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RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 12:37:09 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
hm. you know sometimes it isnt about the BDSM, sometimes its all about being with someone you really want to be with - and heres the bitch - will take punishment (in whatever format) if that means its all cleared up and you can get back to normal again.

If your "funishment" (to use someone else's word) is being flogged or whatever, it's BDSM-related. If he's "punishing" BDSM-style for something non related to the D/s aspects of your relationship, he's being an asshole.

No one will submit to actual punishment in a totally voluntary relationship. Again, you may enjoy calling it punishment, but, to reiterate once again, if you did not, on balance, enjoy it, you wouldn't allow your dominant to do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
and if so, they can't be a slave?

"Codependency" + "D/s slavery" sounds like a recipe for abuse, to me. Does it happen? I'm sure it does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pittbunny
i hope this answer gives you a fresh perspective into the hearts and needs of submissives and slaves.

No, it's just a reiteration of the same old stuff I have refuted over and over countless times.

< Message edited by Chulain -- 1/31/2011 12:44:19 PM >

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 61

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 1:01:21 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

I disagree, there's plenty of people who submit to something they don't like, because the dom see's fit. Submission isn't all about fun and kinks and submitting to what you like, or want only. It's about submitting to the person in its entirety.

I have taken punishments I did not like and did not find fun, because that was our dynamic. He had the authority to punish me if I fucked up bad enough to deserve it and trust me, it wasn't funishment there wasn't any part of me that liked it, it was painful, being in trouble hurt my heart, and it hurt my ass to get the whooping, and not in an erotic, oh yes hurt me way.

It was a voluntary relationship. I chose to be his submissive, and that didn't apply to only when he was doing things I liked to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

No one will submit to actual punishment in a totally voluntary relationship. Again, you may enjoy calling it punishment, but, to reiterate once again, if you did not, on balance, enjoy it, you wouldn't allow your dominant to do it.

_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 62

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 2:36:32 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom
I disagree, there's plenty of people who submit to something they don't like, because the dom see's fit. Submission isn't all about fun and kinks and submitting to what you like, or want only. It's about submitting to the person in its entirety.

And enjoying it, in its entirety.

quote:

I have taken punishments I did not like and did not find fun, because that was our dynamic. He had the authority to punish me if I fucked up bad enough to deserve it and trust me, it wasn't funishment there wasn't any part of me that liked it, it was painful, being in trouble hurt my heart, and it hurt my ass to get the whooping, and not in an erotic, oh yes hurt me way.

Oh yeah? Then why did you allow him to "punish?" you? You were in a totally voluntary, consnesual relationship. What made you take it? What stopped you from saying no? You desire to please him? Then you got your enjoyment from pleasing him. That's how lots of (maybe most?) submissive get their enjoyment.

Why do so many submissivestry yo make it sound like being a submissive is at times like some horrible chore they have to endure? You don't have to do anything within the consensaul, romantic context of your voluntary, consensual relationships. The only thing making you do it is you. And if you didn't, on some level, enjoy it, you would not submit.

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

Post #: 63

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 2:42:41 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
hm. you know sometimes it isnt about the BDSM, sometimes its all about being with someone you really want to be with - and heres the bitch - will take punishment (in whatever format) if that means its all cleared up and you can get back to normal again.

If your "funishment" (to use someone else's word) is being flogged or whatever, it's BDSM-related. If he's "punishing" BDSM-style for something non related to the D/s aspects of your relationship, he's being an asshole.

No one will submit to actual punishment in a totally voluntary relationship. Again, you may enjoy calling it punishment, but, to reiterate once again, if you did not, on balance, enjoy it, you wouldn't allow your dominant to do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
and if so, they can't be a slave?

"Codependency" + "D/s slavery" sounds like a recipe for abuse, to me. Does it happen? I'm sure it does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pittbunny
i hope this answer gives you a fresh perspective into the hearts and needs of submissives and slaves.

No, it's just a reiteration of the same old stuff I have refuted over and over countless times.

to some anything we do is abuse

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 64

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 3:01:58 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
hm. you know sometimes it isnt about the BDSM, sometimes its all about being with someone you really want to be with - and heres the bitch - will take punishment (in whatever format) if that means its all cleared up and you can get back to normal again.

If your "funishment" (to use someone else's word) is being flogged or whatever, it's BDSM-related. If he's "punishing" BDSM-style for something non related to the D/s aspects of your relationship, he's being an asshole.

No one will submit to actual punishment in a totally voluntary relationship. Again, you may enjoy calling it punishment, but, to reiterate once again, if you did not, on balance, enjoy it, you wouldn't allow your dominant to do it.

youre making the fundamental and arrogant mistake of thinking you know me well enough that you can tell me what i like, what i will and wont submit to and why.

clearly you have a clear and concise knowledge of how i work based on youre bias.

do not parrallel me with youre learning curve efforts to argue the toss on a topic you cannot possibly fully comprehend since you have no respect for submissives, no understanding of submissives and no desire to absorb anything we submissives are trying to explain to you.

and for the record i dont do funishment. ive been punished once in all the years ive been at this and i have no desire to go through anything like that again. he wasnt an arsehole he was my Master and i took it because his authority over me determined that i must or fry the TPE i lived under and wanted to continue living under.

sometimes, you plonker - it isnt about kink, it isnt about BDSM it isnt about anything other than keeping the Ds or Ms ethic alive between them because thats what they treasure and consider worth holding on to together.

i know of Ds and Ms couples who have little to no BDSM in their relationship - it isnt all about kink all of the time.

it might be for you, thats youre bias and youre perogative, just dont assume that youre way is how everyone else sees it, lives it and wants it.

as for - if i dont enjoy something i wont stick around - bollox. again dont tell me my history or who i am. ive submitted to plenty of things i didnt enjoy because He wanted to do it and i was expected to submit to it. my submission kept me there, often nothing to do with giving him pleasure either, often it was just my grit determination to get through it because to do anything else would have renaiged on who i was to him.

dont try to understand that, its beyond you. give youre brain a break, its just not absorbing anything at all. you have youre ideas and you stick to them, good luck with that and may they serve you well in the future.

but i have to say this. if you really are hoping to find youreself a sub some day, you should put some time and effort into understanding us, or you wont keep her for long - she will exercise her ultimate control over you (note thats sarcasm) and push you out the door. and maybe thats already happened and maybe thats why youre still trying to justify youre point against overwhelming dissent from people whove been doing this for bloody years. you need to start absorbing some of this.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 1/31/2011 3:59:11 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 65

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 3:34:29 PM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

"allow" is a weird grey area in power exchange relationships (have you visited the "thanks for the permission" thread by any chance? yes, in a sense, a sub "allows" a Dom to punish him/her by not running away or calling the police or whatever, but many people just don't see it that way. for many, it's internalized in such a way that refusing a punishment is NOT a right they possess. just because a sub gets pleasure from being pleasing doesn't mean that an actual punishment is in any way pleasing.
the whole is greater than the parts -- the entire relationship might include a few things you don't like here and there, but the entire whole -- the daily reality of the relationship -- is worth more than any of those small little things. there are some things you do as a sub that you don't like or understand, and the pleasure is just in the "it makes him happy," thing, and there are other things where the "it makes him happy" thing doesn't always justify it, but you do it anyway, because the reality is worth more.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 66

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 4:51:19 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
to some anything we do is abuse

Irrelevant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
"allow" is a weird grey area in power exchange relationships (have you visited the "thanks for the permission" thread by any chance? yes, in a sense, a sub "allows" a Dom to punish him/her by not running away or calling the police or whatever, but many people just don't see it that way.

Whether they see it that way or not, that's the way it is.

quote:

for many, it's internalized in such a way that refusing a punishment is NOT a right they possess. just because a sub gets pleasure from being pleasing doesn't mean that an actual punishment is in any way pleasing.

Whether they ever choose to exercise the right, whether they even admit they have the right to withdraw consent, they have it. Again, that's just the way it is. No amount of collaring, contracts, brands, tattoos or registration numbers remove the submissive's right to withdraw consent. The only thing stopping the submissive is the submissive.

My use of the word "you" in the following is not meant to be directed at LillyBoPeep personally.

It's been clear to me for a quite a while (long before I showed up here) that many people (doms and subs) are just not comfortable with the notion that the submissive is the ultimate shot-caller in any scene or relationship. But that's the way it is. And barring a jurisdiction which allows legal non-consensual relationship, nothing can change that. That's why I don't have to personally know anyone regarding this issue. It's a matter of law and logic. I would not tell someone "At some point, your dom will do something to cause you to withdraw consent." I can't predict the future any more than a sub who says "I would never say no to my dom." But law and logic say you always have the right to withdraw consent. And you cannot change that, however much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

< Message edited by Chulain -- 1/31/2011 5:00:50 PM >

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 67

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 5:02:58 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

lally,

At least 6 people in this thread have tried to patiently explain things and correct his misconceptions.

But nope, the only reality that is correct is his reality and he is defining the terms of all of our relationships: past, present and future.

I had left the thread and then thought I could answer just one more question.

It won't matter how many questions he asks, because as you can see he really isn't interested in any of the answers.
He already knows them ALL.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 68

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 5:04:25 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

But law and logic say you always have the right to withdraw consent. And you cannot change that, however much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

Law and logic are not the final arbitars in matters of the heart. Having the right does not give one the ability no matter how much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 69

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 5:16:56 PM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

same old stuff I have refuted over and over countless times

Refuted? That implies somebody--anybody--is convinced by your arguments. That hasn't happened. It won't happen.

You've been on these boards for three days, already have 243 posts, and you have yet to say anything that amounts to a proof.

I'm thinking you are an attention troll. I, for one, am no longer going to indulge you and your self-congratulations.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 70

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 5:22:10 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

Because when I choose to submit to someone, it's not just the good times, or the sexy times, I submit to them. And if I'm not behaving, or got to mouthy, or forgot just WHO I was talking to and got a little to rude,,* and I did now and then get to "big for my breeches"* and he deemed it nessesary to tan my hide for my disrespect, I dont suddenly become not his submissive and say oh no you don't, you're not tanning my hide to teach me a lesson. I could of chosen to end the relationship by refusing to take his punishment, could of decided that his authority over me didn't include tanning my hide when I stepped over a line bad enough. But hide tannings and punishments were something I agreed to submit to when I agreed to submit to him and give him authority over me.

I chose to be his submissive, and like I said before, that's not something I choose to do only when it's good fun sexy oh me likey likey time. That was in everything.

It's sort of like if I give you my car and tell you, you can use it in absolutely anyway you see fit, and then tell you 10 days later, oh wait nope, I take it back you can't use it anyway you want like I previously said, you can only use it to go back and forth from the grocery store, and not to speed down 5th avenue in a drag race. I have changed the deal. I gave my car to you under one understanding, now a false understanding and in mid use changed the rules of using my car because I felt like it.

If you give someone authority over you, and that goes for the authority to whip your ass when you done fucked up bad enough to deserve an asswhooping, you don't suddenly the authority back and change the rules of engagement mid stride.

I submitted myself to him we had a relationship dynamic in place that didn't change the moment I didn't like something he did., it wasn't I submit to your authority only when it's something I like, or only when it gets me what I want, and then when very real pain and consequences are involved from fucking up I change and call halt to what I agreed to give you.

I owned the fact I screwed up so bad I had something unpleasant coming. When you screw up in a relationship dynamic that includes punishment you don't submit to him up to and until the punishment you submit to him, by taking the punishment. I didn't do it because it made him happy, and I took pride in making him happy, nor because in some way I enjoyed it if he enjoyed it, neither of us enjoyed the outcome my bad behavior had brought on. I did it because I signed up to submit to him to having the authority to correct my behavior if I fucked up bad enough to have it corrected, and wasn't going to change that negotiation mid relationship, just because it hurt to have my butt whooped.

If that's not something you understand no amount of explaining will make you understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

Oh yeah? Then why did you allow him to "punish?" you? You were in a totally voluntary, consnesual relationship. What made you take it? What stopped you from saying no? You desire to please him? Then you got your enjoyment from pleasing him. That's how lots of (maybe most?) submissive get their enjoyment.

Why do so many submissivestry yo make it sound like being a submissive is at times like some horrible chore they have to endure? You don't have to do anything within the consensaul, romantic context of your voluntary, consensual relationships. The only thing making you do it is you. And if you didn't, on some level, enjoy it, you would not submit.

_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 71

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 5:31:56 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: January
Refuted? That implies somebody--anybody--is convinced by your arguments. That hasn't happened. It won't happen.

OK, ostrich-person.

quote:

I, for one, am no longer going to indulge you and your self-congratulations.

No longer? I think this is the first time you ever replied to me, silly one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Law and logic are not the final arbitars in matters of the heart. Having the right does not give one the ability no matter how much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

But they are final arbiters on whether you have the right to withdraw consent. You have the right to withdraw consent, at any time, for any reason, no matter how much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

< Message edited by Chulain -- 1/31/2011 5:37:23 PM >

(in reply to January)

Post #: 72

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 6:05:35 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

But they are final arbiters on whether you have the right to withdraw consent. You have the right to withdraw consent, at any time, for any reason, no matter how much it bothers you to acknowledge it.

It does not bother me in the least to acknowledge that there are laws which provide consequences for certain actions. Of course, that they go into effect *after* the deed doesn't do a whole lot for me, yanno?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 73

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 8:16:26 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
It does not bother me in the least to acknowledge that there are laws which provide consequences for certain actions. Of course, that they go into effect *after* the deed doesn't do a whole lot for me, yanno?

Your ability to withdraw consent exists always, before or during an act (I guess after is a little late).

<Grit my teeth> Barring criminal acts (or living in a jurisdiction where real slavery is legal), there is nothing a dominant can do to deny you the benefits of withdrawing consent.

I can say it 12 more times, one for each day of the week, if it will help: barring criminal acts, the only one stopping you from withdrawing consent is you.

OK, that was only 1 more time, but I can still do it 11 more. You know you want to see me do it 11 more times.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 74

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 8:34:43 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

<Grit my teeth>

You're going to wear down your enamel.

quote:

Barring criminal acts (or living in a jurisdiction where real slavery is legal), there is nothing a dominant can do to deny you the benefits of withdrawing consent.

I take it you have never been compelled to do anything before? It's a kick. You should try it.

quote:

I can say it 12 more times, one for each day of the week, if it will help:

Help what?

quote:

barring criminal acts, the only one stopping you from withdrawing consent is you.

Actually, no.. it's him. He compels me thataway. It's nice to know I have legal recourse should that change, though.

quote:

OK, that was only 1 more time, but I can still do it 11 more. You know you want to see me do it 11 more times.

Probably.. I do have a huge voyeuristic streak.. are you going to be sending videos or should I just look for photos?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 75

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 8:54:30 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
You're going to wear down your enamel.

I keep a spare in my other pants.

quote:

I take it you have never been compelled to do anything before? It's a kick. You should try it.

What do you mean by "compelled?" And I'm not looking for a link to dictionary.com, here.

quote:

Help what?

Why, help restore Padme to her throne, what else?

quote:

Actually, no.. it's him. He compels me thataway. It's nice to know I have legal recourse should that change, though.

OK, but what's he gonna do if you don't go along? And please don't say "That would never happen."

quote:

Probably.. I do have a huge voyeuristic streak.

You can cover that with make-up, probably.

quote:

are you going to be sending videos or should I just look for photos?

Yes, look for even more explicit photos on my exhausting, I mean, exhaustive, profile. I'm all about the photos.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 76

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 9:34:04 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

What do you mean by "compelled?" And I'm not looking for a link to dictionary.com, here.

Now there is a good question, one worthy of a thoughtful and well considered answer. I'll get back to you.

quote:

Why, help restore Padme to her throne, what else?

We'll have to do Star Wars vs Star Trek on another thread. It's very obvious where I stand on that issue.

quote:

OK, but what's he gonna do if you don't go along? And please don't say "That would never happen."

Probably remind me of the vow that I made to him, ask me what sort of slave I thought I was, why I thought it was okay to refuse when I promised I never would. He would force me to consider my own definitions of the words I use, the thoughts and feelings of what that means to me in my own raw and peeled back core. He's a dominant.. that's sort of his thing. Why? What would you do?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 77

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 9:41:44 PM

Chulain

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
We'll have to do Star Wars vs Star Trek on another thread. It's very obvious where I stand on that issue.

Doesn't Spock call Uhura "Bita Trouble with Tribbles" in the new Star Trek?

quote:

OK, but what's he gonna do if you don't go along? And please don't say "That would never happen."

Probably remind me of the vow that I made to him, ask me what sort of slave I thought I was, why I thought it was okay to refuse when I promised I never would. He would force me to consider my own definitions of the words I use, the thoughts and feelings of what that means to me in my own raw and peeled back core. He's a dominant.. that's sort of his thing.
What if you changed your mind?

quote:

Why? What would you do?

Wait a minute, am I the dom or the sub now?

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 78

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 10:22:48 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

What if you changed your mind?

He'd probably go into full blown FDA (that's Fucking Dom Attitude for those unfamilar with my TrubledTimes editions) and dominate my ass straight into compliance because he knows I react to that sorta thing. Bronx Doms.. whatcha gonna do? It's why I wanted him in the first place.

quote:

Wait a minute, am I the dom or the sub now?

Dominant.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Chulain)

Post #: 79

RE: Disppointing Master - 1/31/2011 10:33:54 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

~FR~

BITA!! *hugs* I hope you both are well! good to see you posting!

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 80

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