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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 4:39:14 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
In my mind, the "Anonymous" groups are near-cultlike...they don't advocate one true religion, but they do advocate one true way, reinforcing to group members that anything they try outside of the twelve steps is doomed to fail and that they need to surrender fully to the program.

This has not been my experience, although I have heard such reports concerning individual groups.  To the contrary, a variety of modalities is accepted or even encouraged.  There is a tradition of excluding discussion of these in group meetings in order to maintain focus on the approach suggested by the 12 Step program and to prevent controversy and confusion.

The personalities of the individual groups vary.  That's why it's suggested that one attend meetings of several different groups in order to decide for oneself whether the particular 12 Step program could be a solution.


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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 4:42:42 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I am an atheist, I don't believe in god, don't believe in higher powers, don't want god mentioned to me, don't want to be around people who're god believers, unless they keep it to themselves, and are ok with my complete disregard of Christianity, don't want anything to do with the subject, even in passing. It's a big barg of barf blech no thanks to me. I suppose if it was kept to an extreamly low roar I could tolerate religious overtones, maybe lol.

But I really was kind of interested in checking them out, the diabtes advice nurse recomended them for a good support network, even if you are not really quite an OE


If you can't even stand to be around people who mention god or a higher power or believe in something more then you definitely won't like any kind of addiction group.

Imo I think you should be seeking out a nutritionist/ dietary aide if you don't know how to feed yourself,  a dr or therapist who can show you how to eat correctly, what to eat, the values of the foods, etc...




< Message edited by littlewonder -- 2/1/2011 4:46:15 PM >

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 4:42:43 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"to prevent controversy "

Three little words.

T^T

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 4:56:32 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't agree with you.  Yes, the recovery program does encourage the suggestion of abstinence, working steps, attending meetings, etc.  However, they are very specific:

The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop.



Fair enough. I've been to twelve step meetings, and have known people who have gotten really into the program, and in my experience is that the standard line of thinking is that the only way you're going to overcome an addiction is by following the twelve steps, and 'surrendering' yourself to the program.

There's also the idea of "once an addict, always an addict" and the thought that in order to constantly fight your ever-present addiction, you need to continue to go to twelve step meetings indefinitely.

The way the first three steps usually plays out is by encouraging surrender over free will - other posters are right in that God isn't usually discussed at the meetings (in fact people are more likely to say "the program is my higher power" than to mention Jesus) but the crux of it is usually that behaving independently or trying to 'fix' the program to tailor yourself will doom you to failure.

Most of the twelve steps are just good advice - analyze your life, meditate on how to make it better, apologize to the people you've hurt, don't do it again. The interesting thing is that having a sponsor isn't in the steps...yet at the meetings it's pushed as a requirement to succeed (not a requirement to be there, of course, but you do get bombarded with "if you don't find a sponsor you'll relapse") and again to me that seems like indoctrination into groupthink.

The funny (and by funny I mean sad) thing is that I've seen people freaking out that if they don't go to their scheduled meeting, they'll relapse...and the only trigger for that relapse would be missing a meeting. I have seen people replace drug addiction with meeting addiction in ways that were destructive to their family and homelife. To me, seriously following the AA program (as opposed to just going to meetings) encourages co-dependency. YMMV.

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 5:27:32 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"to prevent controversy "

Three little words.

Such as arguments in group meetings about the efficacy or advantages of various treatment approaches, methods, medications, psychotherapies, rehab centers, etc. etc.  Each individual can pursue these as he/she wishes in whatever combination.  The Twelve Step program has no prerogative either endorsing or opposing any particular method.

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 5:30:49 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
In my mind, the "Anonymous" groups are near-cultlike...they don't advocate one true religion, but they do advocate one true way, reinforcing to group members that anything they try outside of the twelve steps is doomed to fail and that they need to surrender fully to the program.

This has not been my experience, although I have heard such reports concerning individual groups.  To the contrary, a variety of modalities is accepted or even encouraged.  There is a tradition of excluding discussion of these in group meetings in order to maintain focus on the approach suggested by the 12 Step program and to prevent controversy and confusion.

The personalities of the individual groups vary.  That's why it's suggested that one attend meetings of several different groups in order to decide for oneself whether the particular 12 Step program could be a solution.




To clarify, I wasn't talking about treatment in addition to the 12 steps, but treatment instead of the 12 steps.

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 5:36:34 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL Toppingfrmbottom
I am an atheist, I don't believe in god, don't believe in higher powers, don't want god mentioned to me, don't want to be around people who're god believers, unless they keep it to themselves, and are ok with my complete disregard of Christianity, don't want anything to do with the subject, even in passing. It's a big barg of barf blech no thanks to me. I suppose if it was kept to an extreamly low roar I could tolerate religious overtones, maybe lol.

But I really was kind of interested in checking them out...

In addition to trying out different groups, you can voice your concerns to people at the meetings you attend, either during sharing or individually.  You can also read the AA Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and Alcoholics Anonymous (aka the "Big Book") books to gain a better understanding of how 12 Step Recovery programs work and, in particular, the meaning of "Higher Power."

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 5:38:00 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
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Status: offline 		TFB,

I've been to OA for myself and taken friends and family to NA and AA. You can take what you like and leave the rest. I loathe TV commercials and online ads, but tune them out. Go to a few meetings and weigh the pros and cons.

One advantage to OA is that meetings are free and easy to find.

I personally found Weight Watchers more helpful in bringing awareness to my diet. (I was drinking at the time and was flabbergasted to realize how much empty calories I was consuming.)

The Weight Watchers meeting prices vary by location: http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/mtf/index.aspx

Best of luck,

KK

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 5:56:10 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
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Status: offline 		TFB
I'm in a 12-step program, and have been since I was 23, and been to 12-step meetings all over the country.  They are spiritual, but not religious. They are not allied with any sect, denomination or religious affiliation.  It is stated before every single 12-step meeting.  A higher power is not a divine being--it can be, if that's your belief system. Otherwise, many consider the "higher power" what we call "the group conscience."   Any group that claims to be a part of a religious group or denomination is in violation of AA's rules and is not permitted to use the literature, 12-steps or even the AA name.  (example: Homosexuals Anonymous is NOT an official, affiliated or sanctioned 12-step program)

It basically goes back to that those of us who suffer from addictions have completely lost control of our lives and have no ability to stop drinking/using on our own willpower alone.  It means we admit "defeat" essentially to our addiction--admit we can't control it-- it is an admission of powerless over our addiction--and learned humility and accountability for our actions.

The reference to God--as you understand God--a higher power.  There are MANY agnostics and atheists in AA, NA, etc.  Not everyone likes, or responds well to 12-step programs.  They are free....no dues or fees.... you can come and go as you please, do or not do.

I have no experience with OA other than my ex-wife used to go, but she did not enjoy the meetings and felt it wasn't the program for her.

For me, it has kept me clean and sober, and provided me with good advice and guidance that has helped me live a life filled with integrity, personal responsibility and honesty.
It's not a cult--I find that term highly objectionable.

I can go once--and never go back. No one asks me for money.  I can donate a buck to pay for the coffee I drank....the money also goes to pay the rent for the room (if charged)....or we use it to buy literature to distribute in prisons, halfway houses and institutions.

No one forces me to stay. No one manipulates my life.  If I don't like it, I can leave...and go out and drink as much as I want.  And the next day, I can go back...and people will still welcome me to sit down.  When I first started going, I was severely suffering from addiction--I went to a meeting daily.  Now, 18 years later, I go a few times a month...sometimes not at all unless I feel like I want to go.  Some AA's say that's not the right way...but the basics of the program do not say what's wrong and what's right.

In fact, membership in AA doesn't mean you have to stop drinking. You just have to have the desire to stop drinking.

I was NEVER told that if I left AA, I'd be doomed.  Instead, many said: go ahead. try it out. if it works for you, good for you. If it doesn't, there's always a seat for you.  You've probably never read Living Sober, an AA text. It states that if you aren't sure if AA is right for you, try stopping on your own or try doing some controlled drinking.  If it works for you, then good for you!  There are assholes in AA like anywhere else who try to put their own philosophy to it. 

Don't like AA or NA?  Doesn't work for you? don't go.  it's really simple. but a cult?  give me a break.  the only time I heard people say that were my friends who were active drunks, who were desperately trying to keep me from joining "the AA Cult" because they wanted me to hang in the bars with them instead.  THAT was much more cult like than a 12-step program.

But you cannot deny that a free program that does not cost anyone a cent to be a part of, has no professional affiliation and doesn't cost the system a dime....helps millions and millions of alcoholics and drug addicts get clean and sober and stay that way.  Many of us were people that "the system" (healthcare system) gave up on because we couldn't be helped.  Now we lead productive lives as a part of society, and we help others.

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 6:08:10 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't agree with you.  Yes, the recovery program does encourage the suggestion of abstinence, working steps, attending meetings, etc.  However, they are very specific:

The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop.



Fair enough. I've been to twelve step meetings, and have known people who have gotten really into the program, and in my experience is that the standard line of thinking is that the only way you're going to overcome an addiction is by following the twelve steps, and 'surrendering' yourself to the program.

There's also the idea of "once an addict, always an addict" and the thought that in order to constantly fight your ever-present addiction, you need to continue to go to twelve step meetings indefinitely.

The way the first three steps usually plays out is by encouraging surrender over free will - other posters are right in that God isn't usually discussed at the meetings (in fact people are more likely to say "the program is my higher power" than to mention Jesus) but the crux of it is usually that behaving independently or trying to 'fix' the program to tailor yourself will doom you to failure.

Most of the twelve steps are just good advice - analyze your life, meditate on how to make it better, apologize to the people you've hurt, don't do it again. The interesting thing is that having a sponsor isn't in the steps...yet at the meetings it's pushed as a requirement to succeed (not a requirement to be there, of course, but you do get bombarded with "if you don't find a sponsor you'll relapse") and again to me that seems like indoctrination into groupthink.

The funny (and by funny I mean sad) thing is that I've seen people freaking out that if they don't go to their scheduled meeting, they'll relapse...and the only trigger for that relapse would be missing a meeting. I have seen people replace drug addiction with meeting addiction in ways that were destructive to their family and homelife. To me, seriously following the AA program (as opposed to just going to meetings) encourages co-dependency. YMMV.


Again, not my experience.  Nowhere in the Big Book (AA's primary literature explaining what the 12-steps are about, and how they came about, and why they work for many) does it say you have to have a sponsor.  Nowhere in the 12-steps does it say that you have to go to meetings daily.

In fact, it DOES state that the 12-steps are SUGGESTED as a program for recovery. Not a mandate.  Not a requirement.  There are people who will try to add their own philosophy to it, but if you stick to the true principles of what the 12-steps are about, there are just some good advice for looking within yourself, seeing how your behavior has harmed others and you, taking accountability for those behaviors, and striving to be a better human being. 

The Big Book doesn't state you have to go to meetings.  A meeting can be defined as two people in recovery--as the founders of AA defined it.

The 12-steps aren't for everyone, and they aren't the only way to get clean and sober. They are just one way.... I liked it because it was free, accessible, and it made sense.  Choose the path that works for you.

edited to fix a typo--typed the same thing twice!


< Message edited by hausboy -- 2/1/2011 6:09:05 PM >

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 7:14:43 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Just put the fork down..

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 7:30:36 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just put the fork down..



There are going to be people reading this thread who will scoff the idea of "food addiction".

There have been scientific studies which show that at least in some people, brain chemistry changes significantly when exposed to certain foods for prolonged periods.

Whether or not you believe in addiction, there are some people who have issues with moderation.
The difference between food and alcohol is that one can survive perfectly well without drinking alcohol.

One can not survive without eating.

So if someone wants support while they find their path to moderation and healthy eating habits, I think they should use whatever tools will work for them.



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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 7:43:27 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
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Status: offline 		I suggest you try a few meetings and decide from there.

I have several family members in AA and none of them feel they are religious, and all of them practice different faiths on their own.

However, if the idea of even a "higher power" bugs you, I suggest Weight Watchers.  I've lost 73 pounds on it, and really educated myself on how various foods affect me.

And to those who do not think people can have eating addictions or eating disorders, I'm truly happy for you that you've never experienced it.  In fact, I envy you. 


_____________________________

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 7:57:42 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just put the fork down..



There are going to be people reading this thread who will scoff the idea of "food addiction".

There have been scientific studies which show that at least in some people, brain chemistry changes significantly when exposed to certain foods for prolonged periods.

Whether or not you believe in addiction, there are some people who have issues with moderation.
The difference between food and alcohol is that one can survive perfectly well without drinking alcohol.

One can not survive without eating.

So if someone wants support while they find their path to moderation and healthy eating habits, I think they should use whatever tools will work for them.




alcoholism runs in my family--my mother feared it, so she never touched a drink.  Imagine her shock--when in her 40's--she realized that she was compulsively addicted to sugar.  It was horrible--she would hide it, sneak down in the middle night and eat sugar....cookies...candy...frosting off cake...anything. Once she started, she couldn't stop. The more stress she had? the more she binged.  No one suspected a thing--she was always skinny and worked out regularly, and ate healthy.

While she didn't "feed" her addiction alcohol--which is basically a sugar to the body--her addiction found another way of manifesting itself and the body sought what it craved.

She was able to overcome the addiction on her own with the help of a holistic physician, but her compulsion is no different from mine.  My ex-wife is a compulsive eater--she would eat to squelch emotions the way I drank. It's real. very real and very difficult.

Dr. Oz just did a show on compulsive eating and food addiction.

Servantforuse:  just put the keyboard down. that was downright ignorant and not funny.

< Message edited by hausboy -- 2/1/2011 7:58:57 PM >

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 8:31:13 PM   
purepleasure


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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 8:37:49 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
However, if the idea of even a "higher power" bugs you, I suggest Weight Watchers.  I've lost 73 pounds on it, and really educated myself on how various foods affect me.

I couldn't let this pass without saying how proud I am of you.  Awesome job, NV!


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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 9:33:14 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

The funny (and by funny I mean sad) thing is that I've seen people freaking out that if they don't go to their scheduled meeting, they'll relapse...and the only trigger for that relapse would be missing a meeting. I have seen people replace drug addiction with meeting addiction in ways that were destructive to their family and homelife. To me, seriously following the AA program (as opposed to just going to meetings) encourages co-dependency.


I find this funny. Arent they already co-dependent on something?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 9:36:24 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		She knows and I know I could use the support while getting my food"sea legs under me" so to speak.

And I would love to have someone to get together and have healthy meals with, and socialize and then we could go for walks and stuff, instead of prepairing it alone, and struggling alone to find the best path for me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I am an atheist, I don't believe in god, don't believe in higher powers, don't want god mentioned to me, don't want to be around people who're god believers, unless they keep it to themselves, and are ok with my complete disregard of Christianity, don't want anything to do with the subject, even in passing. It's a big barg of barf blech no thanks to me. I suppose if it was kept to an extreamly low roar I could tolerate religious overtones, maybe lol.

But I really was kind of interested in checking them out, the diabtes advice nurse recomended them for a good support network, even if you are not really quite an OE


Not everyone who believes in God is Christian, Tfb.

They obviously do mention God.
I have never been to a group that was preachy and that includes when I was living in the bible belt.

They have a saying: Take what you like and leave the rest. I am thinking that if you wanted to you could do that.

You don't see your eating as an issue.
The nurse thinks it might be and that you could use some support while you sort stuff out.




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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 9:36:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Just put the fork down..


Here is the difference. You can put a bottle down and survive without ever taking another drink. You can drive past the casino daily without affecting your physical health. You can stop shoplifting and all the other types of addictions.

Tell me, oh great guru... how does one live without food?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Are the over eater anon groups overly religious? - 2/1/2011 9:40:01 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
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Status: offline 		Chick fil a, are apparently owned by some mormon people, and they apprently put out a news artical saying they don't like and are against gay couples, it caused a big stink,  and now people that did like Chick-fil a, or had no problem with them are offended that the company went out of its way to tell every one how they feel about gay couples.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Maybe if churches sponsor them, or Chik Fil-A donates meals to them, we should boycott them.

Churches actually don't 'sponsor' twelve step groups.  Many twelve step groups do have their meetings in churches, community centers, and the like because that is where meeting space is available.  They pay rent.  This is in conjunction with the seventh tradition:  Every group should be fully self supporting, declining outside contributions.

Where in the hell you got the Chik Fil-A thing, I don't know.



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