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This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 12:24:51 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		It's OUT.
 
http://www.sfexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/breaking-federal-judge-rules-obamacare-unconstitutional
 
Or, as one of the judges hearing one of these suits (I believe the judge hearing just the Va case) asked: "If they can make me do this, why can't they make me buy broccoli"?

I especially like his dismissal of the totally dishonest way the Congress passed the bill, stating that the fines for not buying insurance were not a tax! not a tax!! not a fucking tax!!! and then arguing in court "Well, of course it's a tax. Any idiot can see it's a fuckin tax". In other words, the bill may fail to pass Constitutional muster because of the dishonest political fig leaf used to cover 0bama0s ass while it was shoved through Congress. He wrote:

Congress should not be permitted to secure and cast politically difficult votes on controversial legislation by deliberately calling something one thing, after which the defenders of that legislation take an “Alice-in-Wonderland” tack and argue in court that Congress really meant something else entirely, thereby circumventing the safeguard that exists to keep their broad power in check
 

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 1/31/2011 12:40:38 PM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 12:54:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Another critical aspect of this ruling is that he noted that the individual mandate is not severable from the rest of the law, and that makes the entire law unconstitutional.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 12:56:50 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		ROFLMAO... Well not that this has been cleared up....we can move onto other issues.
Do you two really think this is the last word?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 1/31/2011 12:58:13 PM >

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 12:58:06 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I imagine they will go find a judge that will rule it is severable in the not too distant future.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:22:13 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		It is well-nigh inconceivable that even Harry Reid and his staff couldn't remember to insert a boilerplate severability clause.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:24:17 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Were I , God forbid, an 0bama0 supporter, I would hope it is the last word, or at least that the death rattle comes soon. This albatross can take him down in 2012.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:25:31 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I'd love to see the legal precedent for your opinion on that one.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:37:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

It is well-nigh inconceivable that even Harry Reid and his staff couldn't remember to insert a boilerplate severability clause.


Staffer in a Christmas Eve email: "Mr. Reid, shouldnt we make any parts of the bill that are declared unlawful severable from the rest of the bill".

Harry Reid: "How could any part of this Boxing Day gift be unlawful".

Staffer: "Well, maybe the individual mandate wont be considered a tax and declared unconstitutional"

Harry Reid: "Then we've got bigger problems, because without the individual mandate CBO would price this as costing trillions of dollars. A severability clause would only result in that being highlighted and giving someone the bright idea to ask CBO the question."

Staffer: "Your call, Sir!"

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:38:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/unions-lose-again-in-oklahoma/

here is one that would provide that precedent, I am not going to bother digging for the actual case, but note under the heading ---  Judge disagrees, and what he said about severability.  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 1:38:57 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

It's OUT.
 
http://www.sfexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/breaking-federal-judge-rules-obamacare-unconstitutional
 
Or, as one of the judges hearing one of these suits (I believe the judge hearing just the Va case) asked: "If they can make me do this, why can't they make me buy broccoli"?

I especially like his dismissal of the totally dishonest way the Congress passed the bill, stating that the fines for not buying insurance were not a tax! not a tax!! not a fucking tax!!! and then arguing in court "Well, of course it's a tax. Any idiot can see it's a fuckin tax". In other words, the bill may fail to pass Constitutional muster because of the dishonest political fig leaf used to cover 0bama0s ass while it was shoved through Congress. He wrote:

Congress should not be permitted to secure and cast politically difficult votes on controversial legislation by deliberately calling something one thing, after which the defenders of that legislation take an “Alice-in-Wonderland” tack and argue in court that Congress really meant something else entirely, thereby circumventing the safeguard that exists to keep their broad power in check
 



thank you thank you thank you!

Therein is precisely what I have been talking about!

first no legislature in ANY state that I am aware of is mandated to pass law in conformance with the "CONSTITUTION"!!!.

they can throw any shit at the wall that they want and let the courts sort it out.

Everything beyond the 12th amend should be repealed and redone in accord with the first 10 and the BOR etc.

Its a fucking joke.

Supposed to have 3 well actually 4 branches of government but we only have one and it all falls onto the courts and the courts are US Courts under commerce.

The 4th branch was supposed to be the people and they even stole the power there.

Fucking attorneys get judges to overturn the courts standing which is completely a usurpation of the power of a fully empowered jury.  They do it and are not in prison because attorneys dont give a fuck and people dont know any better so the beat goes on and get worse everyday!   Now they are tazering people and killing hem on the side of the road.  idiots.

When a judge violates the constitution, his trustee duties the penalty is treason to hung by the neck until they are dead dead dead!



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/31/2011 1:39:45 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:11:24 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I'd love to see the legal precedent for your opinion on that one.


How about from the Virginia ruling you are so happy with?


Florida judge rules health care law is unconstitutional


The final step will almost certainly be the U.S. Supreme Court. Two other federal judges have already upheld the law and a federal judge in Virginia ruled the insurance mandate unconstitutional but stopped short of voiding the entire thing.



(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:24:23 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Leave it to the Republicans to celebrate a ruling that would leave millions in the United States without health insurance.

And if the government mandate on Health insurance is unconstitutional, then the requirement to own car insurance falls under the same ruling.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:26:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Relax. It's just theater.

When the states get done wasting money on this, we'll move on.

Besides, still to be determined is whether they even have standing.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/31/2011 2:27:02 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:26:27 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Well. You tried. I'll give you that.
This is an analysis (by an economics professor) of  a case meant to overturn a state law. From his essay:
"The unions argued that since these two provisions of the Oklahoma law are clearly invalid, and since it does not include a severability clause, the whole law must be overturned. Again, Judge Seay disagreed with the unions. The issue of severability is a matter of state law, and Oklahoma has an umbrella statute that states that "the provisions of every act or application of the act shall be severable unless the act contains a non-severability clause."

How anyone can think this has any impact- any impact, let alone one favorable to your previous post- baffles me. 

I knew of no exceptions to the severability principle in federal Constitutional law before I read the link. I still don't.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:29:59 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And if the government mandate on Health insurance is unconstitutional, then the requirement to own car insurance falls under the same ruling.


What a disingenuous canard. Owning a car is an activity voluntary to a degree not commonly associated with just living.

Remember, if this stand they can force you to buy asparagus. And Chevies. At times of their chosing.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:32:15 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		26 states are parties to the lawsuits against this.
It's dead.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:41:14 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

26 states are parties to the lawsuits against this.
It's dead.


So we have two judges who ruled it constitutional, one who did not, and one who decided only the requirement to buy was unconstitutional.

And this somehow ads up to the entire law being dead?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:43:44 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

26 states are parties to the lawsuits against this.
It's dead.

It's theater.

Next act, standing.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 2:50:16 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Well. You tried. I'll give you that.
This is an analysis (by an economics professor) of  a case meant to overturn a state law. From his essay:
"The unions argued that since these two provisions of the Oklahoma law are clearly invalid, and since it does not include a severability clause, the whole law must be overturned. Again, Judge Seay disagreed with the unions. The issue of severability is a matter of state law, and Oklahoma has an umbrella statute that states that "the provisions of every act or application of the act shall be severable unless the act contains a non-severability clause."

How anyone can think this has any impact- any impact, let alone one favorable to your previous post- baffles me. 

I knew of no exceptions to the severability principle in federal Constitutional law before I read the link. I still don't.


Read what the judge DID say, fuck the professor.

Actually in our terms of discussion it is called the severablility doctrine, and there are no exceptions because the law doesn't exist, and never has, Federallyu, only the reasoning behind why rulings are made the way they are.

Again, severability in the law is in the law, at state levels, at county levels, at township levels, at who gives a fuck levels.

There is no question of severability in the US Constitution, which then means the severability DOCTRINE will apply, and that is paraphrased (badly) and in short, if the removal of the individual parts does not FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER the intent of the ENTIRE legislation, it is severable.

I cana bet any number of lawyers can convince any number of judges that with republicans saying out loud in front of god and everybody, that if they can't repeal the entire law, they will repeal odious parts of it, or defund odious parts of it.  Jesus H Shithouse Lawyerin'  Christ!!!! If that isn't proof of severability, Jesus was a catholic.   And again, they will find a judge that agrees with that, and we are on to a ruling by the supreme court at some point.

Unless you are going to throw every republican in congress in jail for the crime of  treason, that's what you are looking at.    

But we all know this isn't the end of it, and it is going to the Supreme Court.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/31/2011 2:52:20 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 1/31/2011 3:39:46 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		What I don't get is people don't want free health care and so many many thought the single payer system was just that...free health care.

So....nobody gets free health care and nobody wants to pay for healthcare.  I fully understand the "you can't make me" mentality...but which stance are people taking here?  Or have they just not figured it out yet, and are going with the ones who have the loudest scare tactic?


_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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