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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:37:35 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		I meant " we are different " in a judicial sense.
The OP is about how one country/legal system handles victims of rape. That is my basis of " yes,we are different "

I'm not sure if you meant that *I* have no compassion for her, but just so you know: yes, I do. The very very sad fact is that this is not uncommon in countries who follow Sharia Law. I know of story from quite a few years back where the father of a Saudi girl, who had allegedly engaged in pre marital sex, according to a bunch of young boys, prevented her from being brought to trial. He told the police she ran away, when infact he locked her in a dark room and let her starve to death, as she had brought such shame on the family. The mother and sisters begged him to feed her and let her live, he and his sons did not. Her sister is a friend of mine who came to this country and now works in the same anti-slavery group I work with.

So, yes, I have compassion and I do my little part to try and change or bring awareness to these atrocities.

Again Holly... not sure if that wa meant towards me, so I just wanted to clarify if it was.

mbmbn



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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:39:01 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW

What a horrible horrible travesty. Anyone that thinks any different, well may you get whats coming to you.

I am sure the poor relative that was forced to get a hard on and have sex with the 14 years old temptress is all broken to pieces. (said with as much sarcasm as I could muster in written word)


Im hoping your post was a reply to the original and not directed towards me.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:44:35 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I think many people didn't read to the end of the article, the people responsible for this "sentence" are being arrested as The high court ruled eight months ago that Shariah punishment was illegal.  They want to know why this girl wasn't protected.  So this was a "religious" doing not a justice system concept as the high court made this punishment illegal.

The thing that should be spoken about is perhaps how a religious concept could be so back-asswards.

angel



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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:50:00 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



~sighs

At the risk of offending more than a few... and I have spoken out about this girl on the other thread... I can see T's point.

Recently a video surfaced of a young boy who was beaten on his way home from school by a large number of bullies. Thankfully, no permanent injuries... some of the kids were 17, the abused was 12 0r 14.

In the video, there was a young woman who walked by... yet no one stopped to help this boy. According to one account, a woman passing by in a car finally did.

Are we really any better if this is how we treat our own children in this country?

~ETA

http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff4/nadin-khoury-jumped-beaten-hung-fence/


Yes, Tazzy, we are that different. The example you give is comparing apples to oranges.

That girl was raped and SHE was found guilty and killed. When has any victim of rape ever been put on trial as the defendent in this country ? Let alone be sent to jail or given the death penalty for being raped ? When that happens in this country, the rapist is punished. In this country, and most others, the girl is the victim, not the criminal.

The boy in your video is going to go to court and testify against his abusers. If and when they put the victim < 13 y/o boy > in jail for this crime and let the 6 abusers walk free, then you can say we are no different.

Sadly, children are abused, bullied raped and all kinds of other horrible stuff in this contry and others. The difference is... it's citizens commiting the crimes, not the courts. Yes, sometimes the system fails and the perpetrator walks, but never is the victim sent to jail or given a death sentence.

The OP is about the justice system, not about abuse of children/humans. That, sadly, is a universal problem.

mbmbn



it's citizens commiting the crimes, not the courts.

You mean like the Judges in PA running the juvenile courts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29142654/

In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

This was a court who did this, just like it was a court there who did that to that little girl. As i said, i have spoken about the matter on another thread, but I think it should be repeated here,,, but apparently the thread on the Political Board was deleted.

In any event, it seems this little girl was found guilty of being female in a society that treats females as second class citizens.

She was raped by the relative, she was beaten by his family, then by the courts, then by the executioner... nothing about this is forgiveable.

Now, having made myself quite clear on my stance with this issue, that doesnt mean I cant see alot of correlations with our own system. Except here, greed and money are the motivators.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:57:12 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

I'm not sure if you meant that *I* have no compassion for her, but just so you know: yes, I do.
it was not directed to you at all!!!!

Apologies for not making that more clear. I was talking about a statement further up in the thread (and i am certainly not picking on that particular poster, as i know it is an attitude shared by many.)

I know you were addressing the "Are we really that different?" question in a judicial sense, MBMBN, and that was at it should be, as you were following the theme of the thread.

I cant stop looking at it from the more emotional view, i suppose. *I* am not a part of the judicial system, bit I am still a part of *we*. The justice in Bangladesh is unbelievable to me, in part because that innocent little girl was probably just a normal kid from a normal family, just like us.



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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 8:59:51 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Fuck that, I fucking decided not to have kids because I didn't want the responsibility. If they can't do the same the law of nature says they get to watch their kids die. Who the fuck am I to interfere with MOTHER nature ?
Mother Nature? Come on Term...this is not an article about a child dying in a hurricane or an earthquake.
This is an article about a child who died at the hands of others. Blaming Mother Nature for what was done to this baby is excusing the behavior of those that are responsible for her death.



~sighs

At the risk of offending more than a few... and I have spoken out about this girl on the other thread... I can see T's point.

Recently a video surfaced of a young boy who was beaten on his way home from school by a large number of bullies. Thankfully, no permanent injuries... some of the kids were 17, the abused was 12 0r 14.

In the video, there was a young woman who walked by... yet no one stopped to help this boy. According to one account, a woman passing by in a car finally did.

Are we really any better if this is how we treat our own children in this country?~ETA
http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff4/nadin-khoury-jumped-beaten-hung-fence/


Here was somewhat a similar story where boys tied a girl to a fence at school and hit her with a skipping rope. The dinner lady informed her parents about what had happened, following which she was suspended as she dared to be honest to that girl parents about what happened and not tried to cover it up underneath a carpet as the school tried to do. As that - needless to say - shocked that dinnerlady she then went to the press about being suspended for being honest about what happened at that school to that girl towards her parents which lead to dismissal...and now, 19 months later she'd won her employment tribunal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344618/Sacked-dinner-lady-Carol-Hill-told-parents-school-bullying-wins-unfair-dismissal.html

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:00:01 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

I think many people didn't read to the end of the article, the people responsible for this "sentence" are being arrested
I do not have the stomach to read it.

However, i cant help but wonder about any arrests if the child had survived


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:01:46 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sad, isnt it. Those most vulnerable are the one's we least protect.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:04:35 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I think many people didn't read to the end of the article, the people responsible for this "sentence" are being arrested
I do not have the stomach to read it.

However, i cant help but wonder about any arrests if the child had survived



I read it to the end but didn't make any impact on my response as it doesn't help that girl anymore that they try now to correct the situation considering she died. My focus remained firstly to what happened to the girl. I agree with Holly that we don't know how they would have responded to it if the girl would have survived.

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 2/6/2011 9:06:15 AM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:07:51 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		What ifs Holly, the fact is, they are looking into it and that is a STEP in the right direction as was outlawing the punishment 8 months ago.  They want to know why the girl wasn't protected.  So will anything happen -- maybe not, but in the end, they are trying to get communication going and that is the first step.  Even in our own society, rape victims ARE put on trial even if its a indirect trial many times and it was worse years ago.  So yes a 14 year old girl (one of many over history even recent history) died a sensless death, but if her death now can MEAN movement in a positive direction then, she hasn't died for nothing.  Yes its horrible, yes it happens, but it won't stop overnight, but hopefully with more communication etc, it will eventually stop.  We can't fight this battle for them, just like they couldn't fight ours.  Our country has come very far in terms of rape and victims of incest etc.   We can't forget our own history just because we are now a concept of what we deem civilized.

Even our own country is still very for lack of better word -- skeptical in cases of different types of rapes.  Unfortunately, this country is still were we were what 200+ years ago?

It's horrible death for a young girl who had no control in a terrible situation.  But if it leads to futhering of a more humane view of rape victims by men in that country, it's not in vane.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/6/2011 9:11:57 AM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:14:26 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sad, isnt it. Those most vulnerable are the one's we least protect.
Beyond sad, Taz.

The phrase "It takes a village" comes to mind. None of us can raise a child on our own. It takes a village that consists of medical personal, a school system, parental support, etc to care for and to protect our kids. It takes a fair and reasonable judicial system to protect them.

This sickens me...
quote:

The high court ruled eight months ago that Shariah punishment was illegal.


Eight months??? The high court ruled EIGHT MONTHS AGO that this treatment of a child was illegal?


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:19:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Holly, sweety, why do you think the implication of Shariah Law being enforced in the US was such a political hot bed last election?

Its only been within the last year.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:21:07 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		YEs Holly 8 whole months ago, imagine that it could be they NEVER ruled it to be illegal. And they would not even be looking into this death.  So before you speak in sarcasm, you really may want to stop and thing that's a hell of a ruling to START moving forward.  This girl wasn't protected, they are demanding BECAUSE it was ruled illegal why she wasn't.

Its a STEP.

angel

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:25:59 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		Thanx for clearing that up.

If I were to put my real thoghts on this into words on this MB, I am sure I would get a ban. This particular topic hits a very emotional chord with me. I've met far too many woman/young girls who have suffered at the hands of Sharia Law and it repulses me. Thankfully most were " only" given 100 lashes for their crime of being a victim of rape.

mbmbn

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:26:07 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

What ifs Holly, the fact is, they are looking into it and that is a STEP in the right direction as was outlawing the punishment 8 months ago.  They want to know why the girl wasn't protected.  So will anything happen -- maybe not, but in the end, they are trying to get communication going and that is the first step.
I absolutely disagree, Angel.

If the judicial system is looking into this and NOTHING happens, it is not a step in the right direction of enforcing a recently repealed law.
In fact, it is many many steps in the reverse.The communication they convey will clearly speak of the repeal being meaningless, making that level of brutality even more acceptable.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 2/6/2011 9:30:27 AM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:29:21 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Holly, do you remotely remember how our country use to be with not only rape victims but incest victims?  Do you?  It starts with people inquiring, of getting information etc.  It doesn't change in one day because of one in this case death or rape or incent rape.

You can disagree all you like but you obviously don't remember our own country's struggle to not turn the victim into the instigator the person responsible.

WE can't fight this battle for this country. THEY have to do it and within the boundry's of their religious concepts etc.   We don't need to agree but like many are saying -- maybe we should be focusing on OUR OWN country where kids are still victims of rape and incest, where our own justice system is lenient etc.


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/6/2011 9:31:28 AM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:44:14 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Holly, do you remotely remember how our country use to be with not only rape victims but incest victims?  Do you?  It starts with people inquiring, of getting information etc.  It doesn't change in one day because of one in this case death or rape or incent rape.

You can disagree all you like but you obviously don't remember our own country's struggle to not turn the victim into the instigator the person responsible.

WE can't fight this battle for this country. THEY have to do it and within the boundry's of their religious concepts etc.   We don't need to agree but like many are saying -- maybe we should be focusing on OUR OWN country where kids are still victims of rape and incest, where our own justice system is lenient etc.


angel
Your argument will only work if rape and incest in this country were ever legal to begin with. They were not, at least that i can recall.

And of course i know the victims are often blamed, Angel...even with something as ridiculous as the attire a rape victim was wearing. It is a tactic used by defense attorneys all the time.

My point in all of this...if Bangladesh wants to practice Sharia Law, that is their business. Personally i think it is a travesty, but i doubt my opinion means a whole lot over there.

However (come on Angel...you knew a "However" was coming) it is the responsibility of the government (the Village, if you will) to care for and to protect those that cannot care for and protect themselves. Who protected that little girl?


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:48:44 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		No one did and THAT'S why they are being arrested.  Its not a whole solution but its a start.  She is one little girl who died a horrible death, but maybe her death may be the START of a beginning.  And yes, maybe not.  But it has people thinking.

angel

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:51:17 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"say how this little girl deserved to die because she was unfortunate enough to be born into a third world country"

Absolutely NOT. But what would you have me do ? We simply have to accept the fact that we can't save everyone. Like I said, it's not that I don't care, it's that I can't.

Regimes that pull this shit are not in power by lottery. Their culture is foreign to us, although less than we would like to think. Life is brutal, and this is one person, in a sea of life. We can't save everyone.

Not so many decades ago in this country rape victims were told to shut up, not say anything. Shamed and shunned as "men" assert that "she was asking for it".

Is it right ? Hell no. But we just can't really do anything about it. In today's society though, someone has to make a buck. There are thousands of stories, true ones, every day that depict injustice and inhumanity to this degree or even worse. Unfortunately someone always needs money, the guy on TV that is. We can help if you send in money. That's the way I see such articles now.

Damn shame I know. But fifty years of this shit has hardened me. And really, it's not that I don't care, it's that I can't. If I let myself care, then that causes stress because there is not a damn thing I can do.

The ability to not care, for whatever reason, is essential to mental health.

Sorry to shatter people's illusions of goodhood in me, but the fact is this shit happens all the time. Why did it make the news this time ? Everything they put on the media is designed to influence you. And if you are honest, you'll admit that had you the awesome power of the media, you would use it to promote your own views, and AGENDA. I'll admit I would, will you ? Will anyone ?

T^T


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:52:20 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

WE can't fight this battle for this country. THEY have to do it and within the boundry's of their religious concepts etc.  



I agree that we can't fight another countries battles, but we certainly can help educate the citizens. It's far more complex than abolishing Sharia Law. There are such vast cultural and perceptual differences. And a huge part of this is a result of being poor and uneducated.

From Hena's Dad:

Hena's father didn't know. "I'm not educated," Darbesh said. "I don't know what the court laws are. But I know that if I don't listen to the elders, we would be outcast. None of my daughters could marry; no one would even look at us. If I had known that it would be them who would be punished, not me, then I would have tried to stop it."

http://www.tinygreenbubble.com/eco/world-news-reports/item/1505-14-year-old-girl-whipped-to-death

The account of the story in this article is much more detailed.
You will note that the man who raped Hena had raped before. HIS puishment for the rape ? Marry the girl.

mbmbn



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When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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