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RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 1:05:16 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Just curious to all those with the "no" means "NO!" mantra. Or "no, stop, don't" etc.... I mean, this is a D/s site afterall and I can't be the only Dom whose heard a sub crying/moaning "no/stop/don't" at the height of pleasure/pain passion while knowing damned well she's having a great time.

The very reason we, and many nillas, have agreed safewords is because "no" often DOESN'T MEAN "NO!" at all.... I think many of the primal urges D/s enables us to explore are taboo to general egalitarian society and this has some influence on a sub's psyche when passion overcomes reason and she starts saying "no" when she means the exact opposite.

Me, I'm so aware of it that, esp during pain play, I've checked in with her by specifically asking her to say her safeword in case she's lost the ability to, as happens with sub-space. I only continue if she can say the safeword but confirms she's not actually safewording per se'. Then I go by what I've learnt/learning of her general body language....

Actually, sub-space (or not) makes a pretty good guide as to what "no" means. At least, during play....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 1:38:49 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
sometimes, "just not in the mood" equates to 'no, there is a reason'
just sayin


I have this sneaking idea that maledoms will be more accepting of that view amongst their femsubs than femdoms will be of it amongst their malesubs, Greedy.  'I have a headache' isn't a line that, for men, commands the same respect as it does for women.  More generally, we're not supposed to have impenetrably complicated sensitivies, feelings and emotions.   We have only the one switch; you flick it, we're expected to be good to go.  

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 2:04:32 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Just curious to all those with the "no" means "NO!" mantra. Or "no, stop, don't" etc.... I mean, this is a D/s site afterall and I can't be the only Dom whose heard a sub crying/moaning "no/stop/don't" at the height of pleasure/pain passion while knowing damned well she's having a great time.

The very reason we, and many nillas, have agreed safewords is because "no" often DOESN'T MEAN "NO!" at all.... I think many of the primal urges D/s enables us to explore are taboo to general egalitarian society and this has some influence on a sub's psyche when passion overcomes reason and she starts saying "no" when she means the exact opposite.

Me, I'm so aware of it that, esp during pain play, I've checked in with her by specifically asking her to say her safeword in case she's lost the ability to, as happens with sub-space. I only continue if she can say the safeword but confirms she's not actually safewording per se'. Then I go by what I've learnt/learning of her general body language....

Actually, sub-space (or not) makes a pretty good guide as to what "no" means. At least, during play....

Focus.

I don't often say this, but: what he said. Exactly what he said.

Good point well made.


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(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 2:42:47 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I have this sneaking idea that maledoms will be more accepting of that view amongst their femsubs than femdoms will be of it amongst their malesubs, Greedy.  'I have a headache' isn't a line that, for men, commands the same respect as it does for women.  More generally, we're not supposed to have impenetrably complicated sensitivies, feelings and emotions.   We have only the one switch; you flick it, we're expected to be good to go.  


Not really.  I know that if he has a headache or is otherwise feeling poorly, he's not going to be able to have a firm erection or good sexual/submissive energy and desire.  Since my own fun pretty much depends on these things, I'm more inclined to let him rest than to demand that he drag through it anyway.  Besides, I own two, so if one of them needs downtime and I'm bored, I can use the other. 

If they both need downtime at the same time, well, I do have a life that doesn't involve kink or sex.  I can always go hit the gym by myself and have a good workout. 


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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 3:01:01 PM   
ThePeripatetic


Posts: 139
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Just curious to all those with the "no" means "NO!" mantra. Or "no, stop, don't" etc.... I mean, this is a D/s site afterall and I can't be the only Dom whose heard a sub crying/moaning "no/stop/don't" at the height of pleasure/pain passion while knowing damned well she's having a great time.

The very reason we, and many nillas, have agreed safewords is because "no" often DOESN'T MEAN "NO!" at all.... I think many of the primal urges D/s enables us to explore are taboo to general egalitarian society and this has some influence on a sub's psyche when passion overcomes reason and she starts saying "no" when she means the exact opposite.

Me, I'm so aware of it that, esp during pain play, I've checked in with her by specifically asking her to say her safeword in case she's lost the ability to, as happens with sub-space. I only continue if she can say the safeword but confirms she's not actually safewording per se'. Then I go by what I've learnt/learning of her general body language....

Actually, sub-space (or not) makes a pretty good guide as to what "no" means. At least, during play....

Focus.


I agree completely Focus! And this idea of "no" meaning "NO!" during actual play is not exactly what I had in mind when I asked the question. You're right, that's what we have safe-words for. My original post was more along the lines of "No, I don't really want to play tonight" etc. and of how that is exhibiting an un-submissive attitude from the sub. Anyway... thanks for all your insight so far, I've enjoyed reading your posts.

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(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 3:07:57 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Just curious to all those with the "no" means "NO!" mantra. Or "no, stop, don't" etc.... I mean, this is a D/s site afterall and I can't be the only Dom whose heard a sub crying/moaning "no/stop/don't" at the height of pleasure/pain passion while knowing damned well she's having a great time.

Focus.


Its why during play my safe word is read.... or two fingers/a two tap system

However both times Ive had to say no to my partner it was not during a scene, and a girl with her arms crossed against her chest, tears in her eyes and complete venom in her voice is a lot different then the purring moaning please please please of a girl in sub space.


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 3:57:08 PM   
kdsusa7894


Posts: 193
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Focus - sounds like a great way to make sure your partner is safe.

_____________________________

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(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 4:00:11 PM   
CerVeza


Posts: 156
Joined: 10/13/2010
Status: offline 		If I were to hear NO, I would totally stop. I mean TOTALLY. I'm not going to play games with what no means.

(in reply to kdsusa7894)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 5:09:32 PM   
ThePeripatetic


Posts: 139
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		There have been a number of times during play where I'm screaming bloody murder, cussing up a storm and most likely repeatedly saying "No, no, no..." and my sadistic Mistress is having an absolute riot! Specific examples I can think of have involved tickling or wax play. Obviously with this kind of play I'm under no threat of being seriously hurt. But when this happens in public play, any passerby would swear I'm being flayed alive. I don't truly expect my Mistress to stop and I damn well know that She has no intention of backing off, and that She's having a blast watching me squirm. I'm sure this dynamic is played out in different ways with various D/s couples. Hence the reason for a safeword.

So i agree with Focus, there are times during play when "no" doesnt mean "NO!" This is obviously an element that needs to be sorted out between partners. The original idea I had in mind when I posted was more of the sub saying "You know, I don't really feel like playing right now". Could be for reasons such as stress, exhaustion from work, etc. Anyway, there have been some really good responses to this end, I've enjoyed the discussion and I thank everyone for contributing!

_____________________________

"The Journey is the Destination" - Dan Eldon (One of my heroes. R.I.P.)

(in reply to CerVeza)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/3/2011 8:24:04 PM   
MistressMadlynn


Posts: 6
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuperMaleSlave

New slave here on this site.............

When I say no I expect all D/s play to stop immediatley.
I would frankly have any Domme arrested for assault and battery charges if play did not stop.

No means no - ignore it and face time in prison.


Just the kind of slave I want! Hey big boy ... write me soon!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to SuperMaleSlave)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 2:19:48 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

..... and a girl with her arms crossed against her chest, tears in her eyes and complete venom in her voice is a lot different then the purring moaning please please please of a girl in sub space.


Lol, I got all that from your little portly penguin - and he's not doing any of those things....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 2:40:29 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic

And this idea of "no" meaning "NO!" during actual play is not exactly what I had in mind when I asked the question.


Yeah, I realise that.... It's just that the other (blanket "no" means "NO!") has come up several times now and it just sounds like such a vanilla-esque standard for this site and lifestyle....

To me, the agreed safeword is what means "NO!" (and "STOP" and "DON"T" etc) during play and outside is pretty much covered by my earlier posts and those of many others.

I just can't contemplate how any dom/me can function (or even call themself the dom/me) if everything comes to a shuddering halt everytime the sub plays the "no" card.

Cues CerVeza....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to ThePeripatetic)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 6:05:27 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


Yeah, I realise that.... It's just that the other (blanket "no" means "NO!") has come up several times now and it just sounds like such a vanilla-esque standard for this site and lifestyle....

To me, the agreed safeword is what means "NO!" (and "STOP" and "DON"T" etc) during play and outside is pretty much covered by my earlier posts and those of many others.

I just can't contemplate how any dom/me can function (or even call themself the dom/me) if everything comes to a shuddering halt everytime the sub plays the "no" card.

Cues CerVeza....

Focus.


As I said before, if you're getting to know somebody, possibly not even an issue but if somebody you are just getting to know might react so strongly with a NO, I would assume they have reasons and I am touching on a very sore point, something in their past they haven't shared with, something they have trouble communicating...

Pretty hard to make a blanket statement without really being into that situation, knowing the people involved, the expression on their face....

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 6:14:36 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lol, I got all that from your little portly penguin - and he's not doing any of those things....

Focus.


http://www.gamesville.com/html_downloads/pokePenguin.php << explanation of the penguin... Ahh the memories of passing time through classes.....


_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 6:53:19 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I just can't contemplate how any dom/me can function (or even call themself the dom/me) if everything comes to a shuddering halt everytime the sub plays the "no" card.



Too right. I want to be able to say 'no', 'NO!' and perhaps even the occasional 'You fucking evil bitch!' without her going all sensitive and concerned on me. 

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 7:18:36 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic

There have been a number of times during play where I'm screaming bloody murder, cussing up a storm and most likely repeatedly saying "No, no, no..." and my sadistic Mistress is having an absolute riot! Specific examples I can think of have involved tickling or wax play. Obviously with this kind of play I'm under no threat of being seriously hurt. But when this happens in public play, any passerby would swear I'm being flayed alive. I don't truly expect my Mistress to stop and I damn well know that She has no intention of backing off, and that She's having a blast watching me squirm. I'm sure this dynamic is played out in different ways with various D/s couples. Hence the reason for a safeword.

So i agree with Focus, there are times during play when "no" doesnt mean "NO!" This is obviously an element that needs to be sorted out between partners. The original idea I had in mind when I posted was more of the sub saying "You know, I don't really feel like playing right now". Could be for reasons such as stress, exhaustion from work, etc. Anyway, there have been some really good responses to this end, I've enjoyed the discussion and I thank everyone for contributing!

Exactly.  Part of this is why most folks have adopted safewords in the first place.  The simple fact that some folks say 'no' or 'stop' or whatever that adds to the fun of the scene.  Resistance play, take downs, tickle torture.........  I could go on an on here.

I don't call the end of a scene just because I hear 'no'.  It might be exactly what I'm going for.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 7:18:39 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Too right. I want to be able to say 'no', 'NO!' and perhaps even the occasional 'You fucking evil bitch!' without her going all sensitive and concerned on me. 


Uhm Peon, but there is that pesky little thing called building up trust, so if you really mean no, as in "No, right now I can't play" and somebody just steamrolls over you, it might have an impact on the relationship.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 8:55:45 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Uhm Peon, but there is that pesky little thing called building up trust, so if you really mean no, as in "No, right now I can't play" and somebody just steamrolls over you, it might have an impact on the relationship.


I know.  I'm sure that D and s will get tuned into one another as time goes on.  I'm only really thinking of the beginning stages.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 10:24:03 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

quote:

I think whoever is topping him is the slave!


Of course they are! Read his profile; I think he's attempting to 'make a funny' here, just as he is in his profile narrative. Except...it's not funny.


I thought it was HYSTERICAL!

SuperMaleSlave

Ultra submissive male slave seeking 24/7 female owner. My quest is serious - please respond with serious inquires.

Before you inquire please read my requirement list below.

Requirements for Contacting the slave:

01) No overweight Dommes. (No "BBW's). (Please be size 2 or less).

02) No Dommes over 25 years in age.

03) No Dommes who are married or have been married.

04) No Dommes with children or seek children in their future.

05) No Dommes who are not fully employed in a vanilla based profession.

06) No Dommes who earn under $125,000 per year (pre-tax).

07) No Dommes who do not own a private home in a warm weather climate.

08) No Dommes who would require me (the slave) to have outside employment.

09) No Dommes who are not capable of providing health insureance for me (the slave).

10) No Dommes who cannot provide me (the slave) with my own new car to use.

11) No Dommes with bad attitudes or demanding personalites (i.e. no bitches).

12) No Dommes who cannot cook. (Cooking is not a microwaved hot dog on a plate).

13) No Dommes who are not willing to carry a fair portion of the housework.

14) No Dommes who are not accomodating to my sexual needs. (No Frigid Women).

I look forward to become a true slave who will serve you until the end of time.

Thank You

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: When a sub says "No" - 1/4/2011 10:37:03 AM   
subinlife


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuperMaleSlave

New slave here on this site.............

When I say no I expect all D/s play to stop immediatley.
I would frankly have any Domme arrested for assault and battery charges if play did not stop.

No means no - ignore it and face time in prison.


Checked your profile, have to ask. What planet are you living on?

< Message edited by subinlife -- 1/4/2011 10:50:47 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 100
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