RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 2:52:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I guess you didn't get my point. There is plenty of rhetoric to go around from both sides of the political spectrum but to associate this idiot with talk show hosts is absurd and its ghoulish to try and make hay out of it, though predictable. I could spend all day quoting inflammatory rhetoric from the left as you could from the right, but its immaterial other than to illistrate the hypocrisy. I could argue that leftist rhetoric is responsible for what happened but that would be equally absurd. The guy is a lunatic. To quote Rush, "There is no evidence that he listened to talk radio. There is no evidence he listened to Fox News. There is no evidence that he saw Sarah Palin's Facebook page. No evidence he saw her lame website with the crosshairs." I'm sure we will find out more as time goes on but I'm not buying into any of that talk show association crap you're trying to peddle.



One of your points was that no conservative talk show host has ever made remarks advocating violence, which I have already provided quotes to prove that was not true.

And now you are quoting Rush Limbaugh to prove that conservative talk show hosts had no influence on what happened.

I guess if a conservative talk show host says conservative talk shows had no influence then of course it must be true. 

I mean really, would an Oxycontin guy, oops, I meant honest guy (I get those two words mixed up sometimes), like Rush ever lie?

But since you "could spend all day quoting inflammatory rhetoric from the left as you could from the right" why don't you share that with us?



Politesub53 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 3:42:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I find it hard to believe you don't see the logic... If I want to kill and I'm a fanatic I will find a tool to do it...Taking away guns will not stop these people as it has not stopped them in the UK.

We must get off this guns are the root of all evil fallacy…they are the root of nothing…people are.

Butch


You say I am unable to see the logic, yet blindingly overlook the obvious. All I hear is "yada yada yada people kill guns dont" yet the fact remains Americas death rate in this type of incident is exceptionally high. I still fail to see the link between gun crime by a long stream of nutters, and an organised terrorist attack such as 7/7 or 9/11. 



Politesub53 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 3:46:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

I said they could. Hitler certainly would have done it, if we hadn't of saved your asses. And Muslims may do it in the future if you don't profess your faith to Islam.


Some of you on the right are seriously deluded. Either that or they dont use history books over there.



Kirata -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:23:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

the fact remains Americas death rate in this type of incident is exceptionally high.

32 hurt in latest China school knife attack

A jobless knife-wielding man injured 32 people, mostly young children, at a kindergarten in eastern China Thursday in the country's third school stabbing frenzy since last month.

China already has gun-control. And when they institute tighter knife-controls, this kind of story will read "a jobless pencil-wielding man".

Try to think a little deeper about the causes of these kinds of outrages.

K.



Kirata -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:32:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

You're all fucked. You only care about your so called liberty.

Silly that, isn't it...

We'd be so much better off making the country like our mom's basement.

K.




Politesub53 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:38:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

the fact remains Americas death rate in this type of incident is exceptionally high.

32 hurt in latest China school knife attack

A jobless knife-wielding man injured 32 people, mostly young children, at a kindergarten in eastern China Thursday in the country's third school stabbing frenzy since last month.

China already has gun-control. And when they institute tighter knife-controls, this kind of story will read "a jobless pencil-wielding man".

Try to think a little deeper about the causes of these kinds of outrages.

K.


Try thinking......period. One off attacks like this, using a knife or other means hardly equate to the number of deaths by gunshot. I have already mentioned on other threads that Americans need to have firearms in many case, such as in rural areas for defence against criminals or wild animals. My point about the high number of these attacks, by people using guns in the US still stands.  



philosophy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:45:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Try thinking......period. One off attacks like this, using a knife or other means hardly equate to the number of deaths by gunshot. I have already mentioned on other threads that Americans need to have firearms in many case, such as in rural areas for defence against criminals or wild animals. My point about the high number of these attacks, by people using guns in the US still stands.  



...we have to be fair though. Because, oddly, i think i sort of agree with Kirata. It's not the prevelance of guns that's the problem, because countries with even higher ratios of guns to citizens don't have the same sort of death rate.

Seems to me, the reason why, in the US, their mass murders seem to be gun related is to do with their iconography.

All cultures have short hand imagery that shore up our sense of selves. Show a londoner a red double decker bus (or better, a bag of chips from their local chippy), and there's a substantial response.
Guns and gun violence appear too often in US iconography. Both Palin and the Democrats posted maps of the US recently which posted bulls-eyes and targets over the heads of their respective opponents. The iconography of guns in the US means that, when some poor, misguided impressionable young soul turns to the dark side, if they're American they'll reach over the machete and pick up the glock.



Charles6682 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:46:03 PM)

Theres no reason some deranged lunatic or the one who shot up so many at Virgina Tech can get guns so easily,legal at that.People from out the U.S.A,theres no point in trying to convince anything to gun loving Americans.The answer is always the same.Sadly,I just think the majority of Americans just accept these tragic shootings as a cost of loving guns so much.The NRA has already brainwashed America.Theres just no reasoning when it comes to guns.



Elisabella -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:54:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

the country's third school stabbing frenzy since last month.



One off attacks like this, using a knife


...

I don't even know what to say about this.

Do people even read the shit they quote before deciding to disagree?



Politesub53 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 4:58:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

the country's third school stabbing frenzy since last month.



One off attacks like this, using a knife


...

I don't even know what to say about this.

Do people even read the shit they quote before deciding to disagree?


Of the three attacks, there were only deaths in one, thankfully. You would also need to factor in the population difference. So yes, I did read the article I quoted, did you ?



Elisabella -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:04:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Of the three attacks, there were only deaths in one, thankfully. You would also need to factor in the population difference. So yes, I did read the article I quoted, did you ?


You described the stabbing as a "one off attack" when there had been three attacks of that nature in two months.

If you want to say that nobody died in the stabbing Kirata linked the article to, that's one thing, but it's certainly not a one off attack.



Kirata -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:07:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One off attacks like this, using a knife or other means hardly equate to the number of deaths by gunshot.

That's a nice dance step there, the way you went from "Americas death rate in this type of incident is exceptionally high," the claim to which I responded, to "deaths by gunshot" overall. I realize you have an agenda to push, but try to keep to the line of thought.

K.



Politesub53 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:18:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

One off attacks like this, using a knife or other means hardly equate to the number of deaths by gunshot.

That's a nice dance step there, the way you went from "Americas death rate in this type of incident is exceptionally high," the claim to which I responded, to "deaths by gunshot" overall. I realize you have an agenda to push, but try to keep to the line of thought.

K.


No side step, check the official figures. You tried to muddy the waters by using the link about China.

No agenda either if you have read my post on the other thread. I said there I can see some Americans have to have the use of firearms. I suggest any agenda is clearly your own.



DomKen -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:18:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

sorry ...i added a  period at the end
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline
my bad...its a site to stop gun violence... going back to july 2008
and not just aimed at right or left, but mostly ...gun violence and  anti govmnt  wankers
lots of glen beck references in there

If he had sung give peace a chance, it couldnt have been any more despicable


that period was still there.
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

The litany of terrorist actions detailed on that page in just the last 3 years is shocking. It is far past time to call the right wing violence what it is, terrorism.



Kirata -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:23:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Of the three attacks, there were only deaths in one... So yes, I did read the article

authorities in Fujian province in the southeast executed former doctor Zheng Minsheng for stabbing to death eight children and injuring five others on March 23.

K.



jlf1961 -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 5:29:06 PM)

Actually Thailand and South Africa lead the United States in gun related deaths, if anyone would take the time to do the research.

But of course it is MUCH easier for non-Americans to say the US leads the world in gun violence.




lovmuffin -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 6:30:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I guess you didn't get my point. There is plenty of rhetoric to go around from both sides of the political spectrum but to associate this idiot with talk show hosts is absurd and its ghoulish to try and make hay out of it, though predictable. I could spend all day quoting inflammatory rhetoric from the left as you could from the right, but its immaterial other than to illistrate the hypocrisy. I could argue that leftist rhetoric is responsible for what happened but that would be equally absurd. The guy is a lunatic. To quote Rush, "There is no evidence that he listened to talk radio. There is no evidence he listened to Fox News. There is no evidence that he saw Sarah Palin's Facebook page. No evidence he saw her lame website with the crosshairs." I'm sure we will find out more as time goes on but I'm not buying into any of that talk show association crap you're trying to peddle.



One of your points was that no conservative talk show host has ever made remarks advocating violence, which I have already provided quotes to prove that was not true.

And now you are quoting Rush Limbaugh to prove that conservative talk show hosts had no influence on what happened.

I guess if a conservative talk show host says conservative talk shows had no influence then of course it must be true. 

I mean really, would an Oxycontin guy, oops, I meant honest guy (I get those two words mixed up sometimes), like Rush ever lie?

But since you "could spend all day quoting inflammatory rhetoric from the left as you could from the right" why don't you share that with us?




You say one of my points was that no conservative talk show host has ever made remarks advocating violence, which you have already provided quotes to prove that was not true. I was referring to Beck, Limbaugh, Palin and the tea party. But your assertion that those whom you quoted, Liddy 
Turner and Savage had somehow affected this mass murderer to commit his crime borders on lunacy. I hope you don't own any guns.


You want some left wing inflammatory rhetoric

Reading the entire thread would help.

I understand that may be too challenging for you so let me re-post a link provided earlier in this thread.

  http://thurly.net/8qn

I didn't quote Rush Limbaugh to prove that conservative talk show hosts had no influence on what happened. I quoted him because I agree with his assertion that FOX News, Sarah Palin, Glen Beck nor Rush Limbaugh had any affect on this lunatic committing his crime. But if you can make the connection  Mr Genius, pray tell what, exactly is it ?

IMHO it is the height of ignorance to assert that political discourse somehow causes mass murderers to act on their impulses.






pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 6:33:06 PM)

....if he is convicted- he would then have a felony- and as such may not buy a gun.  So- it all works out in the end.



pahunkboy -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 6:34:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I think he was talking about eye doctors.

Anton LaVey


The guy seems to have gone to Bohemiun grove.



slvemike4u -> RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot (1/10/2011 6:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

"There's reason to believe this individual [Loughner] may have a mental issue,"

He wanted to own a gun. Of course he had a mental issue.


Um, it should be blindingly obvious that the guy was nuts.  That said, I know plenty of people who do own guns who are sane.  I think you've made a bad association.

"blindingly obvious that the guy was nuts"....Yes I think we can all agree with that.....it should also be blindingly obvious that it was distressingly easy for this unbalanced individual to not only legally buy a pistol...but additionally he was able to inject a 30 round clip into said weapon.A clip that  had been outlawed as recently as 2004.Unfortunately the advocates of gun ownership were able to exert enough lobbying pressure that that particular ban was allowed to expire.



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