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RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/3/2006 8:51:50 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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I am sorry, but where the HELL do you get off deciding what is right and wrong for the rest of the world...I don't recall seeing your name on the ballot for Queen of the World.
You are entitled to your own viewpoint, but please spare us the holier than thou if it ain't my way its wrong crap

< Message edited by Arpig -- 5/3/2006 8:52:30 PM >

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Post #: 81

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 1:54:20 AM

DigitBox

Posts: 154
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHouseOfHussey

Just Curious on what the BDSM Community Thinks.....

You have to be 21 to buy a glass of beer
You have to be 21 to go into a night club
You have to be 21 to go to a bdsm private club and most fettish events

So with that in mind what do you think about this?

A 18 yr old girl, still in high school, living with Mom and Dad being collared as a beta slave to a older married man? To clarify the man in question is 25 plus years her senior.

1. The girl has not finished her education in high school nor started college, education should be her first concern.
2. She lives at home with Mom and Dad and they do not know about her lifestyle. If she can not be upfront with Mom and Dad, how can she be true to herself?
3. She is barely 18, has she had time to grow and mature? Has she had time to become a woman mentally? Has she had any true relationships or just puppy love or lust? Is slavery a fantasy for her, or does she truly know what a collar means?

Now I know the arguement that some girls are more mature than others, but you have to ask yourself what does a 18 yr old girl want with a older married man?

my humble opinion it is just so wrong on so many levels!

hmmmmmm............what is you opinion?

Please keep in mind no mentioning of names, flame wars or hate speeches....this thread is meant as a educational poll on the question at hand and nothing more.

My first Dom guy was while I was living at home with my mom. I was just asking for trouble with that.

Mom got nosey and it completely failed to go anywhere with him because of having to try and hide that. My mother is very very nosey. Plus she is a prude to the nth degree.

I only really got to do what I wanted once I left mom's and lived on my own.

I think that's a good starting point to when it's good to try and do what she wants to do. She can go away to college so she doesn't have to live at home and then she can do what she wants, and get an education to help her in finding work.

While she's under her parents roof there is always the risk of freaking them out and getting turfed out the door for her activities. Parents can be cruel and judgemental.

Oh yeah and my first was 65 yrs old when I met him. I was 27 years old at that time. Yeah not really the same thing as being 18, and he wasn't married. But still the age thing with the right person can be a non issue. The biggest issue I've had with older partners is the generation gap making it harder to relate to one another.

< Message edited by DigitBox -- 5/4/2006 2:09:33 AM >

(in reply to TheHouseOfHussey)

Post #: 82

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 4:52:01 AM

CanadianGuy

Posts: 219
Status: offline

Old enough for sex? Old enough for the kind of sex they want. Why should anyone be forced to be vanilla for a certain number of years before it's "okay" for them to follow their instincts? It makes me so mad when people say you can't be submissive or dominant until you're a certain age. WTF? If we're to believe that domination and submission are natural things, and I certainly do, then when a person is maturing sexually, they're becoming ready to start exploring their sexuality - not just missionary sex quietly with the lights off.

My girl was 7 when she had her first sexual thoughts - a man taking her away someplace to touch her and "lie down" on her. She was 11 when she started masturbating - to the though of being a sex object for a man. She's 17 now and we've been talking online 3 years. She was 16 when I met her in person last summer.

Legal age in Canada is 14, btw.

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 83

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:22:33 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
We all know that when we were 18 we knew everything...and wouldnt be told otherwise.

Actually growing up, my friends and I never thought this. We were all quite confused and scared and overwhelmed over a lot of things. We never had illusions that we knew everything and could fix everything. If anything, we couldn't wait to get older so we'd reach that magical adult place of knowing the answers.

If I could ask for a refund on that, I would.

I think it's a common fallacy to suggest that younger people always think they know everything. True, most younger people feel they know better on certain things (and in some cases- THEY DO), but that's a far cry from feeling completely superior. That sort of mindset has no age limit.

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Post #: 84

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:24:56 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CanadianGuy

Legal age in Canada is 14, btw.

Looks like I know where I'll be moving next.

(in reply to CanadianGuy)

Post #: 85

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:27:32 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
This is pretty well summed up, girlie. If a girl can be lead to understand her nature earlier, the labyrinth can most certainly be shortened.

Eh, it's a double edged sword. Sure, you'll be able to skip the "tried vanilla, now stuck with divorce and kids that wasn't true to who I am" thing (maybe), but you'll also be faced with threads and perspectives like these constantly telling you that you really can't have ANY idea what you think you know and that if you suggest anything otherwise you'll just be told that you're an arrogant youngster who thinks she knows it all and will end up completely messed up later in life, if not lying in a gutter dead somewhere.

It'd be nice to have a bit more support rather than just door slamming for those. But, it's my theory that the TNG group will become a larger and larger part of the scene community and it won't be quite as severe a problem in the coming generations.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 86

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:36:02 AM

Cristalin

Posts: 84
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

Facts: in my country, legal age is 18
Facts: i`ve been invited to participate at a special sceneplay, the initiation of a virgin 17 years old slave...she was trained for about 4 months and her master thinks it is time for her to have her first session.
Well now i wonder if this wouldn`t be against the law...of course she consents, of course she wants it...but legaly she is still underaged...i still have doubts about her maturity...by being present at this session would this make me a criminal?...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 87

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:50:38 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Seems like i missed the fun and i'm too lazy to read 5 pages. sounds like yall have been argueing! i should be suprised. So whatcha argueing about? Hmmmm at 15/ 16 i was with a 27 y/o, he thought i was 18 for awhile. When i was 15 all of my guy friends and boyfriends were much older then me. Dated a guy who was like 25 and he thought it cool that i was the same as his sister.. but his sister was 17 <grins> Erm.. i hung out alot with a 30 year old, funny i was only 3 years older then his son. Course he didnt know that. He thought i was 18 i think. Then there was this other male friend i hung out with, who i dun remember how old he was.. but i was 15! Then there was CJ who was.. erm 26 maybe.. he thought i was 18. He befriended, me as i suppose i was abit more naive then i thought, he told me he didnt want me ending up on the front page of the newspaper = ) Course there was Adam and who ever his brother was.. Adam was round the same age of everyone else.. he was disapointed that i found some one else to watch out for me. <grins> Generally, i hung out with an older crowd. 20 and up atleast. Who they generally all thought i was 18. Heck i was in all the clubs, all the club owners, doormen and some of the bartenders knew me. LOL sometimes i'd help the club owners get rid of the HS kids and tell em all the cops were going to raid. <grins> They all generally looked out for me.. as some one once told me.. "hey, you're the girl in the corner always off her rocker" Though i did have friends my age = ) Who all knew i was 15. My best friend was 16.. heck i knew most of the HS kids. My best friend and i pretty much linked all the cliques that used to party downtown.

Funniest thing.. when i turned 16.. i wasnt sure which "age" to celebrate. Should i celebrate turning 16, 17, 18 or 19? Now i'm sure some thought i was 17 and some thought i was 16.. but i dun remember who. Though i did have a private chuckle over it!

How old is old enough? Well i was certianly old enough at 15. i knew what i was doing, i helped out the club owners, i had the HS'ers come to me for advice.. it was MY area - and if you screwed me over it was not intelligent to come downtown. Even this one.. er.. person, who had picked me up and kissed me.. his well.. boss i suppose you say, assured me he wouldnt be around anymore.

Was i old enough? Sure. i had the world by the balls. Was i naive and innocent and didnt understand what the hell i was in the midst of? Sure as hell. Sure, i ran around, hundreds of ppl knew me. But did i really know? Nooooo way. i had NO CLUE. Finding out there were prostitutes in my club shocked the heck out of me so much that i barely believed it. Or that ppl were "getting it on" in my club. Did i know about the evils.. dangers? Nah.. i had no clue what the world was like. Though i did know that if i ever needed the Triads it was a phone call away

Old enough is subjective. You're old enough as soon as you have a brain that you know how to use, old enough is when no one has authority over you and you make your own decisions.

but.. naive, inexperienced and knowing what you're getting into... whole nother story

Luckily i had many many people who seemed to have spotted my innocence and looked out for me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 88

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 6:53:05 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

.but legaly she is still underaged...i still have doubts about her maturity...by being present at this session would this make me a criminal?...

Who cares about legalities? Do those that are sworn to up hold our laws, follow every law to the T? Does even our goverment follow its own laws? Everyone picks and chooses which laws they want to follow? Wear your seatbelt always? Never spit? In some states blowjobs and anal is illegal. Follow those laws?

Who cares about the laws? They're BS and generally - everyone does what they like.

Its about common sense

(in reply to Cristalin)

Post #: 89

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/4/2006 7:30:08 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
This is pretty well summed up, girlie. If a girl can be lead to understand her nature earlier, the labyrinth can most certainly be shortened.

Eh, it's a double edged sword. Sure, you'll be able to skip the "tried vanilla, now stuck with divorce and kids that wasn't true to who I am" thing (maybe), but you'll also be faced with threads and perspectives like these constantly telling you that you really can't have ANY idea what you think you know and that if you suggest anything otherwise you'll just be told that you're an arrogant youngster who thinks she knows it all and will end up completely messed up later in life, if not lying in a gutter dead somewhere.

It'd be nice to have a bit more support rather than just door slamming for those. But, it's my theory that the TNG group will become a larger and larger part of the scene community and it won't be quite as severe a problem in the coming generations.

~ chuckles ~ Trust me, LA, I would much rather have spent my time facing these perspectives than where I actually was. Plus, by the time I was 18, I had experienced plenty of "vanilla," absent the marriage part. So...all these years of vanilla, a 17+ year marriage, no children, lots of baggage to recover from. It didn't buy me what I needed, that's for sure.

The problem with being 18 and from an abusive household was the inability to differentiate healthy dominance from abuse. And..at 18 I didn't know what these submissive feelings were. I simply didn't have the knowledge. If I had....things would have worked out differently.

Anyway, at the age of 18 I was living in my own apartment and supporting myself with two jobs. 18 year olds DO have the capacity to retain knowledge and strength. I was already serving my boyfriends back then, I just didn't know it.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 90

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 3:39:13 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Obis
I think it's generally a bad idea for anyone 18-20 or so to be in a major committed relationship, as they're just starting out with independence and should be exploring more rather than settling down. But that applies to ANY form of intimiate relationships, and they never heed my advice anyways

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I think it's up to the individual, but I'm certainly going to wait on a serious relationship, vanilla or not.

It took me eighteen years to get some freedom, which I've enjoyed for about a little over a year and a half now. Why would I want to give that up, just when I'm getting used to it?

I was a total basket case at sixteen, a lot better at eighteen, and worlds better today. I'll have a lot more to offer in a few years ... more maturity, education, maybe even breasts.

Finally a girl listens to me, years after I leave Houston

*sigh*, I shoulda gone to Rice...

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 91

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 3:42:51 PM

SweetEscravo

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

Hmm, well, at eightteen myself, I am finishing high school, still living with my parents and all the rest. I know I want to be submissive...maybe some of us just realise it earlier than others?

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 92

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 3:52:27 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear TheHouseofHussy, Ladies and Gentlemen;

How Old is Enough --

For me, Old enough is when they're still breathing on their own, without having to tow an air bottle around with them or laying on a stretcher due to old age and near death's door.

Retired mature men are attractive to me. Young men in their 40's are eye candy and men younger makes me feel ...nebbermind.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 93

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 6:34:28 PM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

Greeting to all

Some may not like this but i think a person who is
18 does not have the mind to know all he or needs. She
should be out having fun, at 18 and someone is training her
it will be way to easy to train her and that is not fun. Even a guy
at 18 does not have the mind to cope with what is really going
on. so no i think it is wrong she is just to young. so many thing are wrong
with going out with 18 for the purpose of making him or her a slave. They will
either grown out of it or ran aways, the only way a child and she is a child would
stay in that is if she is made to stay by fear( ok this is extreme point so no one jump on me please

take care

mon/jane

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 94

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 6:47:10 PM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

To OP:
At 15 I was first introduced to both BDSM and D/s by a rather lovely older woman, I was relitivly inexperienced (Only been sexualy active at all for two years at that point) but it most certainly wasn't exploitation and I was 6' tall and looked a number of years older as well so it wasn't anything 'seedy' on her part either.

Sure SOME 18 year olds are imature and it wouldn't be good for them, but you can say the same about 21 yoar olds, 25 year olds, 50 or 60 year olds, imaturity isn't always corrected by physical aging. Fact is that if the law doesn't preclude what they are doing then it isn't up to you, me or anyone else to pass judgement in such a generic sweeping manner.

Certainly given my own history, it would be somewhat hypocritical if I did anyhow!

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(in reply to mons)

Post #: 95

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 7:15:26 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Now I know the arguement that some girls are more mature than others, but you have to ask yourself what does a 18 yr old girl want with a older married man?

Motivation doesn't matter. She's an adult and can legally decide her own path. She's the one who will have to contend with any consequences from her actions and inactions. Truly, it's no one's business but the parties involved. There are no criminals here, simply consenting adults. That's all it takes in my book. My advice would be to tread with care, but the choice is her own.

Celeste

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to TheHouseOfHussey)

Post #: 96

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/5/2006 7:37:31 PM

darq

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline

I noticed the comment (and I'm not sure who originally said it and I'm too lazy to go back through 5 pages to find the original quote) that what does an 18 year old want with a married 53 year old man?

Well, speaking from the perspective of a younger woman who has enjoyed relaitonships with older men ...

She may be seeking experience from him. He's married, so she knows she won't be pressured to marry him herself. His age alone means that he has seen more of life, is more experienced, knows more and can teach her more than much younger men. Also, for a lot of men, with experience comes confidence and confidence is attractive.

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Post #: 97

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/6/2006 3:18:20 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

There are so many aspects of this to be addressed that it's hard to find the right place to begin.

1. an 18 year old -may- be old enough to make the decision about exploring his or her role in the cycle of dominance and submission all around us. This is the time in our lives when we experiment with a -lot- of things. Taking a position as a beta submissive with an experienced individual seems like a good way to learn about something that isn't all that easy to learn about -except- through experience. If this includes an exploration of her sexuality and her feelings about pain, pleasure and personal intensity, those are also age-appropriate explorations.

2. Evaluating this particular person's maturity is a matter for the dominant. If he's ready to deal with young adult behaviors, insecurities, curiosities and wishy-washiness, then this may be a great opportunity for both of them.

3. I've known enough people who are exploring areas of their lives outside of school to know that being in school doesn't have to be the entirety of a person's existence. As long as she's still finishing school, exploring her position in the dominance and submission scheme seems like an age-appropriate series of questions to be asking.

4. This may not be (and is likely not to be) her last relationship, BDSM or otherwise. For some reason, we've gotten it into our heads that you need to pick ONE person, date them a few weeks, and then marry them -- what ever happened to the process of meeting many people, and seeing how different people fit into our lives before settling down with one person. The individual she's involved with is already in a relationship, so it seems to me that, if she wanted to explore JUST the aspects of her life that fit under BDSM, it would make perfect sense to do it in a framework that -wouldn't- be attached to a permanent commitment right off the get-go.

5. As far as her living with her parents and not telling them about her BDSM explorations... having raised several saplings, one of which is a full adult in his own right and the others not far behind him, I can tell you with all honesty that even the most forthright children don't tell their parents everything about what explorations they're making -- especially where intensely personal things like sex and dominance/submission are involved. While being in a marital relationship (or even a pre-marital relationship with a defined commitment) means taking responsibility for sharing with one's partner the things that will affect both and the relationship, I don't think there is that same requirement for parents. We eventually have to let go of our seedlings and let them get on in the world. They'll probably do many things over the course of their lives that we don't approve of, or that -we- wouldn't do... but they're living their own lives as adults, and parents need to know when to advise, but let the saplings make their own decisions. By 18, that's a HUGE landmark for a parent to not expect to have everything discussed and announced, and have the sapling in a position to make his or her own mistakes. I keep an open door. When mine screw up, I'm willing to advise -- but they know that every decision they make, they'll have to take responsibility for, so they don't ask me to fix their mistakes... just give them ideas to help them figure out how to fix the mistakes themselves.

My only concern is whether the dominant in question is being honest with his wife about the relationship with this girl. If not, my questions would be more about his capacity to be an effective dominant (if he can't even be honest in the relationship he's already in) than whether or not -she- is ready to be in the situation because of -her- issues.

Frankly, I expect a new explorer on this path to be a bit (ok, a LOT) immature about it. We gain maturity, in part, through learning experiences, and if she doesn't have any, she'll be immature and have unrealistic expectations until she -does- have some experiences to temper her.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 5/6/2006 3:27:26 AM >

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(in reply to TheHouseOfHussey)

Post #: 98

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/6/2006 7:15:40 AM

Wolf1020

Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline

Just keep in mind that it was NOT that long ago if she was that old and not married (quite often to someone twice her age depending on culture and social status) people would be wondering what the hell was wrong with her or her parents. We have created the notion of "child" "teen" and "adult". This very recent and in some parts of the world still none existent. That isn't to say that I'd go out with a fourteen year old, I personally don't want to end up in jail with Bubba who has a twinkle in his eye for me. But the age of consent is something very recent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If she is ready she is ready and if it goes south she will learn on her own. Plenty of things you do I am sure others think is appalling.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 99

RE: How Old Is Old Enough? - 5/6/2006 11:14:55 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

Does anyone believe that the ability to be objective about this topic is hindered by the fact that they have teenage children?....whether they are males...or females?
I have to admit to being absolutely livid when i discovered that my then 15 yr old (he's 18 now) had a sexual interlude with a 34 year old woman..

(in reply to Wolf1020)

Post #: 100

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