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jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 7:37:10 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cato84
I was really thinking about avoiding this thread because it seems to me you are really just trying to goad some people, several of whom you have obviously debated before. And they seem to have taken the bait, grats on that I guess. In the end I decided to jump in and try to counter a few points with what I have seen and believe.
Yes, fascism is usually plotted to be the far right of the political spectrum. Fascism does incorporate the idea of a planed economy and restrict private property rights which is often why you see some people claiming Nazis were a syncretic party.
If I gather your meaning correctly, you are saying that Nazism did not put conditions on private property.
This is a false belief, since under Nazi rule, private property in regards to business and industry was conditional. If it did not further Nazi goals, the government would nationalize whatever business it was, and take it from the owners.
Nazi government corporate takeovers, and threatened takeovers, encouraged compliance with government production plans, even if unprofitable for the firm. For example, the owner of the Junkers aeroplane factory refused the government’s directives, whereupon the Nazis occupied the factory and arrested Hugo Junkers, but paid him for his nationalized business. Although the Nazis privatised public properties and public services, they also increased economic state control. source
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cato84
I personally don't care where you want to place them on the right-left scale.What I do want to talk about is the fuzzy line you are trying to draw between people on the right and all racists. Lets not forget that while Hitler was gathering up Jews in the tens of thousands to murder them, Stalin was outlawing Hebrew because it was "reactionary", forcing Jews to convert to the "proletarian culture", and jailing or killing those who didn't.
May I point out, whether you wish to believe it or not, and feel free to do your own research, the American Nazi movement, most white supremacy groups tend to vote republican, if only because of gun rights issues.
You may also note that (like the Nazis) ultra conservatives have chosen to demonize a ethnic and religious group, the Muslims. Ultra conservative groups around the country have protested the building of Mosques, Muslim Community centers and other projects. Just google anti-muslim protests in the United States.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cato84
On to health care. If you think there was no government control taken from insurance agencies, doctors, and hospitals in that bill you are woefully mistaken. We can argue over whether to call it a takeover or not, but there are plenty of powers now passing into the hands to the government. The new government site created to put a good spin on them is here. A website built to put a bad spin on them is here. Again, I don't care which side you take in thinking this is a good or bad thing, but ignoring the facts that the government does have much greater power in regards to health coverage in this country now is just ridiculous.
Give one example, if you please, just where the government took over the Medical Insurance Industry.
If you are talking about the fact that it made it illegal to cap coverage amounts, or that it made it illegal to not insure someone with a pre existing condition, I would ask you What is wrong with that?
Or do you think it is perfectly alright to deny coverage to someone who had asthma as a kid?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cato84
Last, I consider my self an isolationist as far as military involvement is concerned almost all around, and have for most of my like. I will admit that in 2003 when I was nineteen and heard that there were WMD in Iraq, I wanted us to go get them too. I have a hard time believing it was a bald face lie, but who knows. Not because I consider myself a conservative and want to "defend my own" or anything like that, I just have seen the intelligence reports that were released to the media that includes the information Bush was provided with prior to the invasion which states that Hussein almost certainly had them. Bush believed it, Bill Clinton believed it, most other world nation leaders believed it. There were other reasons stated before going to war, but the WMD is what sold me and probably most of the country. What should we do about it now? Nothing. Finish the job.
As I stated, at one time the Iraqi government had a program for WMD development, HOWEVER, the nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli Air Force in the 80's, the chemical and bio facilities were destroyed during the first gulf war and never rebuilt, or dismantled under the direction of the UN Inspectors.
This information was known by the CIA, British Intelligence, Israeli Intelligence and this was reported to President Bush. IF he chose to ignore this information and make the claim, then he is and was stupid. IF he chose to listen to the data given, AND then tell the American people there was such programs, then he lied.
Another point, IF there had been active bio or chemical programs AFTER the first gulf war, considering that the Iraqi military still had SCUD missiles that could reach Israel, and considering that Israeli Intelligence Agencies are among the best in the world, often coming up with data that western countries have missed, I do believe that Israel would have attacked the facilities without thinking twice. They hit the nuclear plant in the 80's near Baghdad and did not give a damn about International reactions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cato84
I was going to end saying simply "that's my two cents on the matter", but I look up and see a lot more than two cents written here.
And actually just before I posted this I refreshed the page and saw you noted that the Nazis were against liberalism. Liberalism in this country today does not mean what it did seventy years ago and does not mean the same as it does in other nations. The word liberalism has really been hijacked to mean something it didn't use to. Classic Liberalism and an example of current "classical liberals" is Japans Liberal Party
-edited to fix link and format-
While this point is true, Liberalism still does not condone, promote or advocate anything that the Nazi party ever did. There is no way to show that it does.
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