RE: Never Lied? (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 6:38:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

and what real man doesn't enjoy sex more that was obtained under subterfuge?

Uh what poise said...I've been around long enough to know you're playing the devils advocate/joker right now. At least I hope you are.




osf -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 6:43:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

and what real man doesn't enjoy sex more that was obtained under subterfuge?

Uh what poise said...I've been around long enough to know you're playing the devils advocate/joker right now. At least I hope you are.




just think of the bragging rights




Icarys -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 6:46:16 AM)

quote:

just think of the bragging rights

You're welcome to them.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 7:16:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I took it as a joke Ishtarr.


BINGO!!![;)]




RCdc -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 7:58:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
In your mind, can you lie by telling the truth (in other words, is all deception lying)?


No and no.

The other day a gentleman stopped in front of my apartment building. He was interested in the vacant apartment across the street. I was outside getting out of my car having just returned home. He asked me "Is this a quiet street?". I could have replied "Yes, sir this is a quiet street." and that would have been a truthful answer to his question. It is a generally quiet street.

I instead replied "Sir, my apartment was broken into five months ago, I am moving out shortly at the end of my lease term and I carry a loaded handgun with me at all times.". At that point I turned sideways so that he could see the loaded 9mm resting in the crook of my left elbow. Unsurprisingly, he thanked me and beat a hasty retreat out of the neighborhood.

The first answer did not tell him the whole story - it was a truthful yet deceptive. It was not a lie. A lie is a lie. The truth is the truth even if it is not the whole truth we hear about in our courts of law. Hell, you cannot even tell the whole truth in a court of law even though you take an oath to do so. You can only answer the questions truthfully as they are posed to you. And they are sometimes posed to elicit a truthful deception from you.


See this is fab and what I was thinking of when I said that 'deception' had to be defined first in order to be able to (truthfully) answer. I just couldn't put it down in words like you just did.




Icarys -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 8:24:05 AM)

quote:

See this is fab and what I was thinking of when I said that 'deception' had to be defined first in order to be able to (truthfully) answer. I just couldn't put it down in words like you just did.

I find it hard to believe you've been at a loss for the right words or words period for that matter.[8D]




LadyRian -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 2:57:10 PM)

"- Have there been times in your past where you've failed to measure up to your own ethical standards for yourself? "

Yes. Most definitely. in one case I  compromised my principles for someone else, and I learned my lesson very well.  I take full responsibility for my behaviour,  but I am sickened to this day that I failed to live up to my own standards in this particular case. 


"- In your mind, can you lie by telling the truth (in other words, is all deception lying)? "

I don't think you can lie by telling the truth, the nature of a lie is untruth, so the truth logically cannot be a lie, as I see it. I'd have to ask you, though, how can you deceive someone by telling the truth?

The only way I could see that as deception would be telling  the partial truth. And what sort of deception are we talking about here?  Deception to save your life, such as telling a mugger " I haven't got any money" when they try to rob you, or deceiving someone who loves and trusts you?


"- In your mind, is there some special ritual that is required before it becomes "your word"?"

Nope. I personally don't have any special rituals like that,.






Elisabella -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 3:11:27 PM)


quote:



I don't think you can lie by telling the truth, the nature of a lie is untruth, so the truth logically cannot be a lie, as I see it. I'd have to ask you, though, how can you deceive someone by telling the truth?


"What did you think of dinner?"
"It was great" = It was great that you went out of your way to cook for me but the food was absolutely terrible.




KnightofMists -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 3:29:21 PM)


quote:


- Have there been times in your past where you've failed to measure up to your own ethical standards for yourself?

yes.... I haven't reached perfection yet.... but I am still trying>

quote:


- In your mind, can you lie by telling the truth (in other words, is all deception lying)?


No.... but the true words spoke can be spoken in a manner with the intent to deceive.... I just call that Deception.. not lying.... Therefore, I am rather careful listening to what another says and "Doesn't" say!.... for they maybe lying and/or they maybe deceiving, then of course it maybe neither.


quote:


- In your mind, is there some special ritual that is required before it becomes "your word"?



No special ritual... I try always to speak with an intent to give a clear and honest understanding of my perception when talking with others. But the key word is try.. for well... as I said... I am still working on perfection!




BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 6:03:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

Everyone has lied. Someone who says that they have 'never' lied is totally up themselves and it is a massive turn off.
I honestly will not talk to anyone who says they have 'never lied'.
What bullshit!



What if... hypothetically... I had the same problem as Pinocchio?



I imagine it would be fairly obvious if you were lying.




porcelaine -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 6:14:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

- Have there been times in your past where you've failed to measure up to your own ethical standards for yourself?
- In your mind, can you lie by telling the truth (in other words, is all deception lying)?
- In your mind, is there some special ritual that is required before it becomes "your word"?


Greetings Jeff,

In response to the questions posed:

a. Yes

b. Of course. Especially when I'm spinning what I'd really like to say. There are instances when I shouldn't verbalize the murmurings in my head for obvious reasons. I don't believe honesty is an adequate excuse for being a brute.

c. Not a ritual per se but a willingness to honor my commitments and be forthright if/when that doesn't happen. I have a real pet peeve about people that can't acknowledge their mistakes. In my opinion an ability to see your shortcomings cultivates self awareness and sensitivity towards others in the process.

Namaste,

~porcelaine




Darkfeather -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 7:16:50 PM)

Uhm, first off shouldn't you define the word Lie?


lie 1 (l)
intr.v. lay (l), lain (ln), ly·ing (lng), lies
1. To be or place oneself at rest in a flat, horizontal, or recumbent position; recline: "He lay under a tree to sleep."
2. To be placed on or supported by a surface that is usually horizontal: "Dirty dishes lay on the table." See Usage Note at lay1.
3. To be or remain in a specified condition: "The dust has lain undisturbed for years." "He lay sick in bed."
4.a. To exist; reside: "Our sympathies lie with the plaintiff."
b. To consist or have as a basis. Often used with in: "The strength of his performance lies in his training."
5. To occupy a position or place: "The lake lies beyond this hill."
6. To extend: "Our land lies between these trees and the river."
7. To be buried in a specified place.
8. Law To be admissible or maintainable.
9. Archaic To stay for a night or short while.
n.
1. The manner or position in which something is situated.
2. A haunt or hiding place of an animal.
3. Sports The position of a golf ball that has come to a stop.
Phrasal Verbs:
lie down
To do little or nothing: "He's lying down on the job."
lie in
To be in confinement for childbirth.
lie to Nautical
To remain stationary while facing the wind.
lie with
1. To be decided by, dependent on, or up to: "The choice lies with you."
2. Archaic To have sexual intercourse with.
Idiom:
lie/lay low
1. To keep oneself or one's plans hidden.
2. To bide one's time but remain ready for action.

(first definition, though I don't think this one applies)

lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v. lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: "Appearances often lie."
v.tr.
To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods: "You have lied yourself into trouble."
Idiom:
lie through one's teeth
To lie outrageously or brazenly.

Can someone never tell a lie, sure. Is not telling one truth but telling another, a lie? No. If your wife asks you does this dress make her ass look fat, do you tell her the truth, and say yes, or do you tell her another truth and say the color looks good on her? Each is a truth, but one will get you punched in the face. There is no deceit in telling one truth over another, just as there is no deceit in choosing to not answer at all.

But the notion that everybody lies is a falsehood, because not everyone lies well. The notion of lying predicates the lie be successful. The person you lie to has to believe you. When a kid tells his teacher a dog ate his homework, is it a lie? When a husband tells his wife he worked late at the office, is it a lie? In the absence of proof, it all comes down to belief. To this I say there are just some people who cannot lie well. O.J Simpson, did he do it? Who knows, but if he did he is a damn good liar. Lindsay Lohan, did she do it? Who knows but she isn't a good liar. Point is, there are some of us bad liars who just give up and always tell the truth. Its easier than being in the hot seat all the time.




FukinTroll -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 8:02:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

Everyone has lied. Someone who says that they have 'never' lied is totally up themselves and it is a massive turn off.
I honestly will not talk to anyone who says they have 'never lied'.
What bullshit!



What if... hypothetically... I had the same problem as Pinocchio?



I imagine it would be fairly obvious if you were lying.



Exactly! Have you thought of the ENDLESS possibilities of that?




NuevaVida -> RE: Never Lied? (2/10/2011 8:19:16 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~

Of course I haven't always measured up to my own standards of myself.  That's just being human.

I also don't believe omission is a lie, but I do believe it's not being fully honest.

That said, I try my best to live an honest life, beginning with being honest with myself.  Yes, I sometimes lie.  I lie at work, I sometimes lie to my mom, and I might lie to people who don't have a major importance importance in my life.  It just depends on the topic at hand.

I don't lie to my owner.  And this has brought about some interesting discussions and challenges, but regardless, the truth will be spoken. 




osf -> RE: Never Lied? (2/11/2011 6:31:33 AM)

real men when caught with their pants down, LIE!!!!




BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Never Lied? (2/11/2011 4:15:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

Everyone has lied. Someone who says that they have 'never' lied is totally up themselves and it is a massive turn off.
I honestly will not talk to anyone who says they have 'never lied'.
What bullshit!



What if... hypothetically... I had the same problem as Pinocchio?



I imagine it would be fairly obvious if you were lying.



Exactly! Have you thought of the ENDLESS possibilities of that?



Like dumping you because you lied? Or...dumping you because you lied? Totally Endless.




FukinTroll -> RE: Never Lied? (2/11/2011 5:18:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackTigerDragon

Like dumping you because you lied? Or...dumping you because you lied? Totally Endless.



NVM... if you have to explain the joke it is no longer funny.... soooo, Nascar maybe?





IronBear -> RE: Never Lied? (2/11/2011 7:39:28 PM)

Considering my past areas of employment, and the long periods I spent "Under Cover" I would never claim I have never lied or will lie again. Ask about my career I will tell you only what I want you to knw and no more. Other lives are involved of who many are still out there in the cold. they need to come home to the fire and warmth. Deception has been part of my trade-craft and it has left me on the outer from where I would prefer to be these days, still my choice so I'll live with it.




Michael75 -> RE: Never Lied? (2/12/2011 2:03:25 AM)

I make no odds that if you rush me for an answer to a question I will give you a convenient one that may or may not be true. Honesty isn't a reflex thing for me it's a decision, that I will make, but give me a moment to make it please.

Also I will simplify. For instance, if I choose to tell someone about my income I will add (currently) £28 because that is a much simpler number to say.

To some people, these two things make me a terrible liar. To my mind those people have issues of their own.




TotalDiscipline -> RE: Never Lied? (2/12/2011 3:16:13 AM)



quote:

Uhm, first off shouldn't you define the word Lie?


no..we know what we talk about

in a normal discussion ..you don't define things al the time to0.. with a dictionary
[:D]




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