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RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 5:46:08 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
So You wish us to take our valuable time, energy and information for the new posters when they wont offer the same by reading the FAQs?

I have to say I have no issue with someone not reading an FAQ*.

So long as, if they then ask a fucking obvious, daft question, that's been repeated a thousand times before, it's ok for me to make a joke about it.

*the problem with FAQs is often that, if they contain any meaningful level of detail concerning an even halfway complex subject (and let’s face it, BDSM is a pretty all-encompassing term for a huge number of potentially somewhat complex activities), then the FAQs end up being longer than War & Peace. Give people posting & netiquette notes, in brief, point em at an area clearly labelled "daft newbie questions here", then let em loose.

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 5:53:16 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
So You wish us to take our valuable time, energy and information for the new posters when they wont offer the same by reading the FAQs?

I have to say I have no issue with someone not reading an FAQ*.

So long as, if they then ask a fucking obvious, daft question, that's been repeated a thousand times before, it's ok for me to make a joke about it.



Pretty much. I didn't read them when I joined, I particularly think people have to or need to. They just need to listen and go "Oops, sorry" when someone corrects them.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 6:10:20 PM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Back to the point I have been trying to make. For the newbies who do join CM and are looking for information, we can help guide them in the right direction. When they first join they are not going to sit down an read all the FAQs right off. They are looking to interact with people currently in the lifestyle. So they are going to naturally start asking questions either via an email, pm or a forum post. Many do not know netiquitte yet and they are going to ask some stupid questions. We do not have to be mean to those people. We can gently nudge them in the right direction. We will always get the HNG's but they will disappear quickly when they do not get the instant sex they are looling for. So I am suggesting we can be a little more tolerant of those new people joining the site and we do not have to cut them down when they ask a wrong question.


My most recent "nudge"

mummyman, I understand what you're saying and for the most part, I agree.

That being said...I've made more than a few poor book choices, bought a poorly made flogger more than once, drove for an hour to get to my first munch which I found thanks to Google and fumbled/stumbled my way around CM and CollarChat.

For the most part, people were friendly and quite helpful and tolerant when I first started posting on the boards. Trial and error...sometimes it's the best way to learn.

It also bothers me when I read a thread where a simple question has been asked (sometimes lacking an important bit of information, mind you, that could help to clarify the topic) only to be ridiculed and laughed at. In fact, I've started more than a few threads only to have them go this way.

Trial and error....I learned from my mistakes (or lack of clarification) and continued on.

In my first post on this thread, I suggested the OP, if she wanted things to be different here, be the change she wanted to see. I try to remember that when I post. I don't always succeed but I don't stop trying.

My point to all this is....I'm here to interact with adults, not coddle and spoon-feed children. I believe strongly in civility and etiquette/netiquette all the while keeping in mind that I'm not perfect (practically, mind you, but not 100%) and I'm full of all the quirks and foibles that being human entails.

I don't expect perfection from every newcomer. I do, however, expect them to carry their own weight and put as much effort into learning as I did...and still do.

(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 6:20:43 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

In my first post on this thread, I suggested the OP, if she wanted things to be different here, be the change she wanted to see. I try to remember that when I post. I don't always succeed but I don't stop trying.



I would like to quote this for truth.

There are certain people on the boards that I try to emulate because they are kind and wise. I don't always succeed but I do try. While I am not going to link to any point where I've done, I do question people - including those I'm friendly with - when I think they are being too harsh, too cruel, or painting people with too wide a brush.

I have seen a lot of these threads over the years. In my experience, usually made by people who have attacked others and felt the sting of the backlash too great for them. Because of that I've come to dismiss them overall, that combined with the fact that CM never promises to be a safe place and there are so many that do that I simply can't fathom why a person simply doesn't just find a site more suited to them.

I tend to feel that all the time a person spends complaining about how everyone acts on this site would be much better spent asking someone why they said what they said. Many times I have seen people here go "You know what, you're right. That was out of line" or "You're right, I missed that information. Apologies to the OP".

I firmly believe that actually does something.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 6:20:56 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
I have to say I have no issue with someone not reading an FAQ*.

So long as, if they then ask a fucking obvious, daft question, that's been repeated a thousand times before, it's ok for me to make a joke about it.

Lots of truth in this.  People can't expect Me to get, oh so excited, about some question that, if they had ever spent on day participating in wiitwd, they wouldn't have to ask.  Tons of people have asked it, answered it, written about it, published it in books, etc, etc, etc.

Also, it's worth mentioning here that this is CM.  Not some online version of AA where the newcomer is the most important person in the room and the first day sober (kinky) has the most value.  Some of us folks who have been doing it for a while honestly don't come here to cater to anyone.  We're here for our own reasons and not so we can all put a stop to that just because somebody new shows up.

Yes, it's great to be nice to people and all, but the truth is, if not one more single person got involved in wiitwd, it wouldn't effect My life.  I've got enough there that I have the potential to be kept busy playing with people, learning new techniques, etc, etc for the rest of My days.  The 'new blood' that signs up on a website just isn't going to have the same importance to the 'new blood' that hits My local munch group.  In My opinion, the latter is a better use of My time.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 7:00:05 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		That's a point, LP. There's a group on Fetlife which is specifically designed for new people to ask stupid questions. Collarme? Not that group. Not aiming to be that group, not pretending to be that group. If people wish to ask those questions they should take a look around and see if this is the appropriate venue (and decide that it isn't, and keep looking until they find that fet group).

It's really, really, really not difficult to spend a little while lurking and work out the tone of the place. It's not like we bury the trainwrecks.

There's no hazing as long as you behave with some decorum and have a sense of humour. I don't have sympathy for people who can't manage that.


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Sthetic on FetLife.




(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 7:56:38 PM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline 		I began my search into where I belong (why I felt suffocated in "normal" relationships, who I am, and why guys were randomly asking to be my slave on my very vanilla yahoo chats), at alt dot com.   I was immediately freaked out, and had to back off, rethink things, because I certainly wasn't interested in being common fresh meat, who played a role.

Than I don't recall how I found collarme, but it immediately made me think "relationship goal."    I began reading the forums, was intimidated, gathered my courage, and began posting.   I got my arse kicked, ridiculed, frustrated, but I learned a hell of a lot here, and for all the "what I considered abusive gangish behavior I noticed," I still felt it was more beneficial to me, than any other site.   Sometimes, life gets busy, the cliques annoy me, I cannot handle the intensity, and high school drama here, I take off.   I have never divorced collarme, because it's where I found my footing, and real people, who held my hand, when I was too scared to go anywhere.

I'm not going to encourage you to stay, if things on these boards get under your skin, and you are unable to disconnect, and have a support system outside of here; but if you do have a support system, and can shut off the computer at those times this becomes personal, you may learn a lot, and get comfortable with this site in time.   
Good luck,    M


_____________________________

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"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to anniezz338)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/6/2011 10:13:50 PM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I'm a newb, and I think this is a good place for me to be. I've met some great folks here. I find so much of people's input to be valuable in so many ways. Ok, so everybody doesn't love everybody else here.  Who says they have to? Some of the most interesting insight I've developed is from disagreement.  I'm learning a lot.  I learn from my local community as well. The day I stop learning is the day they close the lid.

I've noticed that people here will definitely assist a newbie. People have helped me out quite a bit. Thank you, I appreciate it.


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"Dodging bullets since 2010"

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/7/2011 11:01:41 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		I think it was in my second post here on CM I asked why people felt it was necessary to attack other posters.

Now almost 3 and a half years in, I will say I sometimes get sucked into anti-troll threads but in general, I truly suck at snark. I have actually tried and either I will go back and apologise to the person or the person will thank me for being nice.

More than once I have been chastised for being "too nice".

I am guilty as charged.

Many of my response to posters never make it to the forums. I don't want my opinions to become a distaction and so I offer it in a PM.
Or I will provide more detailed information via a PM as well.
I have also discovered that I get more information and often hear more about that ellusive "other side" that is so often missing and my 'conversations'. are often vastly different than the discussions here on the board, simply because instead of making an assumption or 3, I go and ask.

I try to lead with compassion here as I do elsewhere. The day I stop doing that is the day I will likely hang it up.

Do I have something to offer?

Is it true (to the best of my knowledge)?

Is it kind?

Those are usually the guidelines I personally follow when I post.

I have learned so much being here on CM and have personally gained so much.
So despite the drawbacks, I do think this is overall a good place.

I struggle a bit because in my idealistic world everyone would always be nice to one another (and of course there wouldn't be wars or hunger, cancer or poverty).

I am grateful for the generosity of the people who share their wisdom and knowledge.

And most especially for the people who warm me.

edit: for general clean-up

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 1/7/2011 11:05:01 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/7/2011 2:52:05 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

But is this a group or a public forum?

It's both.


quote:

Is this a public forum or is this a group with specific outlooks regarding the BDSM lifestyle?

It's both.
quote:

 
Is CM really good for newcomers?

It is and it isn't.

I avoided this thread when I read it.  Mainly because the OP had already seememd to have vanished.  Secondly, because it turned into what it was talking about.  And mostly because there is no right answer.

All I know is that having contributed to MrFirms longevity thread and realising how freaking long I had been here, and that we haven't been around as much recently for various reason and reading the snarkfests that I have today (and yes, par-taking in them) I came to realise a few things.

Y'all are ga-ga.  I mean that in the nicest way and include myself too.
We all judge each other - deal with it.  But don't think that just because you believe you have a right to hammer some new poster because you dont have to be 'nice' and they don't fit your unrealistic expectations on how someone is supposed to post or behave -  that they can't be permitted nor expected to hammer back.

Not everyone is going to read the faqs, nor do they have to.  Yanno that whole, I aint your submissive POV that everyone keeps harping on about?  Again deal with it! Please - don't say that people have to read a freaking faq just because you(generic) don't have precious time to 'waste'... or somesuch remarks.

People ARE clique-y - I don't care what anyone denies.  But cliques ROCK.  It means you have friends and that you have found people who think you rock.  And that witch hunts will happen and DO.  And sometimes people who have morphed into so called regulars might argue with you... deal with it.
Ah Mr Merc, you left us all alone and abandoned, but as I have often quoted him in saying... cliques are just a group of friends that aren't your own... it's not automatically a bad thing.

On a side note, in the 'old days'... people were blunt and to the point but the arguements and discussion were very much more, without taking sides.  I don't think that the 'meaness' as some people call it has got any worse, but I do see a sheep mentality more in the way that people seem afraid to offend someone who they consider a real friend because they have met them in real life and don't want to upset the possibility of that invite across state or sea which means a free trip.  So call me a cynic.

Yeah and I hate the word 'nice'.





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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to anniezz338)
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RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/7/2011 8:12:00 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

our valuable time, energy and information


If you are going to engage someone, being valuable is a good thing.

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 3:47:36 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc




People ARE clique-y - I don't care what anyone denies.  But cliques ROCK.  It means you have friends and that you have found people who think you rock.  And that witch hunts will happen and DO.  And sometimes people who have morphed into so called regulars might argue with you... deal with it.
Ah Mr Merc, you left us all alone and abandoned, but as I have often quoted him in saying... cliques are just a group of friends that aren't your own... it's not automatically a bad thing.

On a side note, in the 'old days'... people were blunt and to the point but the arguements and discussion were very much more, without taking sides.  I don't think that the 'meaness' as some people call it has got any worse, but I do see a sheep mentality more in the way that people seem afraid to offend someone who they consider a real friend because they have met them in real life and don't want to upset the possibility of that invite across state or sea which means a free trip.  So call me a cynic.

Yeah and I hate the word 'nice'.



Hi RCdc

I think cliques rock if your in one. I think there are good cliques and bad cliques and I think you often aren't aware that your actually part of a clique. People are certainly braver when in a clique.
I agree with what you say about people being afraid to speak their mind to someone they have met.
Merc and me had some real heated discussions and disagreements on the boards even though we happen to like each other and got on well in rl. Where the hell are they btw? I miss them :(


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(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 4:17:05 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		The biggest problem with the cliques here is that the Mods encourage them by failing to intervene in any sensible way when things turn ugly. There's a lot of bullying goes on. CM isn't a lot of good for newcomers, or for anyone else outside the cliques. Criticism is never welcome. Watch the trolls pile on.

I'm out of here. 

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 4:35:07 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Free sites support themselves by advertising, you know, those banners on the right hand side of your inbox that you ignore? I clicked on an ad or two when I first joined, and now ignore them - they no longer register. As this holds true for viewing populations, newbies are the largest source of ad revenue.

While forum participants have no vested interest in the retention of new members, the site owners do. I wonder if they've done any retention studies, and what the correlation is between attempting to participate in the forums and dropping out.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 4:38:01 AM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
Joined: 5/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

The biggest problem with the cliques here is that the Mods encourage them by failing to intervene in any sensible way when things turn ugly. There's a lot of bullying goes on. CM isn't a lot of good for newcomers, or for anyone else outside the cliques. Criticism is never welcome. Watch the trolls pile on.

I'm out of here. 



+1

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 5:21:46 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		the number one mistake people make when they're new to the lifestyle, is to expect that the people involved in it are going to be better than the ones not involved. it doesn't make sense to assume that because, no matter what, kinky or not, they're still PEOPLE.
when i first came to CM a couple of years ago (twas under a different screen name), i was new. I was in my first D/s relationship and was looking for a place to reach out and chat and ask questions. i liked collarme's forums better than bondage.com (and now i think Fetlife is the best of them all), but i was also shocked at some of the attitudes and behavior i found here. The cliquey-ness, derailing, attacking people with different opinions, etc. all bugged me to high heaven -- but i also DID find a place to reach out and chat. Not everyone on CM engages in petty behavior, just like in real life.

But people form cliques in real life. People judge others for their opinions in real life. People are narrow-minded, snarky, rude, bitchy, "holier-than-thou," ignorant, and downright mean in real life. These are all the same people you meet in the street, just online and with a few different "hobbies." There is no reason whatsoever to expect that people in the lifestyle are more accepting, more tolerant, more open-minded, more friendly -- it's an understandable assumption, though.

If you want to participate in the forums, as with life, show others what YOU want to see. "be the change you want to see in the world," to quote Ghandi. =p hahaha
i try really hard NOT to snark at people (sometimes i do, i won't lie =p) both here and in real life, because people get enough snark in their lives -- who am i to think that my snark is any more special than what they've undoubtedly already got (or will get)? Take the good, ignore the bad. Present an "alternative user experience." =p Go on with your life.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 1/8/2011 5:22:59 AM >

(in reply to Capndependable)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 5:33:47 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Free sites support themselves by advertising, you know, those banners on the right hand side of your inbox that you ignore? I clicked on an ad or two when I first joined, and now ignore them - they no longer register. As this holds true for viewing populations, newbies are the largest source of ad revenue.

While forum participants have no vested interest in the retention of new members, the site owners do. I wonder if they've done any retention studies, and what the correlation is between attempting to participate in the forums and dropping out.



To me, you are new here. Without doing a head count, over 70% of the people participating today were not here when I joined. There must be some retention. Besides, your argument is flawed....... if indeed one becomes immune to the adds after a short time, then retention would not matter to the sites owners now would it?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 5:37:56 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

The biggest problem with the cliques here is that the Mods encourage them by failing to intervene in any sensible way when things turn ugly. There's a lot of bullying goes on. CM isn't a lot of good for newcomers, or for anyone else outside the cliques. Criticism is never welcome. Watch the trolls pile on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XggjVo3j-o

Having experienced the previous Moderation regime, which was heavy-handed as hell, I applaud the changes to CM, in terms of Moderators allowing more robust contributions. In my experience, on those rare occasions that degree of "piling on" does occur, it's usually other CM'ers who speak up against it.

What does seem to happen is a few folk who seem to lack basic social skills do tend to pitch a hizzy fit when their aggressive or clueless comments aren't accepted as "wisdom" by others, or when others won’t see their POV, and instead of just leaving it and accepting that varying people will tend to have varying opinions they then play the “I'm being bullied!” card and from there it’s a short step to Teddy leaving the pram. Boo fucking hoo.

Then there’s the political or social tone of some sections of a forum. As an example, getting anything remotely resembling a rational debate from most of the regular contributors to the Political & religious sections on CM seems a Sisyphean task. So I generally don't bother with that section. Is my life ruined beyond all measure as a result? Oddly no; I seem to have survived without major psychological harm being done.

BTW the “it’s all so cliquey!” whine is one you hear all over the net, from UseNet to forums to social sites and beyond. I've never seen a forum with an even halfway decent throughput, and where some members had met other members IRL, or struck up friendships and correspondences, that wasn't accused of it at some point. In almost every case those railing against the “clique” came across as rather sad social inadequates.

The net doesn't fix what's wrong with you – if anything it exacerbates it. If you're a whiny little saddo in life then you'll most likely be one online too, only more so.

(in reply to TotalDiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 5:44:05 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

To me, you are new here. Without doing a head count, over 70% of the people participating today were not here when I joined. There must be some retention. Besides, your argument is flawed....... if indeed one becomes immune to the adds after a short time, then retention would not matter to the sites owners now would it?



There's a sweet spot for milking ad revenue from new members, which is hard to quantify, as it varies per site, niche, and frequency of ad rotation. But generally, it is longer than days and shorter than months.



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 1/8/2011 5:46:44 AM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Is CM really good for newcomers? - 1/8/2011 5:46:49 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

The biggest problem with the cliques here is that the Mods encourage them by failing to intervene in any sensible way when things turn ugly. There's a lot of bullying goes on. CM isn't a lot of good for newcomers, or for anyone else outside the cliques. Criticism is never welcome. Watch the trolls pile on.

I'm out of here. 

See, 'being out of here' doesn't help the situation though.  I can understand why you might want to and I couldn't stop you.

I think that it does cut both ways though in the sense that if you(generic) are subjected to what you call bullying, then you have the ability to rise above it.

I am (probably) one of the 'annoying' people who think that ganging up on a newbie sucks and I have said so - cripes I did it twice yesterday(regardless if the newbie is thought of as a troll or not).  And it pisses people off and then you are labelled a 'saviour' or that you want everyone to be 'nice'.  If it was Master or some other bloke doing it - you can bet high that they would be labelled a 'white knight' in a disparaging way.

But then, it could be seen that I am being bullied.  But that's not the case really, not IMO.  But to others, it might seem that way.  It's all pretty much subjective.



_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 180
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