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RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:05:31 AM

kiwisub12

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I fail to see that i would be radically different a person if i had never believed in Santa Claus - and i don't recall a sense that my parents had lied to me. Perhaps i am unusual, but i don't think so.

Parent want to do their best for their children - and considering the numbers of parents that tell their kids about Santa Claus, i'm thinking that there is no perceived violence being done to the childrens immature psyche.

For me, it was as previously posted a bit of magic, a wonderment and a bit of fun. Nothing more, nothing less. Not something to get all intense about - though i have to say my feelings run more toward pity to the kids whose parents deny them that little piece of wonder.
But, in the scheme of things, not a big issue.

(in reply to subinlife)

Post #: 41

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:10:13 AM

Missokyst

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Umm... the mom had a great job and money enough, she just didn't have the house desire until she thought about her daughters want for one, and the new man in her life.
If anything he had less than she did.
..just a point of clarification here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Louve, don't tell me you got the message I did from that. Santa's reality wasn't the point. Mom married a guy who could afford the house. Is that what you mean ?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 42

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:13:25 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Well, I can tell you not believing in Santa is not a hardship. What was a hardship for me was thinking Santa was real but he just didn't visit us jewish kids.

Meh. You got Hanukah Harry.

The whole "Meh" attitude is really easy for those who grew up in the general dogma. But try growing up outside of that and its not easy being an outsider.

C'mon Lushy, it was not that bad for us Jewish kids. In fact, we had gifts every day for 8 days, far more than my little friends who celebrated Christmas.

Back to the OP. I don't have kids, but I have nieces and nephews who are all brilliant and insight, intuitive, sensitive and imaginative. I get along with children and I adore their quick and creative minds.

Children are a wonder to behold. They can draw a picture of imagined people interspersed with those they know, they can build a fort out of towels and bench chairs, they can dress up like fairy princesses, they can make Barbie and a stuffed animal talk.

They also can see through alot that adults do not give them credit for. Children are born pure; they respond when you treat them like people. And people need things to believe in.

Telling a child that Santa is not real or the tooth fairy is not real is just short circuiting the magic of childhood. It is not LYING. Lying is when you promise them you will be at their school dance recital and you don't show up; that damages them far more than slowly realizing that Santa is their parents.

I think you are seeing black and white where children see technicolor.

After all, isn't a rainbow beautiful whether you know it was made from nature or you think a little man in green has gold at the end of it?

Childhood is too short; there is plenty of time to grow up slowly and without taking the magic glasses off too soon.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 43

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:14:47 AM

Missokyst

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My parents did not actively promote the idea of santa claus, but they allowed the hype to encourage the belief. Eh.. no biggie in the long run. Santa was just the idea of gifting, not some magical being with unlimited funds. I did not feel at all cheated to find out the reality. Kids are more aware then you might think. The idea that they might be destroyed and saddened by the knowlege of finding out there is no santa is way over the top.

(in reply to LoveSparkie)

Post #: 44

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:24:55 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Umm... the mom had a great job and money enough, she just didn't have the house desire until she thought about her daughters want for one, and the new man in her life.
If anything he had less than she did.
..just a point of clarification here.

Good catch! In fact, technically, wasn't he unemployed when they 'found' the house? He'd quit the law firm because the senior partners didn't like that he had taken on the case and he was doing that one for free.

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Post #: 45

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:38:09 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

What's more, how does bribing a child instill goodwill ?

T

Exactly.

My oldest child was acting up on Christmas Eve during bedtime and was refusing to let anyone get any sleep. It would have been so easy for me to say the ole "Be good or Santa won't bring you any presents."
But I didn't, I simply told him he was being naughty, that I was not happy with him acting that way, and that he needed to go to sleep and tomorrow would be an exciting day. You know what? He immediately went to sleep after that.

I took the time to speak to him about how I felt instead of telling him the old charcoal in your stockings story.

My son does the whole Santa Claus thing, and thats fine to me. He runs around on Christmas with his cousins shouting about "Santa Claus this and Santa Claus that", BUT he's pretending and he knows he's pretending. He doesn't view it as a reality, because I have never lead him to believe that.

He's taught to view Santa Claus as the spirit of giving and not an actual man living with elves in the North Pole. That's the way I want it.

So what you are saying is that you are a better parent than someone who told their child Santa is real.

Feel better now?

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Post #: 46

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:39:28 AM

Hillwilliam

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You ask why it is ok for children to believe in make-believe characters. A HUGE number of adults believe in mythical/make-believe characters.

(in reply to delicatelydirty)

Post #: 47

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 9:40:04 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I see healing our children from divisive imagery and such things as part of what comes along with parenting. My kids aren't Christian -- if anything, they spent much of their young life pagan..., but for any who know my path, they know that I'm non-deistic, and so is my path, so the whole "put the Christ back in Christmas" thing never really did apply at our household, either -- but it didn't stop my kids from enjoying the concept of Santa Claus.

Because so much of the common community's mythology didn't really apply to our household, I felt that it was important to give my kids some background that they COULD relate to -- so we explored winter solstice mythology and rituals from as far back as we could go -- and then speculated on what such a season might be like even further, as I encouraged them to learn, as they grew, about everything we knew about our most ancient ancestors back to the time when homo erectus first started developing as a species. They knew that Santa was a representation of the Holiday Spirit in the Christian mythology, his shape defined by a Christian holy person... and they knew that Santa was also representative of much of the secular Holiday energy because of the reflective nature of the majority religion on secular ideas -- but that the Holiday energy around the winter solstice was there for everyone to enjoy, and that it wasn't bound by -any- particular imagery, so they could enjoy Santa and without having to embrace any particular philosophy except for the energy of healing, community, and sharing that were so vital to the season. My kids decided that that energy came to OUR house as the Solstice Fairies, and instead of bringing -things-, brought them DREAMS. They got presents, but the presents were shared at our house as an essence of the whole aspect of community and sharing... not as a bribe to be good. Even when we were literally -dirt- poor, and our Solstice Tree was a string of 50 cent lights tacked to the wall in the shape of a tree, my kids -never- heard from me that the energy of the season had abandoned them, or that the reason that they didn't get presents was because they'd been 'bad' or because some other religion wanted to leave them out of all the fun. They knew that, regardless of where they believed that the presents came from, energy had to go into bringing those presents into our home -- and that sometimes, it took all the energy there was, in the form of money, just to keep the home together. Did they like it? -- nope... but did they feel bad, deprived, left out, or guilty about it...? Nope -- at least, as adults, they tell me that they didn't... that it was still hard to see their friends get lots of stuff, but at least they never had to worry that not having stuff was somehow their fault, or that they'd been left out on purpose because they didn't believe like everyone else.

The fact that some parents leave the door open for their children to feel left out and deprived during childhood is not a reason to decry the mythology -- just a reason to find better-fitting mythos to share and uplift one's own kids, IMO.

Calla

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Post #: 48

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:09:40 AM

WestBaySlave

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While I hardly feel scarred and traumatized by the experience, the Santa Claus myth did become increasingly confusing as I grew older, smarter, and more inquisitive about how the world worked. As a small child I just accepted it unquestioningly, but from about six to ten ( ten being the age I figured it out ) I was full of questions like:

- How come Santa brings many gifts to rich kids, few gifts to poor kids, and nothing at all those starving kids the charity commercials talk about?

- For that matter, why does he not bring things to grown-ups? ( I certainly knew a lot of nice grown-ups, and it bothered me that Santa didn't think my mom was nice enough to give a present to! )

- If Santa can bring anything to anyone all around the world, why only at Christmas? He could help so many people and do so many good things all the other days, and toys aren't all that important after all. Like, what about bringing sick people to hospitals quickly?

- Why only visit kids who believed in Christmas? ( I see from other comments on this thread, I wasn't alone in this! )

If your kid is only thinking as far as how fun and cool getting a Christmas present is Santa is pretty much harmless amusement. As they start becoming more world-aware, Santa Claus can become distinctly confusing and look decidedly unfair when thought of in the broader context of the world's troubles.

(in reply to LoveSparkie)

Post #: 49

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:15:26 AM

LadyConstanze

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OP: What you tell your kids and what not is your thing, but that looking down on parents who let their kids believe in something that is magical for them, that I don't understand.

I grew up with believing in Santa until my parents thought I should know, it didn't stop them from teaching me the history of it and encouraging me to have an inquisitive mind. It was just wonderful to have that extra bit of magic, much more exciting than knowing mom and dad bought you presents, I knew that, the story was "People buy things and Santa looks after them, wraps them up and takes care of delivering them for Xmas", it was very exciting!

On the other hand, there were kids who had been told there is no Santa, and in kindergarden they were the little shits who tried to ruin it for everybody else, trumpeting around that there is no Santa and they know, and the ones who believe in Santa are stupid - as I said, spoil sports trying to kill it for the other kids - they must have taken after their pompous, self-righteous parents.

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Post #: 50

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:26:55 AM

barelynangel

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LadyConstanza, you are BLAMING 5 years old for parroting what their parents taught them? You are saying that these kids who are being told something from their parents that they KNOW they are ruining it for other kids? I mean seriously? What's the difference between these kids saying there is no santa and the kids who say there are, running around trying to tell these other kids there IS a santa?

Don't do that, don't blame 5 year olds in a concept of malice because they are simply saying what they are being taught to believe. Its NO DIFFERENT than kids saying to them that there IS A SANTA. What isn't that trying to ruin it for kids who are being taught there is no santa?

To blame the 5 year old for parroting what he is being taught by adults is just welll wrong. They don't know any different, and yeah just like kids who BELIEVE in Santa, they are saying what they are being taught to believe.

Did you ever think that the kids running around throwing into these kids face that santa IS REAL are trying to spoil what these kids are being taugh to believe? Yet you blame a 5 year old.

Give me a fucking break.

angel

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Post #: 51

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:31:24 AM

LadyConstanze

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Barely,

Maybe you want to familiarize yourself with the concept of IRONY, I mean REALLY, if that is not way beyond your mental capacities or too far down from that mighty high horse, apparently it's so high that you lost touch with reality.

quote:

Give me a fucking break.

No thank you, anything with the F word - sorry, you're just not my type, I like 'em smart.

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
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Post #: 52

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:36:39 AM

barelynangel

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Maybe i read your post wrong but your last paragraph was full of an awful lot of blame and malice against little kids ruining it right down to your last sentence.   I don't believe you meant it ironically, i think you meant every negative concept you had in that paragraph. Calling them little shits and such just seems to much like TRUTH of what you believe.

My name is angel or barelynangel, please use it as i used your full name initially. I will give you the benefit of the doubt once that you weren't aware that i don't appreciate being called barely because i would like to believe you don't resort to such childishness as using a name you know someone doesn't like simply because you don't like what they write.   Maybe you are that childish.   Something tells me you DO know i don't like it, but hey, i will give you the benefit of being an adult. After all its Christmas and every now and again, i like to believe in people. Your posts from here on out will clarify.

Yeah well according to you i may not be smart, but at least i know grammar better than you do if you think fucking in that sentence was a verb.   You may want to look it up before calling another person's intelligence into play.   But maybe i am on the mark about your childishness based on your last sentence.
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/26/2010 10:46:43 AM >

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Post #: 53

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:36:58 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

My parents told me from the start that it was fantasy and "play pretend", they NEVER lead me to believe he was actually real. They let me know the story of St. Nick and how the legend of Santa Claus came about.

Hmmm... here you complain that parents lie about the reality of Santa Clause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

Perhaps you may want to read up on what you may not know.

The spirit of Santa Clause is well and alive for me and mine. As a teenager, i wanted something for christmas. My father was retired from the military, my mother in nursing school. There was NO money for gifts that extravagant. They explained this, and i accepted their explanation. I was no longer of the age that i believed in Santa.

Christmas morning, what i wanted was there, in a prettily wrapped bag. Because i had a younger brother who was only 8, i later asked my father how he could afford that gift. He stated that two nights before a call came in from a neighbor whose hot water heater went out and they couldnt wait three days for the plumber to come out and install it. It was enough to pay for the coat i wanted.

You may consider that a fortunate act, kharma, a coincidence. I see it as the spirit of Santa Clause. Oddly enough, so does my son.

We still believe.

I feel nothing but pity for those who dont have that ability.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 54

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:45:17 AM

barelynangel

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tazzy, i have heard many stories as you have described here and yes to me its the spirit of Christmas and many times the spirit of Santa -- somehow someway, offering the parents a way. I love hearing about stories like that.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Post #: 55

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:51:57 AM

tazzygirl

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to me, angel, the spirit of Santa for children is the mystery and the magic, along with the presents. For the parents, its in the ability to fullfill that little gift their child desperately wants, and watching the joy of the season light up their eyes.

lol

on a side note. one of the kids at work wanted me to tell him where to write to Santa at, because his letter would be late. Yep, you guessed it, he is the resident smart ass. i told him i could not possibly divuldge that information because its a parent secret, and since he was not a parent, he would have to ask his own mom or dad to send it for him. told him the address was located in the handbook that comes when a child is born. he emphatically stated there was no manual for children. i asked if he had kids. he said no. i asked him... how would you know then?... shut him up for a while! that was my santa feeling this year! (the kid really needs ritalin)

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 56

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:54:08 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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parents would hopefully teach their kids enough manners so as to not have them going up to others and"Neener neener...." stuff. It's rude and hurtful and shows poor manners, and the parents lack of instilling good manners.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Beyond that, by impressing upon them that Santa isn't real, please be aware that you will be causing them hardship. Because the kid who they go up to and say "neener, neener, my mommy says Santa isn't real and your mommy is a liar" is going to go home in tears, and won't be friends with your child after.

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Post #: 57

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 10:59:37 AM

tazzygirl

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Tfb, visit a classroom sometime. You would be surprised at the appaling lack of manners parents teach their children.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

Post #: 58

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 11:02:27 AM

LadyConstanze

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What tazzy said...

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Post #: 59

RE: Why do Parents tell their children fictional charac... - 12/26/2010 11:09:21 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I used to vOlunteer at a school after school, one of the kids when doing something wrong and I called her on it and said don't do that, she put her hands on her hips and said" your not the boss of me, I don't have to listen to you" then, turned to the kids she was playing with and told them don't listen to her. She changed her tune real quick when I told her, I could tell her teacher, and then I could inform her dad of her attitude and HE could tell her what to do. I see how rude lil kids are to those thair own age and to adults a lot in public.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Tfb, visit a classroom sometime. You would be surprised at the appaling lack of manners parents teach their children.

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 12/26/2010 11:17:46 AM >

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Post #: 60

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