RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT

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jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 8:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 They were, and this is historic fact, fascists, which is the exact opposite of a socialist. They are in no way opposites. They are adjacent to each other in the political circle. You can get to facism from the left or from the right. To deny that the Nazis socialized industries through direct ownership or intimidation of the ownership into producing for them you are once again rewriting history. Actually, Fascists seek to organize a country according to a particular nationalist strand of corporatist values and perspectives, with an emphasis on enforcing a collectivist form of political and economic organisation based on a tightly prescribed national identity. Now the Nazi government Nationalized industries for war production, OR used the threat of nationalization to get industries to produce goods (i.e military arms and equipment) to further the goals of the Nazi Party. Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources. Now, let me explain that COMMON OWNERSHIP means owned by the people, NOT the government. An economic system that has been proven to be flawed at best, impossible at worst, or have you forgotten that an economic collapse facilitated the final fall of the soviet union. Furthermore, when you consider that a Fascist regime openly condemns, imprisons or persecutes socialist movements, I fail to see how you can say they are not opposites. Unless of course you are rewriting political theory as well as history. Again, let me point out, for the people who clearly have not paid attention in history class, that during the Spanish Civil war, the Fascists were OPPOSED by the communists and SOCIALIST. IF they are not opposites, then they should have been fighting on the same side. Nazi Germany supported the fascists under Franco, NOT the socialists. Also, the Nazis had socialists arrested and sent to concentration camps, again if they were not ideological opposites, this would not have happened. Now, explain why the fascist government of Nazi Germany would do these historically proven things if they were so close in political theory? I really would like to see you try.

Cato84 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 8:37:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 If I gather your meaning correctly, you are saying that Nazism did not put conditions on private property. In fact I am saying the exact opposite. They did put conditions on private property! quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961Nazi government corporate takeovers, and threatened takeovers, encouraged compliance with government production plans, even if unprofitable for the firm. For example, the owner of the Junkers aeroplane factory refused the government’s directives, whereupon the Nazis occupied the factory and arrested Hugo Junkers, but paid him for his nationalized business. Although the Nazis privatised public properties and public services, they also increased economic state control. This statement of yours is confusing to me. You contradict yourself here several times. The Nazi party was entirely about providing restrictions on private industry to support autarcy. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961May I point out, whether you wish to believe it or not, and feel free to do your own research, the American Nazi movement, most white supremacy groups tend to vote republican, if only because of gun rights issues. You can point out whatever you want without a reference, but it will just get laughed at. What you are saying is ridiculous, show me some numbers at least...then maybe I will consider looking at what you are saying. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Give one example, if you please, just where the government took over the Medical Insurance Industry. If you are talking about the fact that it made it illegal to cap coverage amounts, or that it made it illegal to not insure someone with a pre existing condition, I would ask you What is wrong with that? Or do you think it is perfectly alright to deny coverage to someone who had asthma as a kid? Obamacare 1. The Secretary will now identify, as appropriate, categories and classes of drugs that the Secretary determines are of “clinical concern” (Section 3307) 2. The Secretary will decide how drugs are dispensed in long-term care facilities (Section 3310) 3. The Secretary will develop oral healthcare components, including “tooth-level surveillance,” a clinical examination of every dental surface in the mouth (Section 4102) 4. The Secretary may establish insurance premium ratings for states (Section 1201) 5. The Secretary may conduct comparative effectiveness research (Section 6301) The list goes on, but to ask me to name more is just plain ridiculous. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961As I stated, at one time the Iraqi government had a program for WMD development, HOWEVER, the nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli Air Force in the 80's, the chemical and bio facilities were destroyed during the first gulf war and never rebuilt, or dismantled under the direction of the UN Inspectors. This information was known by the CIA, British Intelligence, Israeli Intelligence and this was reported to President Bush. IF he chose to ignore this information and make the claim, then he is and was stupid. IF he chose to listen to the data given, AND then tell the American people there was such programs, then he lied. Another point, IF there had been active bio or chemical programs AFTER the first gulf war, considering that the Iraqi military still had SCUD missiles that could reach Israel, and considering that Israeli Intelligence Agencies are among the best in the world, often coming up with data that western countries have missed, I do believe that Israel would have attacked the facilities without thinking twice. They hit the nuclear plant in the 80's near Baghdad and did not give a damn about International reactions. I from this point forward don't want to discuss the Iraq war in this thread because I see it only as a distraction and something I honestly don't give a flying fuck about. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961While this point is true, Liberalism still does not condone, promote or advocate anything that the Nazi party ever did. There is no way to show that it does. I never said liberalism did. I am not one of those crazies who sets out to categorically say something like that. I will point out that neither does conservatism.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 8:48:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Lots and lots of stuff here. I'll be brief and succinct. First point: Sino-Vietnamese War Second point: Does a managed economy, in which the federal government helps ensure economic security, social welfare programs for the workers, a just wage, honor for the workers who contributed to the nation and protection from capitalist exploitation sound like something that one of our major parties and ... perhaps ... our President have as goals? What bill or proposal has the democrats made that indicate they want to manage the economy? Are you referring to regulations dealing with various Environmental issues? The President has not proposed one bill that would manage the economy, nor has any democrat even brought one to the floor. GM? Any other companies that you may think of, that the guv'ment "manages" or has threatened to take over if they do not do as their political masters wish? Ya think the health care bill isn't a "management of the economy"? Both Democrats and Republicans of the last few decades are more into a "managed economy" than they should be, but it seems to becoming a Democratic core belief: While nearly half of Democrats (49%) think the government's appropriate economic role is to provide helpful programs, 42% of those in President Obama's party say the government should manage the economy completely. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By the way, any economist would show you that the only way the "Managed Economy" of Nazi Germany worked was with confiscation of resources, a massive military buildup, in which factories were told to produce military arms and equipment even if it was not profitable for the firm. Yes, they had the highest GDP for the period of time from when Hitler took absolute control until the beginning of the war. Yes there was low unemployment, easy to accomplish when most of the male population was either making arms and armaments or in the military. "Any economist"? Damn. Can you cite any proof of this? Are there an "economists" who might not believe this? If there is a single one, then your statement is hyperbole (just like the rest of your crappy, uneducated, ideologically biased statements in this thread). quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The program would not have worked in the long term. Then I'll never hear from you, or any other member of the left that it was WWII that got the US out of the Great Depression? quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Do you see the democrats proposing anything that resembles Nazi doctrine? NO. It is happening only in the minds of Glen Beck, Rush and the tea party. See it all the time, buddy. Take off your ideological, hate filled blinders, and you might as well. Firm PS. Care to acknowledge the Sino-Viet war? Yanno, one were "socialist" fought "socialist" - which you claimed couldn't happen?

jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 9:18:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY GM? Any other companies that you may think of, that the guv'ment "manages" or has threatened to take over if they do not do as their political masters wish? Ya think the health care bill isn't a "management of the economy"? So, you are saying that it would have been better to let GM go under? How did the government take over management of GM? There was a bail out which has been paid back, and the stock that the government had in GM was sold at a profit, or did that fact slip your mind? quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Both Democrats and Republicans of the last few decades are more into a "managed economy" than they should be, but it seems to becoming a Democratic core belief: While nearly half of Democrats (49%) think the government's appropriate economic role is to provide helpful programs, 42% of those in President Obama's party say the government should manage the economy completely. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 By the way, any economist would show you that the only way the "Managed Economy" of Nazi Germany worked was with confiscation of resources, a massive military buildup, in which factories were told to produce military arms and equipment even if it was not profitable for the firm. Yes, they had the highest GDP for the period of time from when Hitler took absolute control until the beginning of the war. Yes there was low unemployment, easy to accomplish when most of the male population was either making arms and armaments or in the military. "Any economist"? Damn. Can you cite any proof of this? Are there an "economists" who might not believe this? If there is a single one, then your statement is hyperbole (just like the rest of your crappy, uneducated, ideologically biased statements in this thread). quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The program would not have worked in the long term. Then I'll never hear from you, or any other member of the left that it was WWII that got the US out of the Great Depression? quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Do you see the democrats proposing anything that resembles Nazi doctrine? NO. It is happening only in the minds of Glen Beck, Rush and the tea party. See it all the time, buddy. Take off your ideological, hate filled blinders, and you might as well. Firm PS. Care to acknowledge the Sino-Viet war? Yanno, one were "socialist" fought "socialist" - which you claimed couldn't happen? First lets address the point about a managed economy. The soviet Union had a managed Economy, an economic crisis led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. France has a socialist government, France has increased the work week, cut paid vacations and inacted austerity measures. Clearly the managed economy is not working. The same is true for other countries, such as Greece. Looks to me that the idea of a managed economy is not working out to well. I did not say it couldn't happen, I said that it was not the norm. You forgot to mention the Russian Chinese border incidents. In the case of the sino-viet war and the Soviet Union- China border clashes, they are both socialist governments, true. However, they follow two vastly different doctrines, Vietnam is more of a soviet styled government which did not get much support from the Chinese. That still does not change the fact that, all things being equal, socialist movements tend to work together. A fascist movement will attack, condemn and destroy a socialist movement. The Nazis were fascists, NOT socialists. That point has been addressed by myself and one other person in this thread, which as per your usual behavior have chosen to ignore. Once more, the Nazis put socialists in concentration camps, the fought along side the fascists in Spain against the Socialists. Finally, the Nazis were a NATIONALIST movement, who used socialist in the name of the party to garner worker support. The programs they introduced were as far from socialism as they could get. Now as for white supremacist groups and American Nazi groups being right wing, I suggest you look Here.

Arpig -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 10:09:16 PM)
quote: But my point really was that when the Nazis were claiming to be against Liberalism, they were really saying "We are against the free market", Not true

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/23/2011 10:43:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 So, you are saying that it would have been better to let GM go under? How did the government take over management of GM? There was a bail out which has been paid back, and the stock that the government had in GM was sold at a profit, or did that fact slip your mind? The bondholders of GM have not been paid back, the union got it all, or did that fact slip your mind? GM would not have gone under, thats another fallacy sold to the general public, along with TARP was needed to save the world economy. GM would have reorganized and been far healthier than it is, out from under the shackles of contracts it was held hostage to approve when times were better.

tweakabelle -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 12:10:24 AM)
I have just read this thread. Phew! I gained the impression that some of the right wingers here inhabit a parallel universe. The idea that Nazism is somehow left-wing is utter fantasy with zero basis in historical fact. Ridiculous. Absurd. Surreal. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the rise of Nazis in Germany, or Fascists in any European country will find this claim laughable. Fascism is a uniquely right wing ideology. Any where it appears, it is opposed tooth and nail by leftists. Anywhere they gained power, fascists exterminated socialists and communists as a priority. Read any history of Spain/Italy/Germany in the 1920-30s. Or any European history covering that period. Read any of Hitler's speeches about the "Jewish-Bolshevik" conspiracy. In fact, just read a history book because if you can believe this gibberish, you haven't an iota of understanding about history I have no idea why people would parade such wanton ignorance so publicly. Clearly they haven't got a clue .... or a relationship with reality.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 2:43:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I have just read this thread. Phew! I gained the impression that some of the right wingers here inhabit a parallel universe. The idea that Nazism is somehow left-wing is utter fantasy with zero basis in historical fact. Ridiculous. Absurd. Surreal. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the rise of Nazis in Germany, or Fascists in any European country will find this claim laughable. Fascism is a uniquely right wing ideology. Any where it appears, it is opposed tooth and nail by leftists. Anywhere they gained power, fascists exterminated socialists and communists as a priority. Read any history of Spain/Italy/Germany in the 1920-30s. Or any European history covering that period. Read any of Hitler's speeches about the "Jewish-Bolshevik" conspiracy. In fact, just read a history book because if you can believe this gibberish, you haven't an iota of understanding about history I have no idea why people would parade such wanton ignorance so publicly. Clearly they haven't got a clue .... or a relationship with reality. Now you have some idea of the total futility of attempting reasoned debate with hard-core righties. I once tried to get someone to understand that physics precludes the possibility of visitations by ETs. It's very much like that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 5:29:54 AM)
quote: Obamacare 1. The Secretary will now identify, as appropriate, categories and classes of drugs that the Secretary determines are of “clinical concern” (Section 3307) 2. The Secretary will decide how drugs are dispensed in long-term care facilities (Section 3310) 3. The Secretary will develop oral healthcare components, including “tooth-level surveillance,” a clinical examination of every dental surface in the mouth (Section 4102) 4. The Secretary may establish insurance premium ratings for states (Section 1201) 5. The Secretary may conduct comparative effectiveness research (Section 6301) You do realize that link is to the House Bill, and not the law. It was reconciled with the Senate Bill. Have you read it? ETA~ Why didnt you post the real source of your list? http://www.healthtransformation.net/cs/home A new chart by the Center for Health Transformation reveals the unprecedented 1,968 new and expanded powers given to Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius under the health reform law. From powers over access to drugs and insurance coverage to care delivery processes and changes to Medicare, the chart reveals the 1,968 grants of new and expanded powers to the secretaries of Departments of Labor, Treasury and Health and Human Services. The overwhelming majority, however, will fall under HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. Examples of the 1,968 new and expanded powers include: •The Secretary will now identify, as appropriate, categories and classes of drugs that the Secretary determines are of “clinical concern” (Section 3307); •The Secretary will decide how drugs are dispensed in long-term care facilities (Section 3310); •The Secretary will develop oral healthcare components, including “tooth-level surveillance,” a clinical examination of every dental surface in the mouth (Section 4102); •The Secretary may establish insurance premium ratings for states (Section 1201); •The Secretary may conduct comparative effectiveness research (Section 6301).

mnottertail -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 7:14:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 They were, and this is historic fact, fascists, which is the exact opposite of a socialist. They are in no way opposites. They are adjacent to each other in the political circle. You can get to facism from the left or from the right. *To deny that the Nazis socialized industries through direct ownership or intimidation of the ownership into producing for them you are once again rewriting history.* This is a very big rewrite of history by a liar who is known to know very little actual fact on any subject whatsoever. You should read up on Thyssen, Krupp, Kerdorf, Voegler, von Schroeder, Stinnes, Kouwenhoven, and other industrialists in Nazi era Germany, as well as the I G Farben company, just to name a handful, these guys were not bound and gagged, dragged kicking and screaming into this, nor were they 'taken over' by the government in the sense you use it, although the government was by far and away their biggest client, they were well paid. I will admit that they took over newspapers and radios, so that they could have their own version of Faux News. History doesn't mean what you think it means, you should read up on that.

tweakabelle -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 7:23:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I have just read this thread. Phew! I gained the impression that some of the right wingers here inhabit a parallel universe. The idea that Nazism is somehow left-wing is utter fantasy with zero basis in historical fact. Ridiculous. Absurd. Surreal. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the rise of Nazis in Germany, or Fascists in any European country will find this claim laughable. Fascism is a uniquely right wing ideology. Any where it appears, it is opposed tooth and nail by leftists. Anywhere they gained power, fascists exterminated socialists and communists as a priority. Read any history of Spain/Italy/Germany in the 1920-30s. Or any European history covering that period. Read any of Hitler's speeches about the "Jewish-Bolshevik" conspiracy. In fact, just read a history book because if you can believe this gibberish, you haven't an iota of understanding about history I have no idea why people would parade such wanton ignorance so publicly. Clearly they haven't got a clue .... or a relationship with reality. Now you have some idea of the total futility of attempting reasoned debate with hard-core righties. I once tried to get someone to understand that physics precludes the possibility of visitations by ETs. It's very much like that. Perhaps we ought to encourage them .... I don't have a problem with them setting themselves up as objects of pure derision at all! [:D]

Hillwilliam -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 8:44:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I have just read this thread. Phew! I gained the impression that some of the right wingers here inhabit a parallel universe. The idea that Nazism is somehow left-wing is utter fantasy with zero basis in historical fact. Ridiculous. Absurd. Surreal. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the rise of Nazis in Germany, or Fascists in any European country will find this claim laughable. Fascism is a uniquely right wing ideology. Any where it appears, it is opposed tooth and nail by leftists. Anywhere they gained power, fascists exterminated socialists and communists as a priority. Read any history of Spain/Italy/Germany in the 1920-30s. Or any European history covering that period. Read any of Hitler's speeches about the "Jewish-Bolshevik" conspiracy. In fact, just read a history book because if you can believe this gibberish, you haven't an iota of understanding about history I have no idea why people would parade such wanton ignorance so publicly. Clearly they haven't got a clue .... or a relationship with reality. Now you have some idea of the total futility of attempting reasoned debate with hard-core righties. I once tried to get someone to understand that physics precludes the possibility of visitations by ETs. It's very much like that. Perhaps we ought to encourage them .... I don't have a problem with them setting themselves up as objects of pure derision at all! [:D] Unfortunately, it makes about as much sense as deriding a flatworm for its lack of knowledge of Calculus. What is the sense of deriding an organism that doesn't have enough intelligence to know it is being goofed on?

tazzygirl -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 9:05:47 AM)
quote: 1. The Secretary will now identify, as appropriate, categories and classes of drugs that the Secretary determines are of “clinical concern” (Section 3307) 2. The Secretary will decide how drugs are dispensed in long-term care facilities (Section 3310) 3. The Secretary will develop oral healthcare components, including “tooth-level surveillance,” a clinical examination of every dental surface in the mouth (Section 4102) 4. The Secretary may establish insurance premium ratings for states (Section 1201) 5. The Secretary may conduct comparative effectiveness research (Section 6301) The list goes on, but to ask me to name more is just plain ridiculous. Cato, here is my problem with such "findings". I pulled up the link the Gingrich website gave that was associated with the above information. The sections are either not there - SEC. 3205 is the hightest it goes - or it has nothing to do with what the site quoted... (1) Section 3307(b)(1)(C) of the Children’s 9 Health Act of 2000 (25 U.S.C. 1671 note; Public 10 Law 106–310) is amended by striking ‘‘Director of 11 the Indian Health Service’’ and inserting ‘‘Assistant 12 Secretary for Indian Health’’. Note, 3307 refers to a Law established in 2000... What that list that you provided may very well be true... but not in the House Bill. So, i plugged in the following... "comparative effectiveness research " No where does it state the Secretary shall do anything. It speaks of a commission. Made up os many different people from many different areas of health care, including patients. It starts on page 741 (plug that number into the space before the /1990 to find it). It goes on for a couple of pages... but, again, this isnt one person, its a group of people making decisions based upon many areas of health care, including bioethics.

jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 1:30:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 They were, and this is historic fact, fascists, which is the exact opposite of a socialist. They are in no way opposites. They are adjacent to each other in the political circle. You can get to facism from the left or from the right. *To deny that the Nazis socialized industries through direct ownership or intimidation of the ownership into producing for them you are once again rewriting history.* This is a very big rewrite of history by a liar who is known to know very little actual fact on any subject whatsoever. You should read up on Thyssen, Krupp, Kerdorf, Voegler, von Schroeder, Stinnes, Kouwenhoven, and other industrialists in Nazi era Germany, as well as the I G Farben company, just to name a handful, these guys were not bound and gagged, dragged kicking and screaming into this, nor were they 'taken over' by the government in the sense you use it, although the government was by far and away their biggest client, they were well paid. I will admit that they took over newspapers and radios, so that they could have their own version of Faux News. History doesn't mean what you think it means, you should read up on that. People fail to see the difference between NATIONALIZED and Socialized, when the Nazi government Nationalized a company, the owners were usually paid for the company. In a socialized take over, the owners are not compensated for the lost. See your history about the soviet takeover of private history.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 3:57:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Lots and lots of stuff here. I'll be brief and succinct. First point: Sino-Vietnamese War Second point: Does a managed economy, in which the federal government helps ensure economic security, social welfare programs for the workers, a just wage, honor for the workers who contributed to the nation and protection from capitalist exploitation sound like something that one of our major parties and ... perhaps ... our President have as goals? Firm What bill or proposal has the democrats made that indicate they want to manage the economy? Are you referring to regulations dealing with various Environmental issues? The President has not proposed one bill that would manage the economy, nor has any democrat even brought one to the floor. By the way, any economist would show you that the only way the "Managed Economy" of Nazi Germany worked was with confiscation of resources, a massive military buildup, in which factories were told to produce military arms and equipment even if it was not profitable for the firm. Yes, they had the highest GDP for the period of time from when Hitler took absolute control until the beginning of the war. Yes there was low unemployment, easy to accomplish when most of the male population was either making arms and armaments or in the military. The program would not have worked in the long term. Do you see the democrats proposing anything that resembles Nazi doctrine? NO. It is happening only in the minds of Glen Beck, Rush and the tea party. So...stepping in and taking over General Motors instead of allowing them to fail or declare bankruptcy (of course, we could not have that. Must protect the unions and under a bankruptcy, the board of G.M. could have asked the courts to set aside onerous union contracts) is NOT the government taking over a corporation? The government stepping in and telling corporations what they can pay C.E.O.s while insisting that anything union workers can get is fine is not the government intruding on business affairs? The government stepping in and instituting regulations to "save us all from ourselves" ---trans-fat "police", the Fairness Doctrine, etc....is not government trying to control our lives? Thanks for the clarification.

Politesub53 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 4:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy They are in no way opposites. They are adjacent to each other in the political circle. You can get to facism from the left or from the right. *To deny that the Nazis socialized industries through direct ownership or intimidation of the ownership into producing for them you are once again rewriting history.* This is a very big rewrite of history by a liar who is known to know very little actual fact on any subject whatsoever. He is shit hot on insurance claims though. Social history, not so much.

jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 4:30:36 PM)
It is not alright for the Obama administration to bail out the auto companies, but it was alright for Bush to do so. quote: It’s been a rough few months for General Motors and Chrysler. Both Detroit auto giants have been struggling with a sharp decline in sales and dwindling cash reserves. Cross-town rival Ford has seen similar drops in sales, but it is not nearly in the same cash-strapped position as GM and Chrysler. The Senate couldn't come to an agreement on a $14 billion USD loan package to bailout GM and Chrysler earlier this month, so the matter was kicked back to President Bush who at first was reluctant to meddle with the free markets. However, President Bush today announced a plan to provide low-interest loans to GM and Chrysler. The federal government will make available $13.4 billion USD in loans to GM and Chrysler over the next two months -- an additional $4 billion USD will be brought to the table with the second half of the $700 billion USD bailout package is opened up in February. "The terms and conditions of the financing provided by the Treasury Department will facilitate restructuring of our domestic auto industry, prevent disorderly bankruptcies during a time of economic difficulty, and protect the taxpayer by ensuring that only financially viable firms receive financing," added the White House in a statement to the press. "If the firms have not attained viability by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury." Source

Politesub53 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 4:48:29 PM)
How soon the right forget jlf. I posted about Bush and the bailout earlier but it seems it didnt sink in.

jlf1961 -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 5:12:24 PM)
As I said, the right rewrites history, or ignore it. After all, then house minority leader John Boehner begged for the passage of TARP, saying it was good for the country. Of course during the election cycle he claimed to have never supported TARP.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Right wing Conservatives and the tea party rewrite history... a LOT (1/24/2011 6:09:27 PM)
By the way. GM announced that it is now second in sales in the world behind toyota. 30,000 units separate 1 and 2 on the planet so you could almost call it a dead heat. Source http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_almost_no1 I have a feeling that GM will repay the bailout eh?

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