RE: Safewords are NOT for novices!

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RE: Safewords are NOT for novices! - 5/4/2006 6:02:19 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
I hear what you're saying, and continue to disagree for this reason--many of the people I've encountered, at least when they start, hear "owch" and "fuck" as "you'ev HURT me, we have to stop now." While communication is great, sometimes honestly saying what one's feeling ("jesus christ that hurt, you hit my -thigh-") can cause someone who's unused to it being ok to hurt someone to think that s/he should be stopping.

And you think this is a bad thing for novices??? I think it is a wonderful thing!!! I think it is great that a novice has to figure out the difference between a "bad" "OH FUCK!" and a good "OH FUCK!", and can't rely on a safeword (which are so inconsistently used by experienced subs, much less novices) to tell them that.

I am with Taggart on this one..... I think it's great that a Top should learn thru active communication the difference between bad "oh fuck" and the good oh fuck. It not only a novice Top that should learn this... It is every Top playing with a new bottom, particularly if the bottom is new. Yes the arguement is we can talk about those things later after the play... well guess what... most times the bottom doesn't even remember the incident after play. When a couple becomes more comfortable with each other the communication will become less in the play you can be sure.

finally... if it stops them from being ok to hurt someone and causes them to stop playing...GOOD... because a safeword is actually a tool that would cause these very people to become reliant on the bottom to say the safe word rather than learning to observe and understand what is a good hurt and what is a bad one. It is this people that can find themself in a heap of trouble.

I personally think Taggart raised a real problem that occurs in the use of safe words... particularly with novices.... OVER RELIANCE! As Targgart and others who have played alot and not just with one person or even two... we learned that Safe Words... Triggers or whatever you want to call them is not something to be soley relied on. Judgement must prevail! A Top MUST rely on his/her judgement at the end of the day.....

consider this... would you depend on a drunk to drive you home after a night partying... while you have not done any drinking. Well... depending on a bottom to call out their safe word is not much different. They might call it out... but they might not... A Top worth his salt... will protect against the possibility that the submissive doesn't use the safe word and will judge to stop the play themselves.

quote:

quote:

I don't think I'm articulating very well. I do NOT think that hving a safeword should mean people stop actually responding and communicating with the top. You've said that safewords are a good idea in resistance play, where the bottom will be saying "no" and "stop" a lot. I think using a safeword with new players/newcomers is along the same lines. They are unused to "that HURTS" meaning "but please don't stop" so having a word that -actually- means "please don't stop" makes the bottom better able to say "that hurts" without the top feeling as though s/he should.

I think that should stop when they are unsure of what a bottom's reaction is. I think that safewords can be used by those with a bit more experience, so they don't have to stop, but I like the idea of novices going slow.

Taggard

I echo Taggart's point here... that when the TOP is unsure of what is with a bottom's reaction... THEY STOP!!! and figure it out. I would also add... if you not sure that your actions will NOT cause harm... Then I have to ask.. why are you doing them. There is a big difference to me as far as causing "HARM" as compared to "Hurt" I never want to "HARM" my girls... but oooooooooohhhhhhhh do I love to "hurt" them. A "TOP" worth his salt will learn the difference. I will however not share the thought that only ones with experience should use safewords.... I just believe anyone should understand when they are effective and when they are not... know the advantages and limitations.

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RE: Safewords are NOT for novices! - 5/4/2006 10:15:51 PM

aleshaDreams

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Very interesting perspective from all responses. Hell I am not even a novice and I am uncertain if I agree with some of the responses but don't slam me just yet by stating I need to get experience; allow me to explain.

Being new in this area I see safe words as a mechanism of protection. The elements of 'play' are not known until that first action is taken by said Dom/Domme. However, given the 'ideal' a good deal of communication has occured between the D and the S to develop the level of trust needed to advance into play, the vanilla world equivalent 'courtship'. I personally don't believe that safewords should be restricted by the type of play. If you are going too hard and your own adrenaline is on the rise in the initial / novice stages so to speak it is surely possible to miss/misread a signal. The more advanced a relationship the more prone I would be to believe the attention to signals would be less in the form of safe words (hummm but more extreme/edge play perhaps not), but in the earlier stages while in the learning stages and building trust, I believe if nothing else this is your tool for allowing the sub/slave/bottom to embody that sense with you.

Turning your argument around, how about you find a way to turn this 'safeword' into something mutually beneficial, and perhaps set parameters of when it will be employed which the party's have determined aka 'limits'. For the most part I believe that submissives/slaves/bottoms take the role to please the dominant. Hence, is it illogical that they would blow out their safeword at anytime just for the sake of doing such. It seems out of sync to me; if the logic is not true, back to the drawing board to rethink the intended purpose of the sub/slave/bottom in the lifestyle.

',, editted to add a word..

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 5/4/2006 10:21:37 PM >

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RE: Safewords are NOT for novices! - 5/4/2006 11:10:00 PM

Kidless

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Taggart pretty much got it right-don't assume a safeword is going to save you.

It's stupid to take things for granted,use anything you can that WORKS,cuz nothing is sacred or foolproof.

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RE: Safewords are NOT for novices! - 5/4/2006 11:31:49 PM

perverseangelic

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I agree with y'all, but that wasn't what i was trying to assert.

I wasn't saying that this should be a way for tops NOT to learn bottoms reactions. Rather, some tops have trouble accepting that they -aren't- hurting their bottom. That is, that -every- "ow" doesn't mean "ow" Stopping when someone reacts in a way you don't understand or can't read is a good thing. Stopping every two minutes because you feel guilty isn't.

A safeword can help to remove some of that guilt.

I'm definatly ok with disagreeing on this one. Truthfully, I'd prefer people choose your way of thinking and are careful about safewords rather than listen to me and rely on them too much.

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RE: Safewords are NOT for novices! - 5/4/2006 11:56:12 PM

Kidless

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Wellll I have had times where I was all worried I wuz hurtin the poor lil thing too. But I got over it, when she like, tore into me for spoiling the fun by being such a PANSY ass!!!!

"Ow means hit me HARDER, you geek!!!" (In the aftercare part,duh)

"Don't you know ANYTHING?" And thus, was the bottomer from the top trained to be a BRAVE top, and wallop with all due respect.

But that was just her-the next one was different.