quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelslilbit

To the OP (fast reply cuz I haven't been on CM for a long time and I don't feel like reading five pages ^.^):

I am so freaking glad to know I'm not the only one!!!! No matter what anyone else tells you, no matter how hard they try to get you to believe otherwise, you CAN infact instill imagination, creativity, love, a giving spirit, and good will toward other people WITHOUT telling your child that a jolly fat man lives at the north pole and delivers presents to only children who have been good all year. I have labeled myself as "other" when it comes to religion since I was ten years old and realized what a bunch of hypocrites most of the Christian community are. IMO no one has it "right". Oh, and someone threw out there that "no child is heartbroken to learn that Santa wasn't real". Untrue. You're reading something posted by someone who has had serious trust issues because I caught my mother putting Santa's presents under the tree one year. She lied, and in a household where telling the truth (not cleanliness) was next to "godliness", I couldn't trust my mother anymore (Mother is God in the eyes of a child. Learn it, live it, know the truth in it).... and there fore I have had a hell of a time and several therapists trying to be able to trust people again. The youth of any country is not defined by how long they believe in fairy tales any more than the tale of Santa actually keeps kids from misbehaving all but the last two months of the year. Child like wonder can be developed in so many other ways, I'll not be subjecting my children to any of it. They will grow up knowing the truth, and learning these other ideals from the person they are supposed to be learning them from.... their parents.

Just because your parents did it, and you survived it, doesn't make it right. And it is human nature to remember things in a distorted (either way worse or way better) way then they actually happened.


*edited to add*
Oh, and who gets to decide what is "truth"? In my house, I do. Cuz I'm the mom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

I think I'll interject here with a point that hasn't been made yet - which is: it also depends upon the child.

When my daughter was born, I envisioned a childhood with her made up of Disney fairytales, princess dresses, myths and dragons, magic and mystery unfolding...which included the tales of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

I did everything to perpetuate the stories of Santa for her...I set out the cookies, threw oats out for the reindeer, told tales of the North Pole and the elves, the magical Christmas Star...the whole bit.

She was having none of it. She figured out that Santa wasn't real before age 5 (I have no idea how, other than her own factual analysis). Yes, she's one of those kids that actually slept by the tree all night at age 4 to see if Santa actually came - she was having nothing of the stories. And she figured it out - because she needed to.

I remember when she came to me and said, "Mom, you and Dad are Santa Claus, aren't you? And you're the tooth fairy, too." She was 5. Yes, 5. And I hesitated, wanting so badly to say, "Oh no sweetie, Santa is real!" But then I remembered at age 8 when one of my friends told me that Santa was my parents, and how I argued, that "NO, Santa is real!" and then when I found out later I felt SO embarrased and stupid for defending a myth. So I told my daughter the truth (which was what she wanted), factually, why we believe in Santa, the meaning of Christmas, the whole tale. And she got it. I also told her that many of her friends would believe in Santa for many more years, and not to ruin the story for anyone else. And she never did.

Reality is that once she knew the truth, she appreciated Santa even more. She is a kind, caring, empathic soul who is firmly grounded in reality - even though she knows that there are forces in the Universe that we'll never truly understand. She's at peace with it all. And I've learned more from her over the years than I ever thought I would - even if she never did wear the princess dresses I bought her.

Oh, and she never wanted me to "Kiss her booboo and make it better"either - she wanted a bandaid (and she knew where to find them). And then she wanted a hug. But she never confused the "making a booboo better" with being consoled and loved.

My daughter has always been - and always will be, a critical thinker who values information above fantasy. And I was the one who had to adapt to fulfill her needs - not my own. She is now almost 12 years old, and she is amazing. People tell me all the time how smart, funny, outgoing, and wise she is for her age - and of course I'm very, very proud of her.

Each child is different. Each home is different. Each heart is different, and each mind and soul is different. To make a blanket statement of the usefulness of childhood fantasies and fictional characters for all children is silly, in my book. Children are on their own individual journies in life, just like we all are. I think the best we can do is let them know that they are loved, safe, and that the world is a wonderful place - and give them the tools to make it so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelslilbit
To the OP (fast reply cuz I haven't been on CM for a long time and ^.^): I don't feel like reading five pages

I am so freaking glad to know I'm not the only one!!!! No matter what anyone else tells you, no matter how hard they try to get you to believe otherwise, you CAN infact instill imagination, creativity, love, a giving spirit, and good will toward other people WITHOUT telling your child that a jolly fat man lives at the north pole and delivers presents to only children who have been good all year. I have labeled myself as "other" when it comes to religion since I was ten years old and realized what a bunch of hypocrites most of the Christian community are. IMO no one has it "right". Oh, and someone threw out there that "no child is heartbroken to learn that Santa wasn't real". Untrue. You're reading something posted by someone who has had serious trust issues because I caught my mother putting Santa's presents under the tree one year. She lied, and in a household where telling the truth (not cleanliness) was next to "godliness", I couldn't trust my mother anymore (Mother is God in the eyes of a child. Learn it, live it, know the truth in it).... and there fore I have had a hell of a time and several therapists trying to be able to trust people again. The youth of any country is not defined by how long they believe in fairy tales any more than the tale of Santa actually keeps kids from misbehaving all but the last two months of the year. Child like wonder can be developed in so many other ways, I'll not be subjecting my children to any of it. They will grow up knowing the truth, and learning these other ideals from the person they are supposed to be learning them from.... their parents.

Just because your parents did it, and you survived it, doesn't make it right. And it is human nature to remember things in a distorted (either way worse or way better) way then they actually happened.


*edited to add*
Oh, and who gets to decide what is "truth"? In my house, I do. Cuz I'm the mom.

As i said.. sad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelslilbit

To the OP (fast reply cuz I haven't been on CM for a long time and I don't feel like reading five pages ^.^):

I am so freaking glad to know I'm not the only one!!!! No matter what anyone else tells you, no matter how hard they try to get you to believe otherwise, you CAN infact instill imagination, creativity, love, a giving spirit, and good will toward other people WITHOUT telling your child that a jolly fat man lives at the north pole and delivers presents to only children who have been good all year. I have labeled myself as "other" when it comes to religion since I was ten years old and realized what a bunch of hypocrites most of the Christian community are. IMO no one has it "right". Oh, and someone threw out there that "no child is heartbroken to learn that Santa wasn't real". Untrue. You're reading something posted by someone who has had serious trust issues because I caught my mother putting Santa's presents under the tree one year. She lied, and in a household where telling the truth (not cleanliness) was next to "godliness", I couldn't trust my mother anymore (Mother is God in the eyes of a child. Learn it, live it, know the truth in it).... and there fore I have had a hell of a time and several therapists trying to be able to trust people again. The youth of any country is not defined by how long they believe in fairy tales any more than the tale of Santa actually keeps kids from misbehaving all but the last two months of the year. Child like wonder can be developed in so many other ways, I'll not be subjecting my children to any of it. They will grow up knowing the truth, and learning these other ideals from the person they are supposed to be learning them from.... their parents.

Just because your parents did it, and you survived it, doesn't make it right. And it is human nature to remember things in a distorted (either way worse or way better) way then they actually happened.


*edited to add*
Oh, and who gets to decide what is "truth"? In my house, I do. Cuz I'm the mom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

What about story books and tv programs like Sesame street? Who cares if the cookie monster isn't real,

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

Did you or your kids experience any distress emotionally when you learned he wasn't?

I've heard some kids get really dismayed, others just shrug it off.  At what age? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

I'd like to ask a question then, that builds on this thread.  It was actually asked to me the other day at work, and I didn't have an answer for it.

For those of you who believed in Santa Cluas...or have kids who believed he was real...
Did you or your kids experience any distress emotionally when you learned he wasn't?

I've heard some kids get really dismayed, others just shrug it off.  At what age?  My school was almost 100% Jewish, so we regarded Santa Claus as a fun holiday tradition, just like the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy.  I have no frame of reference on this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Why is it important for kids to grow up so quickly? Nowadays, you can see seven year olds with cell phones, instead of playing outdoors and using their imagination, they are sitting behind computers or games on consoles... Whats wrong with fictional characters, how are they harmful to a young mind?

i don't think the OP has any problem with fictional characters, make believe, or pretend. (See below). She just has a problem with lying to her kids, which is understandable.

quote:

ORIGINAL:LoveSparkie
My son does the whole Santa thing, and that's fine with me. He runs around on Christmas with his cousins shouting about "Santa Claus this and Santa Claus that", BUT he's pretending and he knows he's pretending.

quote:

ORIGINAL:LoveSparkie
I mean to pass no judgement, but it seems wrong to me to lie to your children by telling them a fictional character is real... I will encourage imagination, of course, but will NOT ever lead them to believe that a fantasy is indeed reality

A little make believe is not such a bad thing. Maybe if more kids thought Santa were real, there would be less 2nd and 3rd graders going for professional therapy and counseling. (just one out of hundreds you can find via the internet)


In all fairness, i don't think that nonbelief in Santa is what's driving these kids to need counseling. In fact, your own link lists the probable cause as children of single working mothers spending too much time away from the home, and in daycare.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveSparkie

Take Santa Claus for example, every other parent tells their children that this fictional character is real.
I mean to pass no judgment, but it seems wrong to me to lie to your children by telling them a fictional character is real.

My parents told me from the start that it was fantasy and "play pretend", they NEVER lead me to believe he was actually real. They let me know the story of St. Nick and how the legend of Santa Claus came about.
I don't feel I missed out at all. I'm thankful they told me the truth from the start. When other children my age where growing older and being a bit heartbroken after finding out the truth...I already knew.

I get a lot of crap about this from other parents, but I've already made up my mind to tell my children the TRUE story of St. Nick, just as my parents did. I prefer my children to know FACTS, history, and fill their heads with actual KNOWLEDGE. I will encourage imagination of course, but will NOT ever lead them to believe that a fantasy is indeed reality.

I know there are other parents on this site, input on this? BTW: This doesn't just include Santa Claus, I mean anything that parents lead their children to believe is real or true when it is not. How is this right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

When we were little, there was no tv, computers or electronic games...we were sent outside at sunrise and told to be back when the street lights came on.   Imagination was our friend, we pretended to be super heros, or anything that popped into our little noggins and had tea parties with invisible people.   Whats wrong with fictional characters, how are they harmful to a young mind?   

A little make believe is not such a bad thing.  Maybe if more kids thought Santa were real, there would be less 2nd and 3rd graders going for professional therapy and counseling.  (just one out of hundreds you can find via the internet)

Lisa

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

quote:

In all fairness, i don't think that nonbelief in Santa is what's driving these kids to need counseling. In fact, your own link lists the probable cause as children of single working mothers spending too much time away from the home, and in daycare.

 
My example was just one, of hundreds.   I agree that non belief in Santa is not the single culprit in sending kids to the couch...but rather the lack of imagination and growth, plus the speed we instill in their development.   Not just single mothers have this problem, it happens in the traditional family unit as well.    We are a society of people on the move, always looking for faster ways, including raising kids.   Some things can't be rushed :)     

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

A little make believe is not such a bad thing.  Maybe if more kids thought Santa were real, there would be less 2nd and 3rd graders going for professional therapy and counseling.  (just one out of hundreds you can find via the internet)

Lisa

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I hope you're getting the point that some of the other posters have tried to make. Santa Claus is real. He's just not a jolly old fat man with a long white beard and a red suit who lives at the North Pole, rides a sleigh pulled by reindeer, and slides down chimneys. He's the spirit of someone who remembered you saying how much you wanted something, and got it for you as a present. He's the spirit of a loving parent, who wants you to be good, and who wants you to be happy.

quote:

It's not a lie. It's a fairy tale. And just as the spirit of persistence really does usually win the race, so also the spirit of remembering and selfless giving really does bring happiness to both the giver and the receiver. To children, the things they imagine are real. Not real in the same sense that things are real to adults, but real nonetheless. And in that sense, in that sense in which things like Santa Claus and imaginary friends are real to children, telling them that there is no Santa Claus is the lie.

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