and focus put on the PARENTING.

I mean hell DESfip as always you are all gungho to label a kid with a mental disorder and you say i am being hurtful and stupid because i point out the parenting??/ Seriously?    To me the parents are the adults their actions are MORE important than the kids. So i think their actions need to be addressed before i start labeling a kid with a mental disorder that may simply be she doesn't feel safe, she is angry because she is trying to determine how to control her life because she doesn't feel anyone else who has experience in such things is.

There is A LOT more in this family than the kids moods that could be contributing.   I am sorry if you don't like my looking at the PARENTS when you are so eager to give the kid a mood disorder and believe THAT is the cause of everything. I am sorry if Shahar didn't like my recap of everything she has said about the kid and how she lives etc. It wasn't meant to hurt it was to me important to make a distinction of what MAY be causing the kid acting out -- because she has been conditioned to KNOW how to get away with what she wants by her parents. She isn't a stupid kid. Maybe Shahar can't do much about it, but then maybe she shouldn't be saying the kid has a mental condition and making excuses based on the kid instead of a major part of it being the parenting of that kid.

I am sick of your running around these boards making everything a mental issue. So i guess we are both pretty sick of each other.

I really don't get the eagerness of trying to label this kid with a disorder when evidence of parental neglect in parenting has been stated over and over again on these boards.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/22/2010 6:47:40 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 72

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 6:49:25 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

Angel,

You know no more about the situation than anyone else on here. We know what has been stated on the boards. This makes your conclusions no more valid than anyone elses. Only ST knows for sure.

The fact that you get so offensive and CAP words that SEEM important to you and CLAIM to be the know all intelligent person who can tell EVERYONE the proper thing to do, to me, it screams insecurity.

Constantly repeating and using caps does not make you wiser. You do not have superior powers of deduction that allow you to know the one twue way about any and everything. Why can you not accept that folks have differing opinions and they are all valid, rather than think you have to keep pounding yours to death to show it is RIGHT?

And yes. I even called you angel, as you wish to be called. I hope that will get you to really read what I have typed. If not, I tried.

Merry Christmas

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 73

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 7:05:03 AM

calamitysandra

Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

ST is not the parent in residence she only visits for a few days every three weeks or so. The parent in residence is the one who should be teaching these skills and being consistent. And he isn't. He also won't agree to have the daughter be tested and treated for her mood disorders. So Lizard hasn't learned because her father hasn't taught her and hassled her daily to bring back the dishes and food scraps. She can't learn in a couple of days because her untreated mood disorders cause her to take a longer than normal time to learn new skills. And ST is not in a place in her life where she could fight for custody, plus at 16 the court would let the child decide which parent she wanted to live with unless abuse is involved.

All this is true, I know. However, would it not be necessary, especially in light of this, for Sharhar to "Mom up" and to provide a stable and firm guidance during the time she is there? Maybe even come to a point where her role as mother in this relationship is strong enough that she can provide this framework, up to a point, even in a long distance relationship?

While there are things that she has no influence on, there are also a lot of things she can change. Mainly her interactions with her daughter.
How about your suggestion of sitting with Lizard and talking her through it? I think this is a great way to help and teach the child, and an much better option than giving up.

I never said it was easy, but it seems to be about high time that something happens.

_____________________________

"Whenever people are laughing, they are generally not killing one another"
Alan Alda

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 74

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 7:05:59 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

JstAnotherSub, thank you for calling me angel, i hope you realize yourself that when you call me barely you are simply being bitchy rather than discussing which is ironic since you are lecturing me on how to post.  Your use of angel is appreciated, my nickname is very special to me as the person who gave it to me was killed by a drunk driver right in front of me and angel is what i am called offline by many of my friends.

I don't know what you have TRIED other than to indicate you somehow are the ummm model poster who should be emulated?   Seriously, your posts are mostly sarcastic and you many times post simply to bitch at someone because you don't like what they are doing. And i am not talking about ME. You do it all over the boards, i simply don't waste my time trying to point your own negative style of posting. So i find it ironic you seriously think you are a person to lecture ME on how i post.

I DO know what DESFip is saying, i just don't agree that my focusing and saying what i have is any different from what many others have said on this thread.  Are my words hurtful -- maybe, but to me, it hurts watching people even her own mother just give up on her because she may have some mood disorder, it bugs me because to me the parenting could be a BIG issue on why the girl is like she is. To me, perhaps if the parenting changes, even if she has some mood disorder, the environment within which she lives would help more than determine to label her with some illness or disorder. I mean if she DOES have a mood disorder and Shahar believes she does, doesn't parenting have a HUGE bearing on how the child deals with it?   What would an actual diagnosis do differently -- put her on drugs for it?   She still wouldn't have the parenting aspect that to me is MORE important than the drugs, the structure, boundries and discipline to help her cope.

I am looking at it a different way and yes i am blaming the parents for a big part of it.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/22/2010 7:14:20 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 75

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 7:22:36 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

I am down to giving Lizard some money to getting her room clean because I cannot see the floor (I admit that I am a slob, but this is ridiculous). My problem is only a few shoes while her room is drawers open, everything on the floor, dishes and so forth.

Am I allow to pull my hair on this (I prefer someone else to pull my hair, but that is for play...)

Tell her if she doesn't get her act together then you'll take some of her stuff to the dump each week till she gets the picture that you mean business. I would have suggested burning it in a barrel for her to see in dramatic fashion but with the fire codes ya know.

My exes kid didn't dig me a whole lot but he sure did know I meant business when I told him to do something.

Ground rules and boundaries start when they are young.

The old "I want to be her friend" doesn't always go over with every child..some need actual discipline.

_____________________________

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(in reply to ShaharThorne)

Post #: 76

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 7:23:03 AM

ShaharThorne

Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline

The legal age for choosing which parent the child wants to live with is 12 in Texas. I can get her into an exemplary school here where my nephew attends at. I refrained from being a full time parent because I was trying to find the perfect situation and medicine to help control the bipolar disorder.

I am still going through a battery of tests to see why I am falling down. The doctors have found a weak valve in my heart, but it is not a problem. On the 3rd, I am doing an in-house study at St Francis in Tyler. I still make my appts for MHMR and my meds are not costing me too much due to Medicare D.

Right now, she is asleep from getting her room half way decent...I can see the floor and all the dirty clothes are in a hamper. Her father and I are planning to have clothes all washed up on Christmas Eve. When she wakes up, I have her take the trash to the can and the recyclables to the other can.

I still want to get the Greek monster to help out...this monster puts Shiva to shame...

Got to fix a snack table and the living room looking half way decent...Have I told anyone that this family is very musical. 3 guitars, keyboard, viola...so one of the instruments is always being played.

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 77

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 7:33:40 AM

ShaharThorne

Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Barely, you need to really get a grip and think before you type.

To ST, see if you can make it a project yall do together. She may find things she had forgotten that she had. Just make sure to enjoy the time you do have with her. Teens are pigs most of the time, and most of the time they grow out of it.

Good luck.

She wants to learn to crochet and we both love Japanese anime. I have to miss the con coming up next weekend but I am making plans for Akon in June (Dallas). As for the crocheting, I honestly don't know where the kit is probably in front of the bookshelf.

Well, I got to finish up this commission before Christmas Eve. As long as no one disturbs me, I can get it knocked out tonight.

BTW, I call her room the Abyss after one of my favorite movies...

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 78

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 10:50:11 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

JstAnotherSub, thank you for calling me angel, i hope you realize yourself that when you call me barely you are simply being bitchy rather than discussing which is ironic since you are lecturing me on how to post.  Your use of angel is appreciated, my nickname is very special to me as the person who gave it to me was killed by a drunk driver right in front of me and angel is what i am called offline by many of my friends.

I don't know what you have TRIED other than to indicate you somehow are the ummm model poster who should be emulated?   Seriously, your posts are mostly sarcastic and you many times post simply to bitch at someone because you don't like what they are doing. And i am not talking about ME. You do it all over the boards, i simply don't waste my time trying to point your own negative style of posting. So i find it ironic you seriously think you are a person to lecture ME on how i post.

I DO know what DESFip is saying, i just don't agree that my focusing and saying what i have is any different from what many others have said on this thread.  Are my words hurtful -- maybe, but to me, it hurts watching people even her own mother just give up on her because she may have some mood disorder, it bugs me because to me the parenting could be a BIG issue on why the girl is like she is. To me, perhaps if the parenting changes, even if she has some mood disorder, the environment within which she lives would help more than determine to label her with some illness or disorder. I mean if she DOES have a mood disorder and Shahar believes she does, doesn't parenting have a HUGE bearing on how the child deals with it?   What would an actual diagnosis do differently -- put her on drugs for it?   She still wouldn't have the parenting aspect that to me is MORE important than the drugs, the structure, boundries and discipline to help her cope.

I am looking at it a different way and yes i am blaming the parents for a big part of it.

angel

Well, all righty then. Again, Merry Christmas.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 79

RE: ARGH!!! Not again! - 12/22/2010 12:01:03 PM

ShaharThorne

Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline

Just received a package from my mom in the mail. Lizard was not waking up until I yell out *PRESENTS*. I never seen a kid move that fast.

She just pick up Little Bit, the dog so she can sleep with her (usually the dog sleeps with me or Bo).

I will give her a few hours sleep. There are nothing set in concrete during the holidays (except feeding the animals and watching reruns from DVDs each night.

_____________________________

Goddess of Yarn

You are making two and a half feet of irresistible, tubular sex! -Lola, Kinky Boots

Founder: Bitch with Tits

Whip me, beat me, make me feel cheap and have great sex

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 80

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