RE: Islam and illogic (Full Version)

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calamitysandra -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 1:40:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Some sick bastards blow up children and preach jihad in the name of Islam. Some sick bastards kill abortion doctors and celebrate the deaths of gay solders in the name of Christianity. Some sick bastards slaughter millions in the name of a political ideology. Some sick bastards commit rape and murder because it gets them off. Some sick bastards blame religions, political ideologies, or kink for the world's problems.

The common element here is sick bastards.

K.


Quoted 'cause it can not be stated often enough.



mnottertail -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 1:42:06 PM)

But even at that there are just plain sick bastards (such as myself) that do not do that sort of thing, they are just glorious (sick) bastards.

Selah!!!!



Rule -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 1:50:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
There's nothing much wrong with either Islam or Christianity as a set of ideas and principles.

I can think of some wrongs.



hertz -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 2:00:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
There's nothing much wrong with either Islam or Christianity as a set of ideas and principles.

I can think of some wrongs.


Yeah, so can I. Some of the later revised versions of the two religions are better than the earlier versions, though...



GotSteel -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 2:52:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
The fact that the ethnic difference in this case pertained to religious customs does not automatically make it a religious war


[sm=Groaner.gif]



GotSteel -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 2:58:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.

In case you missed my position the first time:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Ours wasn't exactly hatred free and theirs isn't exactly hatred based.

When it comes to the question of why the two are so different now, I agree with DarkSteven.

"It is the role of unbelievers to force religions to be benign." -Martin Marty



DomKen -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 3:19:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
nor fought in the name of religion.

Really?
The Serbs said otherwise.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/access/513742501.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Aug+14%2C+1992&author=Record+news+services&pub=Waterloo+Region+Record&desc=Serbs+pose+as+Christian+crusaders+%3A+Claims+of+saving+Europe+from+Islam+denied+by+reality&pqatl=google

The Bosniaks and other muslims felt the same
http://www.newsweek.com/1992/10/04/help-from-the-holy-warriors.html



Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 3:59:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Serbs said otherwise.

Reading comprehension fail:

Serbs in Banja Luka sometimes describe Muslim neighbors as "traitors" - a reference to the conversion of their ancestors to Islam under the Ottoman Empire, against which the Serbs warred for centuries.

Note "traitors" ...the roots of the conflict are nationalistic.

In the Serbian world view, the Roman Catholic church is soft on the Muslim threat and in any case backs Croatia, whose aim, said the Serbs, is to repeat the extermination of Serbs carried out by the Nazi puppet Croatian state during the Second World War.

By your logic, the Nazi's were waging a "religious war" then, too.

K.



DomKen -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 4:16:25 PM)

Try that again.

The Croats were suspect because they were catholic. The Bosniaks were traitors because they were muslim. How precisely is this not religious?



Politesub53 -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 4:33:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

In other words- if Ireland was independent, would Irish Catholics still wage war Protestants?


The quick answer is yes.



Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 4:46:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Try that again.

Try thinking...

Neither the motivation, the alleged offense and justification, nor the goal, are religious.

K.




DomKen -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 4:49:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Try that again.

Try thinking...

Neither the motivation, nor the alleged offense and justification, nor the goal, are religious.

K.

Apparently you are using a novel definition of religious. Religious means related to religion. The Serbs who believed they were christian crusaders certainly made the conflict religious for them and their victims.



truckinslave -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:04:21 PM)

"its not Islam we have been at war with but a small fraction of radical Islamic fighters who don't represent Islam as a whole."

Yeah thats the PC line.

But no one has explained to me how this itsy bitsy teeny weeny insignificiant microscopic minority can train, raise money, and recruit in complete secrecy.
And the fact is, they cannot; as is becoming increasingly clear from the nature of those who are "ratted out"- for every terrrorist (wannabe) dozens if not scores if not hundreds of others have reason to be suspicious of him.

The PCisms also do not explain 27% of British Muslims- British, not non-western- admitting (admitting!!!!) they would not report knowledge of another, impending subway attack. 

The PCisms also just flat dismiss history and the Koran itself.

We beleive what we are conditioned to believe, and Americans are conditioned to such hyper-tolerance that most of us reject the possibility of a true, pure, religious war even as mullahs wordwide beat the drum for it.





Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:11:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Apparently you are using a novel definition of religious.

Either that, or your superpowers are performing their typical self-justificatory function.

Religious designations are sometimes used as shorthand for cultural and historical differences between combatants, giving the often misleading impression that the conflict is primarily about religious differences.

For example, here's another case in point that has come up in this thread...

there is a common perception of The Troubles in Northern Ireland as a religious conflict, as one side (Nationalists) was predominantly composed of Catholics and the other (Unionists) of Protestants. However, the more fundamental cause is the attachment of Northern Ireland to either the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom and while religion played a role as a cultural marker, the conflict was in fact ethnic or nationalistic rather than religious in nature. Since the native Irish were mostly Catholic and the later British-sponsored immigrants were mainly Protestant, the terms become shorthand for the two cultures, but it is inaccurate to describe the conflict as a religious one.

K.



truckinslave -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:11:45 PM)

I'm surprised that you would try to make a moral equivalency argument equating a practice of the Westboro Baptist church (all  ?50?  of them) and a fundamental, historical tenet of a religion of over a billion. 



Hillwilliam -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:14:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"its not Islam we have been at war with but a small fraction of radical Islamic fighters who don't represent Islam as a whole."

Yeah thats the PC line.

But no one has explained to me how this itsy bitsy teeny weeny insignificiant microscopic minority can train, raise money, and recruit in complete secrecy.
And the fact is, they cannot; as is becoming increasingly clear from the nature of those who are "ratted out"- for every terrrorist (wannabe) dozens if not scores if not hundreds of others have reason to be suspicious of him.

The PCisms also do not explain 27% of British Muslims- British, not non-western- admitting (admitting!!!!) they would not report knowledge of another, impending subway attack. 

The PCisms also just flat dismiss history and the Koran itself.

We beleive what we are conditioned to believe, and Americans are conditioned to such hyper-tolerance that most of us reject the possibility of a true, pure, religious war even as mullahs wordwide beat the drum for it.






Sounds like good old Boston Catholics taking up a collection to send to Sinn Fein.



Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:18:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I'm surprised that you would try to make a moral equivalency argument equating a practice of the Westboro Baptist church (all ?50? of them) and a fundamental, historical tenet of a religion of over a billion.

And precisely what "fundamental, historical tenet" might that be?

K.



truckinslave -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:18:18 PM)

Please don't make me regret this.

Why?

And, why just Catholics in Ireland? If it is truly religious in nature, why aren't Italian Catholics, say, fighting a religious war against Protestants? Swedish Catholics? Argentenian Catholics?






truckinslave -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:21:53 PM)

"Sounds like good old Boston Catholics taking up a collection to send to Sinn Fein. "

For the political reunification of the auld country, not just to kill Protestants for their faith.



lickenforyou -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/29/2010 5:23:12 PM)

quote:

That's because Western civilization has taken the power out of the hands of religious leaders.
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.


That's because Western civilization has taken the power out of the hands of religious leaders.



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