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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:08:41 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Everything they put on the media is designed to influence you. And if you are honest, you'll admit that had you the awesome power of the media, you would use it to promote your own views, and AGENDA. I'll admit I would, will you ? Will anyone ?


You're damn right i would...and i say that knowing media reporting should be unbiased.
Fuck that. If i were reporting a story about the brutal murder of a child and thought my own opinion could make a difference, you bet your butt i would not keep my mouth shut.
And actually...i find this situation so outrageous that my bias would be apparent even if i knew it would make no difference at all. I doubt i would be able to hide my emotions.


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:09:20 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		The problem is they won't LISTEN to us trying to "educate them?"  Who are we, just because we believe ourselves to be more civilized?  They think we are heathens because we are a country that has no religious say as a whole. these people hold onto their religion like we hold onto our consitution -- humane or not.

i really don't get your post, i said this country has to deal with it and change its own laws and understandings that contradict their religious beliefs and understandings and yes customs.  But i do believe that our education should be in OUR OWN country as the attrocities here are just as bad because of who we are as a country.

Education starts at home, and maybe its time we once again lead by example, instead of trying to tell the world do as we say not as we do.  We have 100,000 of children who are victims of incest and rape and prostitution etc.  While i do feel for this little girl and believe what has happened to be barbaric, our own country needs to look out for its own children before telling other counrties how to deal with theirs. 

I am not advocating what happened, just putting it in perspective because there are MANY children in our own country who need protecting.  Who are we to tell the rest of the world how to deal with their children?

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:12:29 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
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quote:

Education starts at home, and maybe its time we once again lead by example, instead of trying to tell the world do as we say not as we do. We have 100,000 of children who are victims of incest and rape and prostitution etc. While i do feel for this little girl and believe what has happened to be barbaric, our own country needs to look out for its own children before telling other counrties how to deal with theirs.

I am not advocating what happened, just putting it in perspective because there are MANY children in our own country who need protecting. Who are we to tell the rest of the world how to deal with their children?


***just shakes my head and walks away***


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:14:41 AM   
Termyn8or


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After the exchange with Pam, I think it a good time to put this forth.

I think this is so bad it's ridiculous. Punish the victim in the first place ? It happens more than we like to think. If you bring the assholes who did it to me I will gladly oil up the shotgun for more efficient operation, and then operate it. They are guilty of murder. I would gladly be the "angel of death" and send thm to Allah, or Budhead or whoever they go to. I would load up on ammo and start by shooting off their feet, then their knees, and then their thighs, arms, and so forth. You get the idea. But that is not going to happen.

I'm sorry that I don't feel this the way others do. Really. For me I guess maybe compassion is not defined properly.

Really, this may be a bit flippant but .... You a 14 year old getting raped and facing this kind of shit ? Come on over. You can stay a while and nobody will touch you here (physically). I am not rich anymore and the place is not fancy, but if you're truly in need, come on. You don't need any money, but you could help out with the chores. We eat well, have plenty of books and kickass stereo and musical equipment to play with. You are welcome if truly in need.

But this is after the fact. You know we had a concert for that "country". If we hadn't have done that, it's doubtful this girl would ever have been born. Talk about the starving in Africa ? Well if we wouldn't have helped the starving in Africa twenty years ago, these particular starving in Africa would not be there, and therefore not starving in Africa. The greater good would have been served if we had just let it be back then.

Get the idea ? We perpetuate the problem.

It's not that I don't feel, it's just that I can't join in for 100 choruses of Kumbaya, or I'd like to teach the world to sing, or buy them a Coke. The flower power has worn off.

T^T

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:18:34 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		lol Holly, shake your head but seriously other than your outrage here on this 1 news article someone posted on collarme, what are YOU planning to do about this girl?  You are going to do exactly what you are -- shake your head, be indignant and walk away from the news article.

So before you start feeling superior just remember that.  Because we BOTH know you aren't planning on doing anything more than feeling upset at this news article and in a day when this thread dies, you will  do it all over again when someone else posts a very tragic story.

Your hands are tied just as much as anyone elses, you can self-righteously shake your head at my words, but at least i am honest -- what are you?   Seriously what was your plan to make this change in that country?  I mean if you are shaking your head at MY plan, what is yours for this one girl and this one village?

I would rather start where i KNOW i can make a difference --- in my own country with the children who don't make the news -- maybe one day my helping in such a small way will have a greater effect so we don't hear these types of stories from across the world.

So yeah Holly -- self-righteously shake your head -- but seriously -- what IS your plan other than whinging about it on collarme to help change these laws and such in Bangladesh.

angel

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:36:48 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Don't get too personal here Angel. People will feel what they feel.

Damn hard expressing those unpopular viewpoints ain't it ? But reality, such as it is, is upon us.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:40:22 AM   
sirsholly


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 10:41:22 AM   
maybemaybenot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

The problem is they won't LISTEN to us trying to "educate them?"  Who are we, just because we believe ourselves to be more civilized?  They think we are heathens because we are a country that has no religious say as a whole. these people hold onto their religion like we hold onto our consitution -- humane or not.

i really don't get your post, i said this country has to deal with it and change its own laws and understandings that contradict their religious beliefs and understandings and yes customs.  But i do believe that our education should be in OUR OWN country as the attrocities here are just as bad because of who we are as a country.

Education starts at home, and maybe its time we once again lead by example, instead of trying to tell the world do as we say not as we do.  We have 100,000 of children who are victims of incest and rape and prostitution etc.  While i do feel for this little girl and believe what has happened to be barbaric, our own country needs to look out for its own children before telling other counrties how to deal with theirs. 

I am not advocating what happened, just putting it in perspective because there are MANY children in our own country who need protecting.  Who are we to tell the rest of the world how to deal with their children?

angel


I guess it depends on your definition of " us ". If you mean the American government, then you are probably correct.

Let me clarify for you : We can educate them. " We" as in average everyday people, human rights organizations, Amnesty International, AASG, woman in their own country who are risking their lives to educate, bring change.

The woman I mentioned a few posts ago... she educates in her country. She risks her life to do so, but she is doing it and makes little inlets each time she goes home.

And if you think this young girl is one of few, you are wrong. Will her story bring about change ? Maybe, but probably not... many have gone annonomously before her.

Of course we have our own problems here in our country... difference being... you can help the children in this country without fear of being assasinated, prosecuted or sent to jail. I'm not arguing with you that we have our own problems....but I will politely disagree that the majority of abuse of our children is rooted in religion or customs.

mbmbn



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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 11:42:47 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"say how this little girl deserved to die because she was unfortunate enough to be born into a third world country"

Absolutely NOT. But what would you have me do ? We simply have to accept the fact that we can't save everyone. Like I said, it's not that I don't care, it's that I can't.

Damn shame I know. But fifty years of this shit has hardened me. And really, it's not that I don't care, it's that I can't. If I let myself care, then that causes stress because there is not a damn thing I can do.

The ability to not care, for whatever reason, is essential to mental health...


Well, at least that's better than blaming it on her parents and overbreeding.

i understand that i'm not doing anything for her, either. i mean, my compassion and moral outrage don't help her, right? Or maybe they do. It's possible that enough bad press here will put pressure on them to change their ways. Granted, it's unlikely, but it's possible. Like the whole sweatshop thing. Or the coffee industry. The upside to being this big, obnoxious country is that we have some political clout. It would be nice if the outrage in the media had some effect. Not sure if will, but it's possible.

i admit that i have no intention of doing anything besides posting in the thread about it. Termy's right, you can't save everyone. However, i didn't see the thread as a call to political action, but rather as an expression of compassion for the suffering of another person, which is only human. It's entirely possible to FEEL for people that you can't easily help.

i feel for the victims of rape and violence in this country too, even though i'm not doing anything to help THEM either. i'm not a political activist. i'm not willing to spend my life advocating for every victim of injustice in the world. Does that make me a hypocrite for expressing an opinion about it?

i think we all agree that what happened is a terrible thing. And that's all the thread was really saying.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 2/6/2011 1:01:31 PM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 11:46:18 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		maybemaybenot, oh i get what you are saying.  But you and i are seeing education extending in different ways.  To me, it makes no sense to me how we either as a country or groups within our country are going to tell other countries how to protect their children when we don't even do so very well in our own country.  Yeah we have laws but do we have protection?  No.  Just as these people didn't speak up when this district handed down an unlawful punishment, our own people don't speak up when they see something illegal happening with children because they don't wnat to get involved.

You speak of people risking their lives to make change -- what about those kids every day who rish their lives just by going home? 

Don't get me wrong, i do feel for the plight of the countries who deal with what i consider assinine laws and laws that demoralize women etc.  This story about this little girl makes me physically ill because i know she is just one of many.  But it also makes me think about the children who live in fear and put their lives at risk just by going home every day from school.  Indignation regarding this girl is correct and good. 

And i agree with you -- "we" can educate them, we just don't see eye to eye as to what form that education should come in.  To me, its hard to educate people when we don't understand most of what their lives are -- as many people in our country have no clue what it is to live in a country where RELIGION is a huge influence on laws and religious leaders create their own laws - even though our roots were in such a concept.  Most people in this country don't want to know it as we are very comfortable with the constitution.   So who are we to go in and tell these people and "educate" them based on what we DO know, which is completely foreign to them.  We can go in and presume we know the right way, but as most of us only work on indigation and not our own education of where these people in bangladesh come from, to me that education is the wrong way.

But i do believe we can show how it works and show that these laws in our own country protect the children and people speak up for OUR children and again, show rather than tell -- they will come to a point they start interpreting same into their own customs and lives based on what THEY know of their laws and culture and religious understandings.

To me, people who are working to make changes in these countries don't need sensational headlines to be motivated. 
As i said, we have different ideas of what forms educating comes.

angel

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 1:03:28 PM   
Aylee


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And this ladies and gentlemen is why I feel sick in my stomach every time someone starts going on about understanding, tolerance, and acceptance of other cultures.

Nothing in this story is new. Many of us have been outraged for a long time over these types of honor crimes and other atrocities happening in these countries. Yet we have continued to hear that we need to accept and understand that it is just the way these other cultures work.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 1:46:49 PM   
rosanegra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And if you are honest, you'll admit that had you the awesome power of the media, you would use it to promote your own views, and AGENDA. I'll admit I would, will you ? Will anyone ?

T^T




Yes, if I had the power I'd use it to promote my own agenda. My own agenda would be to promote change in a very cruel, unfair world. It would be to try to prevent future incidents like this...

I can't help but think this is why we are hearing about it. To become aware... to influence change.

You see, if you don't even stop to give a damn, you have no hope of ever changing anything. No, you may not be able to directly influence the powers that be so that this *never* happens again. But if enough people know about these things, and are outraged by them, it is a start in the right direction.

If you just harden your heart, and don't give a damn what happens to other people, and just take care of yourself, you're basically saying you're okay with it continuing to happen.

Complacency is what allows atrocities like this, and many others, to continue. Not giving a damn only leads to more of the same shit.

Oh.. and there are programs out there that are geared toward systematically bettering poor, starving societies. Not just giving them fish, but teaching them to fish. We need more of that in our own country, too..

The more prosperous we all are, the better. Prosperity is what leads to all of the creature comforts we are now accustomed to, and future development is dependent upon a prosperous world. Giving aid to your neighbor benefits you in the long run.

Yes there are some people who just plain don't deserve help. They've put themselves in horrible situations, and it is their fault they can't get out.

Many people, however, are doing whatever they can... and just need a hand up out of the rut that they are in.

Economic change is not the issue here though.. it is social and political change. It is your right to not give a damn.. and it is my right to think you're horrible because of it.


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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 2:28:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		But, you call those people savages and some *politically correct mental retard* calls you ignorant. What the hell does that say about them?
The U.S. doesn't need to be having business dealings with or any diplomatic relations with countries like that. Well, any third world country for that matter.
Why don't we have anyone with balls in Washington anymore?
"Oh, you know that 14 year old girl you guys beat to death? Well, that's why we're closing our embassey in 30 days."
"Also, no more foreign aid especially *food aid* as we feel it would be a better thing that you starve to death and not infect the earth with anymore of your progeny."
"After you all die we'll ask neighboring countries to go in and collect any art, artifacts, books, cultural items etc so that these may be destroyed as any evidence of your existance to future generations would be repugnant."
But they wouldn't do that of course! Instead it would be that same ol same ol, the foreign aid checks (our money) keep flowing (in hopes that there'll be the ever invisable "reforms" wink, wink, nod, nod.
Personally I don't want a "Washington" that's "nice" to other countries, "ever the sucker!"

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 2:54:28 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"Oh, you know that 14 year old girl you guys beat to death? Well, that's why we're closing our embassy in 30 days."

Screw closing the embassy. I want a scorched Earth policy.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 3:09:16 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		ETA: FAST REPLY (1st Question not directed at one person)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

................And of course i know the victims are often blamed, Angel...even with something as ridiculous as the attire a rape victim was wearing. It is a tactic used by defense attorneys all the time......................



and victims are blamed for where they walk, see the "scared tranny" thread.

How did pointing out an atrocity perpetrated on a child turn into talking about foriegn aid?

mbmbn: my hat is off to you. How do you stop from going mad?

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/6/2011 3:14:00 PM >

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 4:06:10 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

ETA: FAST REPLY (1st Question not directed at one person)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

................And of course i know the victims are often blamed, Angel...even with something as ridiculous as the attire a rape victim was wearing. It is a tactic used by defense attorneys all the time......................



and victims are blamed for where they walk, see the "scared tranny" thread.

that is a whole different ballgame Heln. When it is a CD/trans or any other person who varies from the "norm", it is automatically their fault.

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RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 7:01:16 PM   
Termyn8or


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I will take this in reverse chorological order.

"When it is a CD/trans or any other person who varies from the "norm", it is automatically their fault. "

Unfortunately that is the immaturity of bigotry, the one thing we strive to grow out of, and some have for the most part. Noone has done it 100% and I can prove it within a few sentences. Just ask.

"see the "scared tranny" thread. "

I was thinking of responding there, but I don't have that much to say. If noone knew she was a tranny, things would not be different. She now has to deal with being a Woman, being sought after by Men, malicious or not. In that thread, I simply have nothing constructive to add.

"Screw closing the embassy. I want a scorched Earth policy. "

In some cases that would result in less human suffering. Am I am animal or a heartless MF for saying so ?

"Personally I don't want a "Washington" that's "nice" to other countries,"

Agreed. We have enough problems of our own. If we keep this bullshit up, WE will be the third world country. Or maybe the fourth world ?

"Yes, if I had the power I'd use it to promote my own agenda. My own agenda would be to promote change in a very cruel, unfair world. It would be to try to prevent future incidents like this... "

OK, you are now the dictator of the US. Shall we sanction, blockade or bomb ? We have no other choices. We cannot change people. They have to change themselves.

"If you just harden your heart, and don't give a damn what happens to other people, and just take care of yourself, you're basically saying you're okay with it continuing to happen."

No, I am saying that it simply is none of my business. We do not rule the world, apparently contrary to popular belief. When the O2 masks drop in a plane, who gets it first ?

"Nothing in this story is new. Many of us have been outraged for a long time over these types of honor crimes and other atrocities happening in these countries. Yet we have continued to hear that we need to accept and understand that it is just the way these other cultures work. "

No, just mind our own damn business. Do I care when a lion eats a llama ? Do I care about the kitten in the grass with snakes ? I can't do that to maintain sanity becuse I am a problem solver. As harsh as it is, I have to say - FUKUM.

"This story about this little girl makes me physically ill because i know she is just one of many."

Exactly. And you let it happen. With repoire, you are human to me, until then I don't care. If you care you did make the grade BTW, but that is only me. Really, the only way to be a true activist is to stay home. I don't mean not go anywhere, but to concentrate your efforts on what is happening locally, where you have at least a slim chance of getting something done. Look at the world, it is apparent that even God can't be everywhere, and if he is, he can go fuck himself.

"Well, at least that's better than blaming it on her parents and overbreeding. "

That was just schmoozing it over. Tell you what, I knda like you, let's go to Alaska and fuck. Oops, you're pregnant. Well I don't catch enough fish or whales that year and we die. Law of nature. Every species that overpopulates either adjusts or becomes extinct. Humans have a working brain, and as racist as it may sound, and I guess it is, look at the population in the world. White Germans, Finns, and others are ecouraged to breed, to make more babies. That is because they see the world as inhospitable, and simply don't want to. But others breed without a problem. They breed and breed and breed until they don't have the fucking room to sit down. This is not a White/Black thing. I live in the US, SUPPOSEDLY the best country in the world. I will NOT have kids because it is not good enough. I wish I had moved away a long time ago, but now it is too late. So this is where my loyalty lies, for reasons of the brain, not the heart.




Here's a song for ya - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHlAh_Jhd6A

That's fucking spirit. That's what made us human in the first place. "This sucks, now how do I deal with it ? " Leave, take your chances with the elements, or make a change at your home, to make it better for you and your's. You, in fact nobody can make it better for everyone. Fukum.

Sounds terrible doesn't it ? It is. But get with the reality now before you drive yourself insane. I almost did. Imagine a natural born problem solver getting bambarded with all these facts, depicting atrocities the world over. I can't turn to religion for peace, there is no escape. To keep my sanity I do what I have to do. I concentrate on things I can change, and to hell with those I can't.

If you're talking about the Moslem girl killed by her Father in the US, for a couple ten twenty grand we could send someone over to show the asshole what's right. But in this case we are talking about the whole society over there. Kill them all ? Do it, I really don't care, I can't. But they won't, they fight wars for profit from their benefactors, not from their subjected peoples. They are illogical, not me. If I ran a war there would not be a living thing in my wake. Why kill the adults and leave a bunch of orphans for later ? Bunch of shit.

I take this attitude to retain what little sanity I have left, I value it. And that's why I am not afraid to die. I wish someone would threaten my life, because I would call their bluff. See if you can do it punk ! I can die with it better than you can live with it I guarantee.

Life sucks. But those moments worth holding on to are the difference. Once in a while you get a chance to do something good. Now how about somebody posting something that we CAN do something about ? Do it, and you can probably count me in. But I don't chase foul balls.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 7:56:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"Oh, you know that 14 year old girl you guys beat to death? Well, that's why we're closing our embassy in 30 days."

Screw closing the embassy. I want a scorched Earth policy.



Aylee, yeah, me too.
But unfortunately the people who manage to slither their way into our government all think that they're "smart!"
Look at people like Hillary Clinton, they think that "words mean something." They don't when you're dealing with savages.
They believe in "reason" so therefor wouldn't groups like al qeada also believe in reason?
They believe that if they give a foreign country enough of the taxpayer's money they'll,..."like us!"
They think that if they "talk" to a countrie's leaders and have good relations with them that somehow the millions of people who live in that country will like us even though most are not even aware that any "talks" even took place.
It's all bullshit and it doesn't work.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:11:02 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hold on here Pops, et alii..........

Why do we have embassies there ? Is there some reason I don't know about other than oil or something ? That is one fucking little shitcan of a country. What the hell do we want with it ? What do they have ? Consider why we don't have embassies in zoos.

Does it interest you to know that less than a continent away some huge neandrathal raped a one year old girl because the voodoo medicine man or whatever told him it would cure AIDS ?

If you think we have to civilize the whole world you are just as wrong as the holy warriors. WE MUST IMPOSE OUR WAY ON THE INFIDELS, THE HERETICS, THE UNKNOWING. We must do this. It is our job to make the world just like our PERFECT FUCKING SOCIETY.

Maybe we should civilize ourselves before we attampt to civilize others.

T^T

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 14 Year-Old Girl in Bangladesh after Public Flogging - 2/6/2011 9:15:03 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Does it interest you to know that less than a continent away some huge neandrathal raped a one year old girl because the voodoo medicine man or whatever told him it would cure AIDS ?


I was thinking the same thing, T. It is no different, and it has been discussed before.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 60
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