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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:30:09 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, $5 a gallon gas will not be the reality any time soon. $4 yes, but there are a lot of factors that will keep it from going much higher, most of which boil down to demand. The regular consumer has already shown that he will cut way back on his gas consumption when things tip around the $4 point. The US economy overall cannot sustain paying that kind of price, leading to further recession and more pressure on demand. A lot of articles will project higher demand from China as adding pressure on prices. They fail to take into account that China is still highly dependent on the US economy to sustain its growth.

To reach $5 unprecedented cooperation between cartel members would be needed, since as demand slips and revenues drop, some of the OPEC countries will break away and lower price to shore up demand for their product. The oil producing countries as a whole will also hold back price increases because if gasoline gets too expensive then harvesting domestic reserves and deveoping alternative forms of energy become more viable, and they want to avoid adding pressure in those areas.


My feeling is willbeurdaddy is mostly right, but may have overlooked something that caught my attention in the article at http://www.investorplace.com/27935/5-dollar-gas-prices-crude-oil-gasoline/. "Inflation Continues to Rear Ugly Head: Another weak, and another warning of runaway inflation in the works. Leading central bankers warned again Monday of resurgent inflation in fast-growing emerging economies and warned rising food and energy prices could spread to Europe and North America."

What might be going on I'm guessing is they may be drawing up plans if the global economy goes South and inflation is rampant. If the currency is devaluated as a result of inflation $4 or $5 may be the same as we are paying now from the stand point of OPEC.

Something else may need to be accounted for in everyone's equations, Russian may be the next Saudia Arabia. We are getting to work on that computer model aren't we?

quote:


... Russia recently surpassed Saudi Arabia as the world’s largest crude oil producer. ... Saudi Arabia has traditionally been the world’s largest producer of crude oil, a position which it occupied since 1991. However, Russia overtook it in 2009, ... Saudi has a very large surplus production capacity which is currently idle, and could effectively become the world’s top producer again if it chose to pump at full capacity. ... Russia is not a member of OPEC and instead increased its production to take advantage of stabilising prices and to gain market share. ... If the US and Russia were to cooperate, the US could likely eliminate imports from Saudi Arabia completely and replace them with supply from Russia. ...

http://wasatchecon.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/us-could-replace-saudi-arabia-with-russia-as-an-oil-supplier/

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:34:08 PM   
mnottertail


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I am not too sure about that.

If a QE3 happens, it is gonna put even more horrific pressure on commodity prices than the market is currently experiencing, our falling off the face of the earth price is around $95 dollars a barrel and we are about $88 right now.

I don't know if I see $5 gas for sure, but I see damn expensive gas even now. 

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:38:49 PM   
pahunkboy


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Don't worry.  Ron will give us all horsey back rides- to do our errands if gas goes up.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:44:18 PM   
mnottertail


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You can fetch your lazy fuckin ass off the couch, get on your fuckin dogs and walk and get your own shit.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:46:12 PM   
servantforuse


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When Bush was President, Dick Cheney and Halliburten were responsible for the high fuel prices. When does Obama get the same blame.? He is responsible because of his moratorium on off shore drilling in the gulf and west coast. Drill Baby Drill...

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:52:00 PM   
mnottertail


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He doesnt get the blame because he doesnt create outright situations that raise the price of oil, and he doesnt stand to gain from oil like cheney and w did.

Once more for the fuckheads and retards, you drill today and it is gonna be 10 years before you have enough in the system to do a fucking thing.

While we are at it, the stock market is pretty high, but Obama is only going to get credit when it goes down, right? 


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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 2:58:27 PM   
EternalHoH


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Inflation was not the cause of $4.50 gas in 2008.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4713382n

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 3:38:01 PM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Doesnt matter when it kicks in, you can never run a downstream device and gain total efficiency in the system over the initial source of energy. There is always some loss of energy in conversion/storage.



I agree with the loss on conversion and storage (and transmission via wires), but gasoline is not the only energy source that charges the battery.  So do regenerative brakes, which EVs have always had. Regenerative brakes have been around for a long time, and have more than proven themselves in other applications unrelated to cars (since the 1950s on railroad locomotives built by GM)

Im not all that convinced that gas charges the battery anyway.  The enormous cost of hybrids is because of the melding of two different powertrain designs, one based on traditional oil and the other on battery.  If we ever get to battery technology that goes double the range of a tank of gas, then the elimination of that gas engine supplement and the dual powertrain designs will eliminate the hybrid and cheapen the cost of EVs.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 3:49:33 PM   
couldbemage


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Alternator to motor can be more efficient than a normal auto transmission. Plus you can do more optimization with the engine.

So running a gasoline engine to power an electric motor is more efficient than powering the wheels directly.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:06:33 PM   
EternalHoH


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EVs would have a transmission, too, so the losses would happen either way.

EVs of the future are not the ones that operate like golf carts.  Yes, some of the little 'around the town' scooter cars may be very golf cart-like, but that's not the design that is being talked about.  The EVs of the late 80s were just like a normal car, transmission and all. It would have to be that way, as a consumer acceptance/selling point thing. EVs would have to be very present day car-like.



< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 1/24/2011 4:11:14 PM >

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:17:39 PM   
Jeffff


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Agreed.

But what fuel would you use to generate the electricity to charge the vehicles? You end up with coal or nuclear power plants.

In the long term it seems to me the hydrogen fuel cell is probably the answer. Once you get past the infrastructure.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:27:17 PM   
MstrBD


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Wake up people. In Europe, gas is way over 5 dollars a gallon already :-)

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:29:20 PM   
Musicmystery


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And much higher in Japan.

But that's markets.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:31:59 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

He is responsible because of his moratorium on off shore drilling in the gulf and west coast. Drill Baby Drill...


You're insane. Offshore drilling is expensive, and deep water drilling is costly. High oil prices are the reason to do it, not something that will be solved by doing it.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:39:59 PM   
Politesub53


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Americans will pay $5 a gallon when the price hits that mark. They will piss and moan but pay they will, just as everyone everywhere else has had to pay. They are too dependent on the car to have any other choice, people who say they wont pay need to wake up and smell the coffee.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 4:50:45 PM   
EternalHoH


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EV technology will advance faster than hydrogen fuel cell technology.  And another downfall of hydrogen is the fueling infrastructure will carry the same corporate logos as today's gas stations, so you do not break the oil industry monopoly on private auto transport by using hydrogen.

As I said in an earlier reply, electricity from natural gas will be the answer, we have the natural gas equivalent of two Saudi Arabias right here under our ground and its cleaner than coal, and because of those two realities most new power plants being built now in this country are natural gas plants.



< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 1/24/2011 4:52:29 PM >

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 5:13:04 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrBD

Wake up people. In Europe, gas is way over 5 dollars a gallon already :-)


Nonsense. They don't use dollars in Europe! They use... Europas, I think.


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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 5:13:04 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
I would like to hear what some of our resident "great thinkers" could be the answer to our ever increasing oil and gas prices.

Will $5 gas become the new normal?




Not being an expert in the oil futures market, my opinion is relatively uniformed as to the future price of oil - but I would say that a big chunk in the rise of the price of gasoline is simply due to the fall of the U. S. dollar in foreign exchange. Currently the dollar is at parity with the Canadian and Australian dollars. It's pretty much taken a nose dive against most of the world currencies (with the exception of euro which has its own problems and the reminbi which has a fixed exchange rate (and boy has that caused tensions with China)). Obviously, as long as the value of the dollar against foreign currencies is falling, the price of any imported goods will rise and one of the major things we import is oil.

So, I believe a stabilized dollar will stop the currently rising price of gasoline and a stronger dollar would lower the price of gasoline.

That being said, if your goal is lower the price of gasoline without resorting to currency manipulation, I have a number of suggestions which have a somewhat realistic time horizon (as opposed to developing entirely new technologies).

First, build more oil refineries in the United States. A great deal of the value in the price of gasoline is not created at the well head but at the refinery. By refining oil overseas and shipping gasoline here, that value is captured in foreign countries. Ship the crude oil here and refine it here.

Second, encourage a shift to diesel. Diesel burns more efficiently than gasoline. Modest estimates indicate a 5% fuel conservation using diesel instead of gasoline.

Third, improvements in technology have resulted in mssive increases in the amount of natural gas available in the United States and resulted in a massive drop in the price of natural gas. Convert everything you can to burn natural gas.

Fourth, focus R&D efforts on improving electrical transmission. The further you can move power around the country, the more efficiently you can source it and the more options you can offer people in what exactly is creating their power (if your hybrid is being charged off a dirty coal-burning power plant, just how green are you being, really?).

Fifth, develop good foreign relations and establish favorable trade agreements with new oil-producing nations. I cannot claim the United States' foreign policy has worked wonders with either the classic oil production nations of the Middle East nor the newer oil producing nations such as Venezuala or Nigeria. Even where we seem to have good relations with these nations (such as the countries that span the Baku–Tbilisi–Ceyhan Pipeline) it seems to me that it's more built on a house of cards than any long term good will.

Lastly, to answer the OPs underlying question of Will $5 gas become the new normal? ... eventually, of course, yes. Even leaving aside the supply of oil in an ever expanding world, historically, inflation never goes away - so as the United States continues to inflate its currency, as it's done for almost a century, the prices of everything will increase. $5 gas will become the new normal no matter what. Remember, there was a day when people were speculating would $1 gas be the "new normal", then would $2 gas be the "new normal"...

[Edited: Typos]

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 1/24/2011 5:15:33 PM >


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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 5:18:37 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

With current technology the only viable approach is swappable batteries that can be charged far more efficiently and in off-peak hours.


We all know how cell phone batteries can last for weeks, months!  HAAAAAAAAAAA! lol


Mine has lasted 4 years


before it had to be charged?


noooo hunkyboy. It goes a week to 10 days between charges but your point was the life of batteries.

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RE: Will $5 a gallon gas soon be the reality? - 1/24/2011 5:19:35 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
You're insane. Offshore drilling is expensive, and deep water drilling is costly. High oil prices are the reason to do it, not something that will be solved by doing it.


Don't take away their delusions.

The truth is many of the deep water fields, Arctic fields, and the oil they want to try and collect in the Dakotas would in no way bring down any prices.

Those are high dollar exploration and drilling fields which require high oil prices to make it worth the trouble.

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