RE: Islam and illogic

RE: Islam and illogic (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 4:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Oh, thank you! From the bottom of my heart. Thank God we have intelligent, brave conservatives such as yourself to protect us. Ferchrissake, don't encourage him... I know you're being sarcastic, but do you really trust that he has enough intelligence to recognize that? K.

Politesub53 -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 4:25:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eihwaz But wasn't Henry VIII's separation from the Catholic church predominately political in its aims and consequences? Conversely, it wasn't purely theological. It seems to me that -- certainly during this time in European history -- it's impossible to disentangle religion from either secular politics or national and ethnic identity. I agree and that is my whole point. It is almost impossible trying to disentangle Church and State in Europe at that time. Maybe even for the last 1,000 years. Henry did breakaway from the Church mainly to marry again, but there was a lot of disquiet in England as the church charged to marry or baptise people. People had to get children baptised because the church preached unbaptised children couldnt get to heaven. The poor were fed up with all the different tariffs, so basically Henry got a free ride from his public.

rulemylife -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 4:27:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Oh, thank you! From the bottom of my heart. Thank God we have intelligent, brave conservatives such as yourself to protect us. Ferchrissake, don't encourage him... I know you're being sarcastic, but do you really trust that he has enough intelligence to recognize that? K. If I thought he would recognize that it wouldn't be any fun. [sm=insane.gif][sm=ubanana.gif]

Hillwilliam -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 5:29:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata I swear, it's like playing Whack-a-Mole around here sometimes, ain't it? [:D] K. more like Whack-a-Troll How about Whack-a-Chimp. I do have to congratulate you though, I have never seen a more fitting avatar. Look back 2 pages. I beat ya to it/

DomKen -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 5:38:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How precisely do you tell the difference between a Bosniak and a Serb? A Serb is shorter than a Bosniak. No. Bosniaks and Serbs are descended from the same people. there is absolutely no way to differentiate one from the pother except by seeing what church they go to. Serbs are Orthodox slavs that live in the Balkans. Croats are Catholic slavs that live in the Balkans. Bosniaks are Muslim slavs that live in the Balkans.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 5:45:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How precisely do you tell the difference between a Bosniak and a Serb? A Serb is shorter than a Bosniak. No. Bosniaks and Serbs are descended from the same people. there is absolutely no way to differentiate one from the pother except by seeing what church they go to. Serbs are Orthodox slavs that live in the Balkans. Croats are Catholic slavs that live in the Balkans. Bosniaks are Muslim slavs that live in the Balkans. Bottom line. There is only ONE reason they could be slaughtering each other. Religion. That is the ONLY FUCKING DIFFERENCE between them.

DomKen -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 5:46:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen BTW to those arguing about the conflict in Ireland, the facts are that the conflict lies more in politics of empire than it does in religion (although religion is definitely part of it). The Irish Protestants are descendants of Scottish Presbytereans hired by William of Orange to aid him in the conquest of Ireland. They were given land in Ireland as payment. Absolute nonsense Ken. The problems in Ireland really got going around the time of Henry 8th. It was all to do with religion, and not Empire, as England was worried about Catholic France and Spain getting a foot hold on Ireland. I posted the reasons why in a previous reply to you. James 1st started the plantations around 1550 William Of Orange was 100 years later. The first British males to work the plantations were roughly half English and half Scots. I agree more Scots went over at a later date, but the Ulster Scots is somewhat of a misnomer, as many trace their roots to Wales or England. If you think the troubles can be traced to a small number of farm workers imported to Ireland to work English estates you really don't know much of the history. The troubles come from things like the Orange order and the fact that the protestants colonized the northern counties and displaced the Irish off their land. Wealth and power being given to the colonizing minority is the cause of the conflict. The fact that the Protestants maintained a distinctly different culture and nationality furthered the issues. Some of the Protestants can certainly trace their ancestry to those pre William farm workers but its simple enough to take a look at the situation now and to study the history and see that the troubles in Ireland, not Irish trouble with Britain, began with William of Orange.

Rule -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 6:29:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen How precisely do you tell the difference between a Bosniak and a Serb? A Serb is shorter than a Bosniak. No. Bosniaks and Serbs are descended from the same people. there is absolutely no way to differentiate one from the pother except by seeing what church they go to. Serbs are Orthodox slavs that live in the Balkans. Croats are Catholic slavs that live in the Balkans. Bosniaks are Muslim slavs that live in the Balkans. I was wondering who would be sufficiently incautious to step into my trap. It was a joke: "A Serb" has five letters, whereas "a Bosniak" has eight letters. Thus "A Serb" is shorter than "a Bosniak". See?

GotSteel -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 6:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel Calling their religion part of their ethnicity, fine whatever... I don't what you're talking about, and neither do you. Where in my post do you see the word "ethnic"? That would be right here: quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata ethnic —adj 1. relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata And by the way, in case you didn't notice, the question was what, exactly, defines a conflict as a "religious war". In case you didn't notice I gave you an answer, an ethnic war where ethnic really just means religious.

Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 8:42:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel That would be right here: Unh no, no it wouldn't be. That's from 8 posts back in a response to someone else. quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel In case you didn't notice I gave you an answer, an ethnic war where ethnic really just means religious. The factors at work in the Bosnia conflict are much more complicated than your simple-minded "ethnic really just means religious" formula, but it no longer surprises me to watch you use reason like a cheap whore when it serves your personal resentments against religion. As you commented recently in another thread: garbage in, garbage out. K.

rulemylife -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 8:48:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife How about Whack-a-Chimp. I do have to congratulate you though, I have never seen a more fitting avatar. Look back 2 pages. I beat ya to it/ Yeah, I know. I saw that after I posted it, but I left it up because I sincerely wanted to congratulate Willbeur on coming to terms with his inner self.

Kirata -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/30/2010 9:45:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Bottom line. There is only ONE reason they could be slaughtering each other. Religion. That is the ONLY FUCKING DIFFERENCE between them. That is an absurd statement. There aren't any two people anywhere between whom only 'one fucking difference' can be found. I doubt there is anything at all that happens in life that can be laid at the doorstep of 'only one thing'. DomKen has made what appears to be a slightly more sophisticated argument to the same effect: quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The sole identifying characteristic of the people targeted and those doing the targeting was their religion. That makes the war religious. By that logic, an American soldier in WWII who opens fire on some German troops, "the sole identifying characteristic of the people being targeted" being their uniforms, is engaged in a "sartorial war" and shooting them because he harbors a hated for their clothes. The history and motivations underlying the complicated conflict that came to a head in Bosnia were nationalistic, not religious, just as the history and motivations behind the soldier opening fire above had nothing to do with clothing. It perhaps bears remembering that Slobodan Milosevic was the leader of the Serbian Communist Party, which is not an organization noted for pursuing religious agendas. K.

Politesub53 -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/31/2010 3:33:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If you think the troubles can be traced to a small number of farm workers imported to Ireland to work English estates you really don't know much of the history. The troubles come from things like the Orange order and the fact that the protestants colonized the northern counties and displaced the Irish off their land. Wealth and power being given to the colonizing minority is the cause of the conflict. The fact that the Protestants maintained a distinctly different culture and nationality furthered the issues. Some of the Protestants can certainly trace their ancestry to those pre William farm workers but its simple enough to take a look at the situation now and to study the history and see that the troubles in Ireland, not Irish trouble with Britain, began with William of Orange. Ken, it is easy enough to think it all started with William of Orange, but that just isnt the case. The early plantation of Ulster was precisely carried out to enhance the Protestant landowners. That sowed the seeds for the Irish Confederate and Cromwellian wars, also known as the 11 years war. Scottish and English troops were fighting Catholics and royalist supporters on Irish as well as British soil. I dont follow how you can assume that a religious war over land didnt affect a religious war over the same land some 30 years later. The two events are obviously linked. http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/military/confederate-war.htm

Hillwilliam -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/31/2010 5:11:22 AM)
By that logic, an American soldier in WWII who opens fire on some German troops, "the sole identifying characteristic of the people being targeted" being their uniforms, is engaged in a "sartorial war" and shooting them because he harbors a hated for their clothes. The history and motivations underlying the complicated conflict that came to a head in Bosnia were nationalistic, not religious, just as the history and motivations behind the soldier opening fire above had nothing to do with clothing. It perhaps bears remembering that Slobodan Milosevic was the leader of the Serbian Communist Party, which is not an organization noted for pursuing religious agendas. K. < Message edited by Kirata -- 12/30/2010 9:55:30 PM > Untrue Kirata. Those people come from 2 nations several thousand miles apart. They are unlike politically. They are mostly unlike ethnically. They are unlike culturally. Sometimes they were unlike racialy Plus, if the German soldier steals an American uniform, he will be MORE likely to be executed as a spy than taken POW so that would show that it is NOT over dress. On the contrary, 'converting' has negative consequences, not positive.

GotSteel -> RE: Islam and illogic (12/31/2010 8:38:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata That's from 8 posts back in a response to someone else. What, do you think your positions from earlier in the thread magically disappear when your talking to me?

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