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Why do Parents tell their children fictional characters... - 12/26/2010 12:06:20 AM   
LoveSparkie


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Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Take Santa Claus for example, every other parent tells their children that this fictional character is real.
I mean to pass no judgment, but it seems wrong to me to lie to your children by telling them a fictional character is real.

My parents told me from the start that it was fantasy and "play pretend", they NEVER lead me to believe he was actually real. They let me know the story of St. Nick and how the legend of Santa Claus came about.
I don't feel I missed out at all. I'm thankful they told me the truth from the start. When other children my age where growing older and being a bit heartbroken after finding out the truth...I already knew.

I get a lot of crap about this from other parents, but I've already made up my mind to tell my children the TRUE story of St. Nick, just as my parents did. I prefer my children to know FACTS, history, and fill their heads with actual KNOWLEDGE. I will encourage imagination of course, but will NOT ever lead them to believe that a fantasy is indeed reality.

I know there are other parents on this site, input on this? BTW: This doesn't just include Santa Claus, I mean anything that parents lead their children to believe is real or true when it is not. How is this right?

_____________________________

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:09:23 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		I am not a parent.. but I am grateful to my family for the Santa stories..

it allowed me to hang on to the child-like wonder for a while.    The same child like wonder I wish I still had.

there is more I wuold LIKE to say, but I cannot articulate it well, so I'll stop now...

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:14:38 AM   
LoveSparkie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I am not a parent.. but I am grateful to my family for the Santa stories..

it allowed me to hang on to the child-like wonder for a while.    The same child like wonder I wish I still had.

there is more I wuold LIKE to say, but I cannot articulate it well, so I'll stop now...



I see your point, but isn't there ways to let your children hang on to that "child-like wonder" with OUT lying to them? I had a STRONG and VIVID imagination when I was a little girl. BUT I knew fantasy vs. reality.

I think my issue with it is the slight dishonesty. I am all about honesty, in fact I am adamant about it. I would never want my children to lie to me, to lead me to believe in a false story. In return I will never do that to them, ever.


_____________________________

"You'll never know the good with out the bad.
It's not until you experience pain that you will know pleasure.
It's not until you experience heartbreak that you will know true love.
It's when you face death, that you truly love life."
~Sparkie~

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:16:30 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

Take Santa Claus for example, every other parent tells their children that this fictional character is real.
I mean to pass no judgment, but it seems wrong to me to lie to your children by telling them a fictional character is real.

My parents told me from the start that it was fantasy and "play pretend", they NEVER lead me to believe he was actually real. They let me know the story of St. Nick and how the legend of Santa Claus came about.
I don't feel I missed out at all. I'm thankful they told me the truth from the start. When other children my age where growing older and being a bit heartbroken after finding out the truth...I already knew.

I get a lot of crap about this from other parents, but I've already made up my mind to tell my children the TRUE story of St. Nick, just as my parents did. I prefer my children to know FACTS, history, and fill their heads with actual KNOWLEDGE. I will encourage imagination of course, but will NOT ever lead them to believe that a fantasy is indeed reality.

I know there are other parents on this site, input on this? BTW: This doesn't just include Santa Claus, I mean anything that parents lead their children to believe is real or true when it is not. How is this right?


I think I'm in love. I agree 26,912%.

T

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:22:27 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Your post reminds me teribly of the Christmas movie that comes on every year.  It's about a successful mother back in the 50's maybe?  Who felt the same as you.  Her young daughter knew there was no Santa Claus, knew there was no Easter Bunny...and the mother's rationale was about that of yours.  Her daughter had to be taught how to pretend so she could join in on the fun other kids had when pretending. (An example was she couldn't see the sense in pretending, nor did she know how to use her imagination to pretend and had no clue how to play with others her age to use her imagination and pretend to be a monkey).

Watch the movie next year.  You may find the answers, and the parallels between your questions and the successful woman's (in the movie) approach.  The movie is called Miracle on 34th Street.  If you can't understand the message the movie sends, then you probably won't understand anyone's answer to you now.


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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:26:54 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This is absolutely one of My favorite pieces on the subject.

Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps.

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.

"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.

"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'

"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.

"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:31:53 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Louve, don't tell me you got the message I did from that. Santa's reality wasn't the point. Mom married a guy who could afford the house. Is that what you mean ?

Also, when it comes to the OP in the purer sense, it can be presented as fiction. A fiction that many people enjoy. You read a book, are the chatacters sitting in the room ? No. You watch a movie and no matter how big the screen and speakers the jet did not crash into the house nor did a dozen commandos come and raid the place. It is fiction.

The dictinction between fantasy and reality has always been of prime importance to my family, and sometimes they made us painfully aware of it.

T

ETA : LadyP, you got in edgewise. But I agree. That sorta explains it, it is not what you hear or see, it is something more. It is a spirit of giving and either you got it or you don't. It has no mass or volume, no matter how much Kentucky Fried Yak Santa might eat. If they grasp it, that there is something beyond what they can see and hear, that's a good thing, but as in the OP, don't lie.

Hell, it wouldn't work anyway. Kids today would call a forensic team to sweep the chimnet and look for DNA samples to find out just where he's from.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/26/2010 12:42:11 AM >

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:38:53 AM   
Awareness


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Status: offline 		  For the same reason they use the TV as a babysitter - because they're lazy.

Childlike wonder is not bound to a fiction which ostensibly rewards them for good behaviour.  It's a product of the desire to explore, the see the world and experience all it has to offer.  Parents tell children pre-prepared tales because it's EASIER than exploring the world along-side your child and helping them to discover or invent new stories which haven't been told.

I'm biased.  I'm a writer.  I'm an implicit storyteller.  And I believe you can enchant your children with stories without having to pretend a fiction is real.  Especially when that fiction is a dubious commercial piece of legerdemain designed to turn children into consumers.

And Miracle on 34th Street is a tired schmaltzy piece of nonsense.  I applaud those parents who defy their societal programming and teach their children to think for themselves.

I have a theory that Santa and similar fictions are responsible for much of the consumer-based angst of modern life.  Where the inherent emptiness of the relentless drive for the acquisition of things is instilled in children by corruptions of traditions such as Christmas, where the original meaning is lost in a haze of indulgence and acquisition.

In short, most parents resort to these fictions because they're lazy and they don't think.  Because they're a product of their society and unable to operate outside of its programming.  Because fundamentally they've lost so much of themselves, they no longer know how to teach.

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:39:11 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		It wasn't just the house, Term.  It was everything that played up to that house.  That little girl had no real joy in her life.  It was filled with pure, adult fact, when a child's life is learning, the wonder of it all...and the ability to appreciate imagination and have fun with it.  As I said...if you couldn't see the real message of the movie (which, btw, was restated in a different, more r/l way, as LadyPact's story about Virginia which happens to be a true story)...if you could only see the message of the movie as being the girl got her house because her mother met and fell in love with a man who could afford it, then you missed the moral.  

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:48:56 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"then you missed the moral"

I don't think so. I think it tells that Santa is not necessarily the one with the checkbook. I remember there were other things, things wished for that came true. Some require money and others don't.

The problem I have with Christmas is that it is all about buying now, not giving.

What's more, how does bribing a child instill goodwill ?

T

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 12:59:43 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		The subject seems to be morphing a bit now.  I don't know where pretend and bribery got thrown together.  I do agree Christmas is commercialized too much and Santa is used too much as the "reason for the spending season".  Even that seasonal commercialism was addressed in the tired schmaltzy piece of nonsense.  When Santa found out he was being used as the lure to attract children and accost their parents in to buy for them...he began to recommend other stores than Macy's, so the parents could actually fulfill the wants of their children (which, by the way, made Macy's look like it was putting aside its profit for the happiness of the children and became a plus in the parents eyes).

In the movie, Santa wasn't at all the one with the checkbook.  Santa was the one with imagination!


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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 1:02:02 AM   
LoveSparkie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

What's more, how does bribing a child instill goodwill ?

T


Exactly.

My oldest child was acting up on Christmas Eve during bedtime and was refusing to let anyone get any sleep. It would have been so easy for me to say the ole "Be good or Santa won't bring you any presents."
But I didn't, I simply told him he was being naughty, that I was not happy with him acting that way, and that he needed to go to sleep and tomorrow would be an exciting day. You know what? He immediately went to sleep after that.

I took the time to speak to him about how I felt instead of telling him the old charcoal in your stockings story.

My son does the whole Santa Claus thing, and thats fine to me. He runs around on Christmas with his cousins shouting about "Santa Claus this and Santa Claus that", BUT he's pretending and he knows he's pretending. He doesn't view it as a reality, because I have never lead him to believe that.

He's taught to view Santa Claus as the spirit of giving and not an actual man living with elves in the North Pole. That's the way I want it.


_____________________________

"You'll never know the good with out the bad.
It's not until you experience pain that you will know pleasure.
It's not until you experience heartbreak that you will know true love.
It's when you face death, that you truly love life."
~Sparkie~

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 1:21:22 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

...I prefer my children to know FACTS, history, and fill their heads with actual KNOWLEDGE. I will encourage imagination of course, but will NOT ever lead them to believe that a fantasy is indeed reality.

I know there are other parents on this site, input on this? BTW: This doesn't just include Santa Claus, I mean anything that parents lead their children to believe is real or true when it is not. How is this right?


i don't resent my parents for encouraging me to believe in Santa Claus. They encouraged me to believe a lot of things that some people think are "fantasies". For example, my parents also taught me to believe that:

**people are inherently good
**if you work hard, you will be successful
**taking responsibility for yourself is better than passing the buck
**what goes around comes around
**you should be fair, and expect fairness from others
**you should give people the benefit of the doubt
**good deeds are rewarded; bad deeds are punished
**a person's worth is determined by what's inside
**"everyone else is doing it" is not an acceptable excuse
**the differences between people are beautiful, rather than threatening
**it is better to forgive and forget
**etc.

What is real, and what is "fantasy"? Some people would say that having a moral code is a fantasy. They would say that real life doesn't work that way, and they would have a point. Real life often doesn't work that way, and my life has probably been harder for believing the things on this list. However, i will always be grateful to my parents for teaching me to see the world for what it should be, instead of what it is. Not sure what you meant, but that's my rant.

i've never met anyone who resented having believed in Santa. And i think that teaching kids to have faith in what they can't see or touch- is no bad thing.

pam


< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 12/26/2010 2:17:05 AM >

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 1:53:30 AM   
allthatjaz


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Status: offline 		Its partly about going back to our own childhood when life wasn't complicated and our imagination could be exercised without restraint.
If you watch children playing, its all about make believe and research has shown stretching the imagination in make believe is stimulating and healthy in children.

I believed in santa, fairies, pixies and elves and what a wonderful thing that was. Friends eventually convinced me that these things aren't real and I certainly can't remember being overly disappointed. It was just a progression into adulthood.


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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 1:54:10 AM   
delicatelydirty


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Status: offline 		why.. because my children enjoy it, my oldest is 10, she knows the truth  (about santa, easter bunny ect)and is far from heart broken, she grins at me and says mum I know they are real for those who believe ... she is on a good wicket with the tooth fairy at the moment..

it is a bit of fun ffs, I have yet to meet a child who was "heartbroken" learning the truth ...

Do you walk into church and tell them they are a bunch of fuckwits for believing in a fantasy

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 2:19:45 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		OK deli, I can deal with that but I have a question.

Those first ten years are the most profoundly important years in a child's development. While it is a good thing for them to be in good spirits, optimistic and all that, why lie ?

Please note that I am in favor of a law, even an amendment to the Constitution that prohibits anyone under a certain age from being exposed to religion of any kind. More so than pornography. Not that they should see porn, but really when very young they wouldn't think anything of it usually. But religion is different. Porn does not strive to indoctrinate you, religion does.

Think I'm crazy, fine. Stop by to make sure if you want. But religion is poison. Holidays are poison. All of it poisons the mind. Fantasies should teach or open new vistas in the mind, not attempt to control, and support the "economy".

T

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 2:36:59 AM   
delicatelydirty


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Status: offline 		Termy, what harm does it cause a child to allow them to believe in myth and legend, all to soon we grow up and "put away childish things" as they say...

Honestly each to thier own, but I believe in allowing my children to have those childhood fantasies, to have those memories, putting the carrot out for rudolf, the glass of milk for santa ect, the awe when they wake and the food and drink are gone. I don't see how that harms them at all, and when the day comes that they ask if santa is real, they get told the truth, but then if they chose to continue to "believe" as my daughter does, then those myths continue to be real for them... Hell I still hope santa will put something under the tree for me

I see no harm in believing in folklore if it makes you happy



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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 2:56:49 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

it seems wrong to me to lie to your children by telling them a fictional character is real.

I hope you're getting the point that some of the other posters have tried to make. Santa Claus is real. He's just not a jolly old fat man with a long white beard and a red suit who lives at the North Pole, rides a sleigh pulled by reindeer, and slides down chimneys. He's the spirit of someone who remembered you saying how much you wanted something, and got it for you as a present. He's the spirit of a loving parent, who wants you to be good, and who wants you to be happy.

It's not a lie. It's a fairy tale. And just as the spirit of persistence really does usually win the race, so also the spirit of remembering and selfless giving really does bring happiness to both the giver and the receiver. To children, the things they imagine are real. Not real in the same sense that things are real to adults, but real nonetheless. And in that sense, in that sense in which things like Santa Claus and imaginary friends are real to children, telling them that there is no Santa Claus is the lie.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/26/2010 3:25:46 AM >

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 3:06:23 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Well put. Not that I agree, but it was well put.

T

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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 3:22:54 AM   
delicatelydirty


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Status: offline 		Kirata that was so well said, that is what I would have liked to have said but really didn't know how to put it 

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