RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (Full Version)

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cuckoldmepls -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 11:54:53 AM)

I said they could. Hitler certainly would have done it, if we hadn't of saved your asses. And Muslims may do it in the future if you don't profess your faith to Islam.




lovmuffin -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 11:56:31 AM)


[/quote]

Then let me elaborate.

I'm not saying that this guy was conservative or liberal, but it was obviously politically motivated in some way.

And what I'm saying is the root cause of the problem is the inflammatory rhetoric that comes primarily from conservative talk shows.

When you have someone on the edge it only takes a little nudge to push them over.

Having read the whole thread for my posts, as you claim, I would have thought my position was obvious.

So either I'm not expressing myself well or you are not understanding what I have been saying. 

[/quote]


It seems your definition of inflammatory rhetoric is speech coming from those on the right who appose big government, astronomical deficit spending, inflation, government waste and all the rest of it. I sure would like to know when any of the talk show hosts have advocated violence. Can you provide any quotes ?  Others would say inflammatory rhetoric comes from Obama Pelosi, and Reid advocating their brand of socialism. I guess its ok to advocate for the left but if you advocate for the right then its inflammatory rhetoric. One could argue the root cause of the problem is Hollywood. I mean with all the slasher flicks so popular with young people these days it makes you wonder where this lunatic got some of his inspiration. I have a theory that he was really into that video game "Grand Theft Auto" and got some of his bright ideas from that. It seems this guy was all over the map politically though he has been described as a leftist by those who knew him. Who knows what if anything specific drove him to it but the fact is he is a raving mad lunatic.  It is literally ghoulish to try and make hay out of a tragedy such as this in order to smear those who are apposed to your political point of view.  




Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:00:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

I said they could. Hitler certainly would have done it, if we hadn't of saved your asses. And Muslims may do it in the future if you don't profess your faith to Islam.

HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHmoronAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH
thankyou for your soul searching and immenseley thoughtful post
Carry on






rulemylife -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:00:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

THe Beck has spoken
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201101100011

is there one word of the whole thing that rings as true?
after all his diatribes? her "dont retreat, reload?"
Can you imagine the field day that would have been had  if the shooter had been an *eeebil moooslem*

I just read this page too so that could be something to do with it
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline.



Your second link wouldn't come up for me but the first was enough.

Beck and Palin, two hypocritical assholes who have been inciting violence now claim they are lovers of peace and God is the answer.

This clip is a little long but it's worth watching the whole thing.

Somewhat prophetic too as it was from almost a year ago. 



Glenn Beck Inciting Violence w/ Blatant Lies ...




philosophy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:09:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Free men own guns, slaves don't. In England they could line you people up and execute you one by one, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.



..........apparently, in Tucson Arizona, 22year old people get to line up and execute a bunch of people too.

This whole sorry episode is nothing to do with gun control. It's to do with the ramping up of the political rhetoric. Political opponents, from both sides of the spectrum, use the language and imagery of violence to make their point.

Thus the political process becomes one in which violence is seen as a sad but inevitable consequence....which is unacceptable.




Kirata -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:09:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

how about you mosey on over to the parents of the kid that was killed, you know the kid that was born on 9/11. Then you look them in the eye and tell them that their daughters murder is a price for freedom that you're apparently happy to pay.

Let me know how that goes.

Let me know when you get over your mind-reading fantasy.

"We don't need any more restrictions in our society... If maybe the gunman had some friends and family around him prior to this, this wouldn't have happened... I think there's always going to be random acts... but our family believes there is a lot of good people out there... If we live in a country like the United States where we're freer than anyone else, we're subject to things like this happening... and that's the price we have to pay."

K.




Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:12:01 PM)

sorry ...i added a  period at the end
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline
my bad...its a site to stop gun violence... going back to july 2008
and not just aimed at right or left, but mostly ...gun violence and  anti govmnt  wankers
lots of glen beck references in there

If he had sung give peace a chance, it couldnt have been any more despicable




philosophy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:27:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

how about you mosey on over to the parents of the kid that was killed, you know the kid that was born on 9/11. Then you look them in the eye and tell them that their daughters murder is a price for freedom that you're apparently happy to pay.

Let me know how that goes.

Let me know when you get over your mind-reading fantasy.

"We don't need any more restrictions in our society... If maybe the gunman had some friends and family around him prior to this, this wouldn't have happened... I think there's always going to be random acts... but our family believes there is a lot of good people out there... If we live in a country like the United States where we're freer than anyone else, we're subject to things like this happening... and that's the price we have to pay."

K.




......good grief.

You're all fucked. A daughter is murdered and a parent apparently considers it a reasonable price to pay for the right to carry guns.

The pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. You may as well drop the life and happiness bits. You only care about your so called liberty.




rulemylife -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:29:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


It seems your definition of inflammatory rhetoric is speech coming from those on the right who appose big government, astronomical deficit spending, inflation, government waste and all the rest of it. I sure would like to know when any of the talk show hosts have advocated violence. Can you provide any quotes ?  Others would say inflammatory rhetoric comes from Obama Pelosi, and Reid advocating their brand of socialism. I guess its ok to advocate for the left but if you advocate for the right then its inflammatory rhetoric. 



Reading the entire thread would help.

I understand that may be too challenging for you so let me re-post what I quoted earlier.


quote:



Yes, facts are facts.  This is just a small sample of those facts.  I can spend all day posting these types of quotes from conservative talk shows.

Conservative talk show host arrested

Prosecutors say Hal Turner allegedly posted the threatening Internet messages on June 2. They say the 47-year-old declared his “outrage” over a decision by the three judges in upholding bans on handguns in Chicago and suburban Oak Park.


They quoted Turner’s posting as saying: “Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed.”


Hate fills the airwaves | USA Today

Clinton consistently refused to defend the right to air "some of the things some of these more extreme talk show hosts have said."

Specifically, he objected to a number of G. Gordon Liddy's remarks.

Liddy, who broadcasts over WJFK-FM in Fairfax, Va., admitted he used handmade drawings of the President and his wife for target practice and discussed shooting Federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in the head and groin "in legally justified self-defense."


Michael Savage (commentator)

On April 17, 2006, he said of Muslims "They say, 'Oh, there's a billion of them.' I said, 'So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them.' I mean, would you rather die—would you rather us die than them?









Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:48:44 PM)

Snorts I just read Rush's take on the left /right issues
He says in so many words
Sarah, the teaparty, Sharon Angle and Beck have nothing to do with the violence and slaughter over the weeekend
instead
Laughner didnt have god in his life
the guy listened to heavy metal=anarchist=insane
no evidence to suggest he watched news, listened to talk radio or went to sarahs facebook
no evidence he saw the crosshairs website
Rush blames the parents  for a 22 year old MAN
asks why didnt  anyone try to institutionalize him for marijuana
(oxycontin? anyone?)
Sherriff is covering his butt
Sherriff is a anti conservative
Why is there no lefty safety net for people like Loughner
This is Obamas Oklahoma"
Lefties are criminalizzing speech???
says all leftties love rap, hypocrites to violence


Talking points to be heard on this website soon no doubt.
Ive linked for the transcript and full details





rulemylife -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 12:59:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
When all the people have made their choice, that IS the country as a whole's decision.

We call it democracy.


Is that what's it called?

I'll have to look into that.

Thanks for the tip.




LaTigresse -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:07:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

This whole sorry episode is nothing to do with gun control. It's to do with the ramping up of the political rhetoric. Political opponents, from both sides of the spectrum, use the language and imagery of violence to make their point.

Thus the political process becomes one in which violence is seen as a sad but inevitable consequence....which is unacceptable.


My point, pages back, exactly.

(nice to see you back again Phil!)




philosophy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:09:18 PM)

Good to see you too La T :)

...and your number 5.....




jlf1961 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:17:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Tazzy's post above bother me A LOT.  All five charges relate to Loughner shooting fed employees.  Nothing about him shooting the others, including the nine year old girl.  Anyone know why this is the case?  Is it because these are federal charges, and charges relating to the others are filed at another level?



The only part of the incident that the Federal Courts have jurisdiction is those on the Judge, the Congresswoman and her staffers, all others will be at the state level.




rulemylife -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:28:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Actually, I would say you are right only in Panda's use of the general "we".  A majority of voters are content with the decision to allow a culture in which the citizens have the right to keep and bear arms.  That results in some occasions like this nutcase over the weekend.  The price of freedom...


Considering that no one has ever voted on it, I have to wonder how you determined the majority are content with it.

quote:


As for your earlier assertion re:  this being due to the inflammatory rhetoric of right-wing conservatives?  See my post regarding that...and listen to anyone with sense.  Free speech is just that...free speech.  While I may not like what Hillary or Obama or Olbermann or Michael Moore have to say, as long as they are not inciting left-wing riots they have a right to say it.  Ward Churchill, with his call to take to the streets, may be a different case.  I don't agree with all that Beck or Limbaugh or G. Will have to say either, but as long as they are not encouraging violence...and don't run through that tired bullshit about Palin's crosshairs, please...they have a right to say it.  This nut was responsible for his own actions...and given that his favorite reading material, as reported by various folks in the mass media, seemed to be centered around the Communist Manifesto and one of his favorite activities appeared to be smoking pot, the argument could be made that he is more left than right.  From there, it would be just as easy to cite "leftist" sources for his dissatisfaction with a "progressive" who did not stand far enough to the left...and it would be a wrong citation. 


I don't even know where to begin with this.

Okay, let's start here:

"....and one of his favorite activities appeared to be smoking pot, the argument could be made that he is more left than right."


Soooooooooooo...........................conservatives don't smoke weed?  Is that what you really want to argue?

But let's move on to the more interesting parts of your post.

On one hand you are defending the right to free speech, which I agree with.

But on the other hand you are trying to deny that people are influenced by what they hear.

And yes,  regarding what Palin said, while not directly encouraging violence, it is not hard to see how someone who is mentally unstable to begin with would take this as encouragement.


Dem lawmaker takes exception with Palin 'reload' comment


Palin tweeted Tuesday about the passage of the healthcare reform bill into law:Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.






lovmuffin -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:28:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


It seems your definition of inflammatory rhetoric is speech coming from those on the right who appose big government, astronomical deficit spending, inflation, government waste and all the rest of it. I sure would like to know when any of the talk show hosts have advocated violence. Can you provide any quotes ?  Others would say inflammatory rhetoric comes from Obama Pelosi, and Reid advocating their brand of socialism. I guess its ok to advocate for the left but if you advocate for the right then its inflammatory rhetoric. 



Reading the entire thread would help.

I understand that may be too challenging for you so let me re-post what I quoted earlier.


quote:



Yes, facts are facts.  This is just a small sample of those facts.  I can spend all day posting these types of quotes from conservative talk shows.

Conservative talk show host arrested

Prosecutors say Hal Turner allegedly posted the threatening Internet messages on June 2. They say the 47-year-old declared his “outrage” over a decision by the three judges in upholding bans on handguns in Chicago and suburban Oak Park.


They quoted Turner’s posting as saying: “Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed.”


Hate fills the airwaves | USA Today

Clinton consistently refused to defend the right to air "some of the things some of these more extreme talk show hosts have said."

Specifically, he objected to a number of G. Gordon Liddy's remarks.

Liddy, who broadcasts over WJFK-FM in Fairfax, Va., admitted he used handmade drawings of the President and his wife for target practice and discussed shooting Federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in the head and groin "in legally justified self-defense."


Michael Savage (commentator)

On April 17, 2006, he said of Muslims "They say, 'Oh, there's a billion of them.' I said, 'So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them.' I mean, would you rather die—would you rather us die than them?










I guess you didn't get my point. There is plenty of rhetoric to go around from both sides of the political spectrum but to associate this idiot with talk show hosts is absurd and its ghoulish to try and make hay out of it, though predictable. I could spend all day quoting inflammatory rhetoric from the left as you could from the right, but its immaterial other than to illistrate the hypocrisy. I could argue that leftist rhetoric is responsible for what happened but that would be equally absurd. The guy is a lunatic. To quote Rush, "There is no evidence that he listened to talk radio. There is no evidence he listened to Fox News. There is no evidence that he saw Sarah Palin's Facebook page. No evidence he saw her lame website with the crosshairs." I'm sure we will find out more as time goes on but I'm not buying into any of that talk show association crap you're trying to peddle.




Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 1:30:13 PM)

the first..of many
Ditto




Moonhead -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 2:35:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Liberal Smear Machine Backfires After Gunman Found To Be Occultist, Pot-Smoking Left Winger A full scale demonization campaign against conservatives, free speech and the Second Amendment on behalf of Democrats and the establishment media in the wake of Saturday’s shootings has sensationally backfired after it emerged that gunman Jared Lee Loughner was a left-wing, pot-smoking liberal who was into dressing like the grim reaper and dabbling in the occult.

So Anton LaVey was a socialist then?
All occultists are lefties, are they?




mnottertail -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 2:36:12 PM)

I think he was talking about eye doctors.

Anton LaVey




Moonhead -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 2:45:07 PM)

[:D]
Don't they tend to the right as well? I know there's that opthalmist who's a big deal in the teabagging party...




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