RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM

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ServiceNTucson -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/3/2006 10:40:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Oh yes, the "good old days"... If anyone every slaps a "true" label on me I will slice them open and eat their liver raw. No gay man ever fucked over a lover for a younger hotter stud. No hot young stud got away with things that someone not so hot was made to pay for. Nodoby ever put up with a leatherman simply because he had a fabulous dungeon to play in. Nobody acted like a pompous ass in the old days, just ask Jay Wiseman about why he was kicked out of Gemini or any of the early politics of the Society of Janus. No dominant running a group would ever break up a marriage, one that had kids, just to get at that hot young woman he has always wanted. Nope none of the above would ever happen in the "glorious old days" of which I belonged so you should get on your knees and suck my cock even though I am a shriveled old man who couldn't get it up back then either. aaaahhhhh, I feel much better now. And people wonder why I would banish the world "true" from the S&M lexicon! I have to agree with Crappy about the word "true." "Real" comes real close too. As for the "good old days," it reminds me of the story of the very first Marine. The first Marine reported aboard the ship he'd been assigned to. The captain, never having had a Marine before and unsure what to do with him sent him down to the hold and told him to wait there and they'd call him when they needed him. About six months later, the second Marine showed up. When he got down into the hold with the first Marine, he made a comment about how dank and cramped the hold was. The first Marine said, "Ahh, this is nothing, let me tell you about the OLD Corps." The "good old days" are kind of like the Holy Roman Empire, which was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/3/2006 10:46:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The good ole days weren't really that good. So very true. I just finished reading an old, non-fiction, secondhand paperback from the 60s about "the growing popularity of bondage". Some of the stuff described that these "pioneers" were doing would curl your hair...Can you say "completely unsafe??". I'm glad I wasn't trying it back then. Cin

Dustyn -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/3/2006 10:53:35 PM)
and all of this moral legislation will end when it impinges on someone of a higher standing than the majority of America... it's been done before, it'll be done again... all we can do is weather the storm, not rage against the wind that drives it... granted, I do agree that the government, regardless of who heads it, need to keep their collective noses out of my bedroom... scenes done in public, yeah, you should expect some backlash, but a bedroom is beyond private property and should stay that way... you notice they backed off slightly when Cheney's daughter, or whoever she was to him, came out of the closet... once it was forgotten, they went right back at it... it's just a game of patience... and I've played a LOT of chess over the years... - Dustyn quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Yeah, and litigation can lead to new, and better, laws protecting our rights, as opposed to the illegal, and unwarranted, incarceration as could happen in time past. Don't know about you, but I REALLY don't want to get thrown in the looney bin for an unspecified length of time, against my will, just because I put a couple of bruises on someone's ass, if it's all teh same to you. I mean, really, at least in court, you have the chance to defend yourself these days. Or they could find us even more outside the law than we are now. "Moral" legislation is all the rage now. As the crew in Attleboro but it "When wooden spoons are outlawed, only outlaws will have wooden spoons."

ElectraGlide -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/3/2006 11:06:38 PM)
I can say one thing about the Internet and BDSM it filled in the missing blanks for me. I dated a sub lady when I was younger without BDSM information or education. I have been vanilla ever since until recently. Now it makes sense to me. It left me confused and wondering what the hell we were doing until I got this computer 2 years ago. I have always lived by honor and prided myself on not being a stray dog in heat.

Kedikat -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 12:36:47 AM)
Geez.... Welcome to the larger world. The internet has let more people interact in the BDSM realm. It's no surprise to see that the more hidden world of it from 25 years ago actually encompasses a wide variety of people and practices. As well as a large group who fit into your definition of it. A few decades ago it was commonly known that homosexuality was a mental disorder that was best dealt with by asylums and prisons. The past is a refuge for some, a prison for most.

CzechFemale -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 3:09:02 AM)
I fully agree with what you said and I sent you an answer , but it seems it was lost, please verify if you nredcieved it . Dana

MsMacComb -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 3:13:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CzechFemale I fully agree with what you said and I sent you an answer , but it seems it was lost, please verify if you nredcieved it . Dana Within your private IM (Message's) area you should see a icon for " Sent Mail". This will tell you if the message you sent went through okay. [:)]

mistoferin -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 3:40:40 AM)
I think the answer is that the internet has brought both good and bad to the world of BDSM. That only stands to reason as it is a medium that has exposed huge numbers of people to ALL kinds of different concepts and information that they had no awareness of or access to prior to its' existence. In areas of BDSM or issues relating to sexuality you can now freely access information from the "privacy" of your own home and it doesn't require a trip to the local sex shop, the X rated movie house or any brown paper wrapped packages coming to your doorstep. That said....and maybe I should just try going back to bed and getting out on the OTHER side of it as I can normally ignore the comments.......the thing that has irked me on this thread (and many others) is the commentary from the very young about what the "good old days" were really like. Regardless of what I think they were like, or whether you agree or disagree to what is being said in regards to that time, what possible first hand knowledge could anyone who is under 30 possibly feel that they have that justifies them in making flip commentary to someone who lived at a time that they didn't to discredit their perception of it? It goes both ways....if the young expect the old to have a respect and an appreciation for their youth and the times they live in, then the youth should have the same respect for those who came before them.

twicehappy -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 4:05:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The good ole days weren't really that good. Enjoy the feeling of superiority though. Us darn kids who got no respect and no sense of responsibility will keep going until we get old enough to start talking about how great everything was "back in our day." Headline of your profile: LuckyAlbatross Female Switch, 26, Baltimore, Maryland Now i am not picking on you, nor saying this SirAndGentleman is right or wrong but; this guy is specifically speaking of 25 years ago, correct? Ok, i am no Euclid of Alexandria but i can add and subtract. Twenty six minus twenty five equals one. You were in the scene when you were only a year old? And you remember it? My point is this; at best you heard second hand accounts of "the good old days", therefore you really are not in a position to judge, you were not there. I was, right there in your good old home town of Baltimore. I remember the gay leather bars on Broadway, the Unicorn down on Boston Street. Some things were better, some were worse; we straight folk were accepted on the edges of the scene occasionally, sometimes even welcomed, though we were more of a presence on Baltimore's famous Block in places like the 2 O'clock club and the Gaity Show Bar. Develop some tolerance, one day you too will be one of us" old timers" and want somebody to respectfully listen to your version of the good old days. Each generation goes through this; we need to remember that and ask intelligent questions and hear their stories with an open mind. You would be amazed at what the previous generation has to say sometimes. Most of all you need to bear in mind that someday YOU will be the old timer. I believe in cosmic karma, eventually those young whippersnappers could be poking fun at you while you bitch about them; hopefully you will find someone to listen respectfully to your tales. Reminds me of a episode of Star Trek when the older forgotten gods had all faded away due to lack of belief in the old ways. Yes, the ever moving forward crew disposed of the last old god by refusing to hear him or believe in him. But in the end, after thinking of all that lost knowledge they ask themselves the question; "Would it really have hurt to gather a few laurel leaves and listen to his tales of days past, his Golden Age of Man?".

NINASHARP -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 4:28:43 AM)
Hello all, I am trying to follow most opinions. I have always had some really dark fantasies that involved s/m, ever since I remember. Yet I first found a way to explore by researching the internet, and learning from others on the internet who practiced in the flesh. It was and has been a great tool for information. I've met and learned about some things in real life, from those who were active in the scene, via internet comunication. That being said, I have never been to a event, club, party or group where a sub / dom would come up to me and ask me if I wanted their superior cock up my ass! Nor have I been approached with the indecencies and assumtions that people blatantly make in their comments on forums as this and in email. I find that most people in real life are more civil and would think twice about opening their trap when they disagree with someone else. Until then, NINA

kneltandtied -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 4:44:26 AM)
i remember having a conversation with my grandmother..in her nineties at the time.she said quite plainly that things were on a downhill slide from the 1914-1918 war!.When we talked about the internet she said"no good will come of it..talking to all those foreigners..well we don't know what food they eat for dinner do we? they dont know how to make a steak and kidney pudding! !" lol..bless her. it's all about perspective..trying to keep one would be a good beginning..smiles the inernet is not god..its not a sentient being deliberatly trying to take apart our morality..lifestyle..its a tool .how well we use it is our own choice. so gran sorry ..but i have found much in the way of education using this tool..and have made some great friends as well. keep safe knelt

IronBear -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 6:05:15 AM)
Disclaimer: I havent read any of the preceeding pages so I'm responding to the title of the thread.... All the internet has done is to expose more people to the BDSM Scene just as it has with the general Pagan and Wiccan scenes. What happens is that more and more yopunger folk want to learn but also want to fast track their learning.. No the Internet hasn't screwed anything up. People Screw things up. People have the choice to follow traditional learning paths or not.. With new generations of people even those who do want and have learned along more traditional paths and taken things carefully, they bring new ideas and concepts to the mix which in turn alters dynamics... The best example easily found is the development of the meaning of the English language.. In the Good Old Days of Bill Shakespear, he used the term "Gay" as being happy and gay where as now we almost automatically as refering to either homosexuality or lesbianism.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 6:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Had to laugh. Thought your original point was rather clever, actually, and the one who commented on it simply didn't get it. btw the bunny makes me crave sugar for some reason. Heh, sarcasms a dying art- thanks to the INTERNET!!!! (OK not really but figured I should keep it on topic) I don't eat the things actually, ew.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 6:46:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy Develop some tolerance, one day you too will be one of us" old timers" and want somebody to respectfully listen to your version of the good old days. It's called understanding history and human patterns. Every single generation of every single culture has complained about the "new generation" being uppity youngsters losing all sense of responsibility and "the good ole days" being forgotten memories. Trust me, you can find examples of it in ancient greek texts and beyond. This is just another incarnation of that. I don't need to have been in the kinky scene in the 70s any more than I need to have been in the serfs scene hundreds of years ago. Every generation has its group who thinks that the world peaked with them and is going all to hell afterwards. The reality is that things always simply shift, usually in highly predictable patterns. The reality is that perceptions are what's changing- not the actual state of affairs in terms of values and responsibilities. I'm more than happy to listen to people's actual accounts of history. I make a point of trying to do so at events and meeting people. But that's a far cry from a very typical and very old complaint that has no real meaning behind it.

CrappyDom -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 6:58:48 AM)
Twice, LA doesn't state she was there (she does call herself a kid after all) but her view does accuractely reflect what I have learned from people I know who were in the San Francisco scene in the "old days" There ARE contemporary sources for such information and it is clear she has read them and others. If you want to get up on a high horse, make sure you do it to somebody who deserves it next time.

caitlyn -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 7:27:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirAndGentleman When I stated out in BDSM some 25 years ago the first thing that I learned was that for any BDSM relationship to work there are a few basic rules these are Honesty, Trust, Safety and Open mindedness. Maybe we should change the letters from BDSM to HTSO.[;)]

JohnWarren -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 7:29:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The good ole days weren't really that good. Enjoy the feeling of superiority though. Us darn kids who got no respect and no sense of responsibility will keep going until we get old enough to start talking about how great everything was "back in our day." Headline of your profile: LuckyAlbatross Female Switch, 26, Baltimore, Maryland Now i am not picking on you, nor saying this SirAndGentleman is right or wrong but; this guy is specifically speaking of 25 years ago, correct? Ok, i am no Euclid of Alexandria but i can add and subtract. Twenty six minus twenty five equals one. You were in the scene when you were only a year old? And you remember it? My point is this; at best you heard second hand accounts of "the good old days", therefore you really are not in a position to judge, you were not there. I was, right there in your good old home town of Baltimore. I remember the gay leather bars on Broadway, the Unicorn down on Boston Street. Some things were better, some were worse; we straight folk were accepted on the edges of the scene occasionally, sometimes even welcomed, though we were more of a presence on Baltimore's famous Block in places like the 2 O'clock club and the Gaity Show Bar. Develop some tolerance, one day you too will be one of us" old timers" and want somebody to respectfully listen to your version of the good old days. Each generation goes through this; we need to remember that and ask intelligent questions and hear their stories with an open mind. You would be amazed at what the previous generation has to say sometimes. Most of all you need to bear in mind that someday YOU will be the old timer. I believe in cosmic karma, eventually those young whippersnappers could be poking fun at you while you bitch about them; hopefully you will find someone to listen respectfully to your tales. I was there. Leather bar/Triangle Club in Providence. Pre-AIDS Hellfire in NYC. Got the t-shirt and she's right. "The good ole days weren't really that good." I don't find LA at all disrespectful of people regardless of age, but she can be a little short when people try to create a world that never existed so they can proclaim how much better they are than the new folks.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 7:47:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren I don't find LA at all disrespectful of people regardless of age, but she can be a little short when people try to create a world that never existed so they can proclaim how much better they are than the new folks. Hey hey, let's not bring my height into this! Seriously, I appreciate your perspective.

badpaliden -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 8:15:22 AM)
Hmm so Has the internet killed the VALUES of bdsm? I thought THAT was the question? I only brought up the past to try to show that its stil the same now. If YOU have honor then your gonna be honorable and that shows through, as well as thruthful and all the other things we say we value in this lifestyle(course its just me ,but I find thatI value the samethings in my "nilla" life too!) I seem to find MORE contact with like minded peeps with the internet than I ever could in the past! I Do have a sort of second or addendum to this thread tho... Just what do we al agree on as being those values we are discussing? Are We talking MY true values? Might not be your values,eh?

amayos -> RE: Has the Internet killed the True values of BDSM (5/4/2006 8:22:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirAndGentleman When I stated out in BDSM some 25 years ago the first thing that I learned was that for any BDSM relationship to work there are a few basic rules these are Honesty, Trust, Safety and Open mindedness. I have found very few on the Internet who live by these values and seem to think that BDSM is just a game. For me the Internet has devalued BDSM and the values that it stood for. But I can also see that for a few who understand theses rules BDSM and the Internet could be a good thing so lets debate all the issues. I wasn't practicing BDSM twenty five years ago (I was just starting to develop an interest in it at the age of ten), so I have no point of reference about what has gone on before. One thing I can certainly say is that I do things the way I wish; I don't need to be validated by community standards, and I feel many others are of the same mindset. Having said that, I feel the internet without doubt has simultaneously diffused both knowledge and misinformation about BDSM. There are in fact a lot of games being played and illusions being chased, but this is ultimately more due to the spread of BDSM's popularity among a broader number of people. Those who would otherwise never naturally find their way to this behavior and way of life are doing so now as it has become disseminated as some chimeric and kinky-hip form of "alternative lifestyle".

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