RE: Tucson and the Media

RE: Tucson and the Media (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 9:21:44 AM)
If he gets a smart solicitor, I'm sure they'll have him claiming in court that he was too inspired by the gunsights on Barbie's website.

tazzygirl -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 11:19:13 AM)
To me, and this is only my own personal opinion, he was looking for a way out, and decided going out with a bang was the best option.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 11:33:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If he gets a smart solicitor, I'm sure they'll have him claiming in court that he was too inspired by the gunsights on Barbie's website. He, apparently, has the same guy that defended the unibomber.

eihwaz -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 1:24:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If he gets a smart solicitor, I'm sure they'll have him claiming in court that he was too inspired by the gunsights on Barbie's website. Judy Clarke

TheHeretic -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 6:58:42 PM)
Now don't go mentioning the Unabomber, Will. Ken is working very hard to make this all about loonies whose beliefs can somehow be generally labeled as "right." He probably wouldn't like you bringing up the Weathermen either, and certainly not any urban riots.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 8:10:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Now don't go mentioning the Unabomber, Will. Ken is working very hard to make this all about loonies whose beliefs can somehow be generally labeled as "right." He probably wouldn't like you bringing up the Weathermen either, and certainly not any urban riots. There be loonies and home-grown terrorists on both sides of the aisle but I gotta say the Right-Wingers are WAAAAY ahead on the sheer body count.

TheHeretic -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 10:48:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There be loonies and home-grown terrorists on both sides of the aisle but I gotta say the Right-Wingers are WAAAAY ahead on the sheer body count. Liberal incompetence maybe? Premature detonations, and elegant little handmade things that go "bang," instead of "boom?"

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/19/2011 11:02:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Premature detonations... Don't they have a pill that can cure that now?

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 5:05:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There be loonies and home-grown terrorists on both sides of the aisle but I gotta say the Right-Wingers are WAAAAY ahead on the sheer body count. Liberal incompetence maybe? Premature detonations, and elegant little handmade things that go "bang," instead of "boom?" Or the liberals all being the sort of wet, wimpy types who prefer to negotiate rather than killing people like the manly, assertive reactionaries...

DomKen -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 6:51:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Now don't go mentioning the Unabomber, Will. Ken is working very hard to make this all about loonies whose beliefs can somehow be generally labeled as "right." He probably wouldn't like you bringing up the Weathermen either, and certainly not any urban riots. Actually I don't mind in the least. It just makes you look even more desperate than usual. I don't deny that some liberals have done some bad stuff. I am simply proving that right wingers have also done some bad stuff and that the right wing hate media has helped produce that violence. Just keep in mind the further back you go to dredge up some liberal acting badly the farther back I will go. Eric Rudolph is such an excellent counterexample to the Unabomber for instance.

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 7:08:21 AM)
There's those who think that Lee Harvey Oswald might not have been a lone gunman acting on his own initiative, aren't there?

CreativeDominant -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 7:30:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Now don't go mentioning the Unabomber, Will. Ken is working very hard to make this all about loonies whose beliefs can somehow be generally labeled as "right." He probably wouldn't like you bringing up the Weathermen either, and certainly not any urban riots. Actually I don't mind in the least. It just makes you look even more desperate than usual. I don't deny that some liberals have done some bad stuff. I am simply proving that right wingers have also done some bad stuff and that the right wing hate media has helped produce that violence. Just keep in mind the further back you go to dredge up some liberal acting badly the farther back I will go. Eric Rudolph is such an excellent counterexample to the Unabomber for instance. I find it ironic that a group of people that tends toward the idea of "personal responsibility for your actions" for their dominants/submissives would go along with the idea that somehow hate speech from the right produces violence. Again, no one has stated that the radical right wing engages in violence. What is at question...at least originally...is whether or not the speech heard on talk radio can be the primary factor in inciting that violence. I have yet to see one demonstration of a monologue...or even a series of monologues...by Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity (they being the ones most often cited) being the direct, "proven" (as tazzy likes to state when questioning a statement of proof by a conservative) link to their violence. Statements by the perpetrators as to these folks being the cause of the perpetrators' actions? Transcripts of statements by those cited in which they urged violence? Of course, those of that group from the left who insist that it is talk radio that is the cause will continue to deny the influence of such things as the Huff and Puff Post, movies that speak about the "positives" of assassinating G. Bush, a Congressman who two days ago compared the Republicans to Nazis...Goebbels in particular...on the House floor when speaking about the opposition to Obamacare (way to move to bipartisan, conciliatory, productive speech rather than hateful rhetoric), commentators such as Bill Maher, Joy Behar, Keith Olbermann. As a final aside...you were right, tazzy in stating that it had not been proven that Loughner's actions were non-political. It has NOT been proven. More and more, statements being made by family and friends and his own record of increasingly disturbing encounters lead one to a picture of a man spiraling downward into mental degeneration of some nature. My apology for the rash statement of proof.

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 7:39:55 AM)
So remind me how often George "the Chimp" Bush was shot while in power, then?

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 7:42:48 AM)
(And no: shoes don't count...)

DomKen -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 9:54:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I find it ironic that a group of people that tends toward the idea of "personal responsibility for your actions" for their dominants/submissives would go along with the idea that somehow hate speech from the right produces violence. I find it pathetic that anyone who has spent their life exposed to modern media believes propoganda does not affect people's actions. quote: Again, no one has stated that the radical right wing engages in violence. What is at question...at least originally...is whether or not the speech heard on talk radio can be the primary factor in inciting that violence. I have yet to see one demonstration of a monologue...or even a series of monologues...by Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity (they being the ones most often cited) being the direct, "proven" (as tazzy likes to state when questioning a statement of proof by a conservative) link to their violence. Statements by the perpetrators as to these folks being the cause of the perpetrators' actions? Transcripts of statements by those cited in which they urged violence? Byron Williams.

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 12:04:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I find it pathetic that anyone who has spent their life exposed to modern media believes propoganda does not affect people's actions. Particularly given that the Republicans (Al and Tipper aside) have always been the pro censorship party...

CreativeDominant -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 12:18:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I find it ironic that a group of people that tends toward the idea of "personal responsibility for your actions" for their dominants/submissives would go along with the idea that somehow hate speech from the right produces violence. I find it pathetic that anyone who has spent their life exposed to modern media believes propoganda does not affect people's actions. Those on the fringe of sanity...losers...sure. The case you cite below is a perfect example of just such a loser. quote: Again, no one has stated that the radical right wing engages in violence. What is at question...at least originally...is whether or not the speech heard on talk radio can be the primary factor in inciting that violence. I have yet to see one demonstration of a monologue...or even a series of monologues...by Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity (they being the ones most often cited) being the direct, "proven" (as tazzy likes to state when questioning a statement of proof by a conservative) link to their violence. Statements by the perpetrators as to these folks being the cause of the perpetrators' actions? Transcripts of statements by those cited in which they urged violence? Byron Williams. Byron Williams himself cites Beck as his reason for his actions. Again, let's see the transcript in which Beck urged ANYONE to go out and commit violence. It will be interesting to see what happens when he goes to court...if he tries the "media made me do it" defense...and whether or not the court buys that. Again, I ask the question which none of you seem to want to answer...if the media is such a big influence and a dangerous one, do you advocate doing the same thing with movies, games, books, that you want done with radio?

Kirata -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 12:35:17 PM)
~ FR ~ It is ingenuous (not to say fucking stupid) for people who characterize their political opponents as neo-Nazis and racists to pretend with mock innocence that they are not complicit in the violence that afflicts us simply because they have not explicitly "advocated" it. Advocating violence isn't nearly as effective as provoking it. K.

Moonhead -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 1:28:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata ~ FR ~ It is ingenuous (not to say fucking stupid) for people who characterize their political opponents as neo-Nazis and racists to pretend with mock innocence that they are not complicit in the violence that afflicts us simply because they have not explicitly "advocated" it. Advocating violence isn't nearly as effective as provoking it. K. 100% correct, but I fear you're pissing into the wind in this case...

DomKen -> RE: Tucson and the Media (1/20/2011 1:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I find it ironic that a group of people that tends toward the idea of "personal responsibility for your actions" for their dominants/submissives would go along with the idea that somehow hate speech from the right produces violence. I find it pathetic that anyone who has spent their life exposed to modern media believes propoganda does not affect people's actions. Those on the fringe of sanity...losers...sure. The case you cite below is a perfect example of just such a loser. quote: Again, no one has stated that the radical right wing engages in violence. What is at question...at least originally...is whether or not the speech heard on talk radio can be the primary factor in inciting that violence. I have yet to see one demonstration of a monologue...or even a series of monologues...by Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity (they being the ones most often cited) being the direct, "proven" (as tazzy likes to state when questioning a statement of proof by a conservative) link to their violence. Statements by the perpetrators as to these folks being the cause of the perpetrators' actions? Transcripts of statements by those cited in which they urged violence? Byron Williams. Byron Williams himself cites Beck as his reason for his actions. Again, let's see the transcript in which Beck urged ANYONE to go out and commit violence. It will be interesting to see what happens when he goes to court...if he tries the "media made me do it" defense...and whether or not the court buys that. Again, I ask the question which none of you seem to want to answer...if the media is such a big influence and a dangerous one, do you advocate doing the same thing with movies, games, books, that you want done with radio? First let me make clear I don't advocate the government doing anything about right wing hate media, whether it is radio, TV, the net, books etc.. All I'm looking for is for the right wing to own their behaviour. As to Beck inciting violence, 6/10/2010 quote: You're going to have to shoot them in the head http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594343,00.html#ixzz1BLaeQ600 Feb 2010 Beck at CPAC calls progressives a cancer and should be treated as such. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/20/glenn-beck-cpac-2010-spee_n_470356.html A lot more is out there. A simple google of 'beck violent rhetoric' will get you tons of examples.

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